The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[piosenniel]

Folwren

Dorran's age corrected. (though it was rather fun to think of Athwen as a cradle-robber! )

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EVERYONE

The posts are all on the RPG Thread.

The game will open Monday, July 3 -- very early, Pacific Time, U.S. (when I get home from work)


~*~ Pio

[Tevildo]

My apologies, Folwren. I have finally made the correction in the profile.

Many thanks Pio for setting up the thread and giving us the opening date. Durelin, Child - I will be back on Tuesday.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Here is the list of current "away" dates that I have. If I've missed yours or put something down in error, please let me know and I will add.

July

• Novnarwen: a few days in late July
• Folwren: July 10-14
• Brinniel: July 16-28
• Hilde: July 8-9
• Firefoot: July 20-29
• Nogrod: July 18-20

August

• Hilde: possible short dates in August
• Nogrod: first week of August
• Folwren: August 13-28
• Child: August 23-28
• Regin: August 23-30
• Tevildo: roughly the last week in August
  
  
• Thinlomien: joining the game in August

So far it looks as if our biggest problem will be late in August with at least four out.

I have not listed the coming weekend since we already know who will be missing: Tevildo, Child, Folwren, Regin, Novnarwen, plus Hilde for Saturday and Sunday.

[Firefoot]

I mentioned this to Durelin but I guess it didn't make its way here - I'll be gone from roughly the 20-29 of July.

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EDIT -- OK, you're on the list

~*~ Pio

[Nogrod]

I'll be away some three-four days in the middle of July (between 15th and 20th, about). We're getting into middle of nowhere with Lommy & her friends + her little sister...

Was there a plan how the orcs start posting? The slaves start both groups as one as they have met, but where are the orcs when the game begins?

********************

EDIT

Thanks, Nogrod. I added the dates. - Child of the 7th Age

[Child of the 7th Age]

Maybe the Orcs meet and set out from the redezvous point where Regin's character Ishkur is already stationed? Perhaps they are afraid about being followed?

Since we are physically behind the other two bands, let's assume we were on a plantation that was slightly more towards the east on the northern border of the Sea. That means we head west and north in the game. (Undómë mentioned walking west in her post, I think, and Regin mentioned north so we'll combine those and go northwest.) Let's stick fairly close to the banks of the Sea to begin with and then swing north once we've cleared the Sea, thus following in the footsteps of the slaves and fellowships.

Unlike the fellowship and slaves, I don't think the orcs have a clear idea of where they're trying to get to (other than the direction). They basically want to find someplace to the north where there is good game and not too many other Orcs around to bother them.

Regin, Undómë, Nogrod, Firefoot - if you have other ideas, hope you'll share them on the thread or by pm. I am away this weekend till Tuesday, and Regin's name is also on the away list.

Nogrod and Firefoot - I definitely hope you'll feel free to pitch in and post with your minor characters since we have just two posters who took orcs as major characters. I am especially looking forward to seeing Firefoot's 9 year-old orc.

[Durelin]

Thanks to my lovely family, I will be gone during the day tomorrow, though I will be back in the evening.

I will have a post ready sometime tonight/very early tomorrow morning (EST time...it's about 9:55 PM here now).

Is it alright if I PM you, Pio, with a post to go on the RPG thread when you open it tomorrow, as long as I can get it to you before it's open (otherwise I will just post it on the game thread if you open it early morning)?

I wanted to get a post up just to help get things started.

Sorry everyone for such late notice.

[Brinniel]

I just found out I'll be getting back from vacation a day earlier than planned, so I'll be gone from the 16-28, but I'll be around for the 29th.

-----------------------

EDIT: Change made to the vacation list. ~*~ Pio

[piosenniel]

Durelin

The RPG thread is now open for posts

[piosenniel]

Everyone

For those of you writing for more than one character - please put the character's name you are writing for at the top of the post, in bold.

So, for example - Nogrod would put Hadith at the top of the posts for his slave character, and Gwerr at the top of the posts for his Orc.


Thanks!

~*~ Pio

[Durelin]

Very sorry for my little outburst about posting! I panicked. Luckily, I somehow have time this morning (well, I'm making time...).

Thank you, Pio!

[Nogrod]

I've posted in too and just two things...

Durelin: Check if what I wrote about the general order is okay. I think the more experienced people would have to have teached the newcomers some basics. It would be folly if the 15 would have f.ex. made all the hunting, guarding etc. for all the 65.

Firefoot: If my description of Johari at the camp is in any way incorrect or twisted, contact me and I'll change what needs to be changed. The place I left our characters can surely lead to Johari scorning the stupid brat, but there might be a chance for some discussion. If so, should we plan it together?

[Firefoot]

Looks perfectly fine to me.

[Durelin]

Nogrod - Your post is excellent. Bringing up the training of some of the young men was really great, so, definitely no problems here. Perhaps Beloan will pass on words of praise about Hadith to Khamir. And that may or may not be good for the young man.

[Nogrod]

Okay. The orcs are on the move also.

There were some difficulties to write the first "on the thread" post because there were so many things undecided and some conflicting accounts of things on the first posts.

I've boldly taken a stance on some of the undecided issues and tried to formulate something of a compromise to settle the discrepancies.

Feel free to disagree and I will be ready to change what should be changed.

[Nogrod]

Orcs
By way of explanation and some questions...


Makdush and "a couple of his fellow Uruk-hai" is said to join the rebellion. Ishkur has been told to join the rebellion. Gwerr is said to be one of the planners.

So we need more planners to the rebellion.

I've come up with one, named Colagar, and would like to stick with only one (we could correct the last sentence in Gwerr's History from "one of the planners" to "the other planner". Just to reduce the number of important characters that are not actually written by anyone. In such a small group it would be harder to write if there are lots of important characters that are "non-written" characters.


It seems that Gwerr and Ishkur are the only "written" age-old orcs. This Colagar should be one too, as I think these age-old orcs would like to stick with themselves and trust only those of "reasonable" experience (call it a couple of thousand years or something). But that should mean that Ishkur and Gwerr probably know each other in advance (some thousands years of common experiences and fates should make one at least able to relate to the other one ). I think they should not be too good "friends" though, as one of the goals of this game was to see what the orcs could be capable of.

So Regin: how about we start with the assumption that both Gwerr and Ishkur have a shared past (well not necessarily been at the same platoons or something, but having beeen involved in the same battles and hardships - and ended up on the same plantation) and would thence be inclined to trust each other somewhat - at least over the others. Colagar could be something like Gwerr's "mate", but as you see from the first post I made, their relation is not the happiest one. That would set us the opportunity to go and see the ways how our characters could come to know each other better during this little trek and see what comes out of it: disaster or friendship - or something in between?

But what about the overall orc-gang?

There are seven written characters. Of these two are very-very old and one is an Uruk (3/15). Then we have the around thirty females (3/15) and the male kid (1/15). That makes 7/15 (surprise!). Of the others Child talks about a few Uruks. If that would be something like three and then we count Colagar, the age-old one whom I have already written into the story (as the second planner), we will have 4/15 more. That leaves us only with three orcs remaining unknown. Any ideas? Or should Child's "a few" mean only two? If there are four Uruks in the group of fifteen, it would be hard enough for the others...

Oh, why am I counting these things? Well, clearly there will be something like test of powers or at least scheming towards it between the male Uruks and the male orcs (at least the three older orcs), so it would be nice to know the balance and therefore the overall rest of the party. And surely the bunch of females we have along wouldn't stay neutral in here? With such a small gang, all the roles are important (yes, we don't need to know every person in the 65-person slave gang, but here it would be good to know them).

So any ideas?

PS. Firefoot and Regin. I've made the numbers in my first post such that you can choose yourselves whether your minor characters had been on this "large gang" that ended up with the guards and hacked/slipped away with Gwerr and Colagar or whether you came to the meeting place by yourselves...

[Durelin]

Nogrod - First I want to note that I posted a bit concerning Hadith, and wanted to make sure what I did was alright. I went ahead and assumed that any weapon's Hadith used were only 'borrowed' and he had not been exactly given one of his own. If you thought otherwise and/or find that in any way absurd, just let me know and I can edit.

And concerning the Orc group - I do see your point about knowing the numbers of the different types of Orcs especially. I'm sure at least one or two of the Orcs will be considering the options they have when it comes to bleeding each other. And I imagine we want things to be 'even' in some way, so the Orcs are more discouraged from just fighting each other.

Child should be back today or tomorrow, and you'll/we'll have to check with her about some of things. The Orcs are more her field because of her character, and I'm not going to say anything for sure without consulting her.

Personally, I think four Uruks versus...about 8 regular Orc males? (Sorry, I'm more uncertain about the numbers than you are) I think those are fairly even, though I may be downplaying things a bit.

And as for old Orcs...well, I can't say I've considered geriatric Orcs before... I think it would be plenty believable that they'd still be able to hold their own pretty well.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod - First I want to note that I posted a bit concerning Hadith, and wanted to make sure what I did was alright. I went ahead and assumed that any weapon's Hadith used were only 'borrowed' and he had not been exactly given one of his own. If you thought otherwise and/or find that in any way absurd, just let me know and I can edit.

Yes, I did see your earlier post of not trusting the newcomers with weapons - so no problem here. That works fine with me - and sounds reasonable from the more experienced slaves point of view.

And concerning the Orc group - I do see your point about knowing the numbers of the different types of Orcs especially. I'm sure at least one or two of the Orcs will be considering the options they have when it comes to bleeding each other.

Child should be back today or tomorrow, and you'll/we'll have to check with her about some of things. The Orcs are more her field because of her character, and I'm not going to say anything for sure without consulting her.

Personally, I think four Uruks versus...about 8 regular Orc males? (Sorry, I'm more uncertain about the numbers than you are) I think those are fairly even, though I may be downplaying things a bit.

Surely we don't want a bloodbath to begin with, but that thought must be nagging quite many of them, I suppose - considering the rivalry and mutual scorn between the "basic" orcs and the Uruks - adding the twist of the subgroup of age-old orcs within the group of normal orcs with their experience...

But this 8-4 setting would mean that the only females are those who are written for... (and one of the 8 males is 9-years old). I think there should be females also among the orcs no one writes for and maybe another very young one? That's why I was worried about four Uruk-males in the company. We could of course decide it that way, but then it would hang on the benevolence of the Uruks (or the utmost craftiness of Ishkur, Gwerr and Colagar + the determination of the females to take their sides and to fight for it together) to make the balance in the possible confrontation? Either option might be quite far-fetched, but surely we could try them... But then there would not be any balance to start with and so encouraging the stronger party to seek supremacy early on (which we do not want, I suppose/hope).

So any ideas? Child? Others?

[Folwren]

I'm sorry, everybody. . .I was going to be here this morning, but as it turns out, I wasn't, and I'm only here now, fifteen minutes before dinner time. I am just checking in now and later I'll have to read the game and write a post. Hopefully I'll be able to do it all this evening.

The reason I'm eleven hours later than I intended to be was because our horse, in another pasture for camp this summer, injured himself very, very badly. If any of you would, please pray, 'cause he'll need everything he can get. The cut is on his right hind leg and is very nasty and very dangerous to his health - and life, even.

Till later, all.

-- Folwren

[Durelin]

I'm so sorry to hear that, Folwren! That's horrible!

Don't worry about being gone; I just hope everything will be alright. Our prays are definitely with you and your horse.

[Nogrod]

Folwren, my praying for you and your horse would probably not be counted as I am no christian, but I will have my thoughts with you and your horse. They may not help in that framework, but I hope they might comfort a bit.

So sorry to hear that.

I wish your horse all the best.
(How clumsy one is with a foreign language... but I hope you got the idea)

[Firefoot]

My thoughts and prayers are with you, Folwren.

(How clumsy one is with a foreign language... but I hope you got the idea)

Don't I feel silly... I knew, of course, that you lived in Finland - but I never followed the thought logically through that English isn't the native language up there. I admire you people whose native language isn't English and I can't even tell. That's seriously amazing.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Folwren,

I am sorry to hear this. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

_____________________

I have just gotten back and must read over the discussion thread and the game. I promise to post in the story and to respond to questions on this thread, hopefully tomorrow.

[Tevildo]

Folwren,

I am really sorry to hear this. I hope things turn out well.

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I just arrived home and will look at the game tomorrow.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I will keep both horse and family in prayer, Folwren.

[Firefoot]

I'm a little bit confused about the Orcs' situation. I had assumed that they would be skipping two months from the first posts just like the rest of the groups, but Nogrod's post seems to immediately follow them. If they did skip two months... what have they been doing in the mean time? If they had just kept travelling, they would be far ahead of the slaves/Gondorian group...

[Regin Hardhammer]

So Regin: how about we start with the assumption that both Gwerr and Ishkur have a shared past (well not necessarily been at the same platoons or something, but having beeen involved in the same battles and hardships - and ended up on the same plantation) and would thence be inclined to trust each other somewhat - at least over the others. Colagar could be something like Gwerr's "mate", but as you see from the first post I made, their relation is not the happiest one. That would set us the opportunity to go and see the ways how our characters could come to know each other better during this little trek and see what comes out of it: disaster or friendship - or something in between?

I think it's fine that our characters have had some sort of past relationship. I'll make sure to include that in my next post. In regard to the general question of conflict between the orcs and the uruk-hai, I think there will definitely be some of that in the game, both in terms of personalities and vying for political power within the orc group.

However, I do think that some of those concerns will be swept away when the orcs are presented with a group of slaves and men from the west. Whether they like it or not, the confrontation will force them to learn to cooperate with each other.

- Regin

[Durelin]

I'm a little bit confused about the Orcs' situation. I had assumed that they would be skipping two months from the first posts just like the rest of the groups, but Nogrod's post seems to immediately follow them. If they did skip two months... what have they been doing in the mean time? If they had just kept travelling, they would be far ahead of the slaves/Gondorian group...

I think we're assuming that the Orcs' first posts actually occured after the two month skip for the Fellowship and the slaves.

Is that what you were thinking, Child? (Another question for you, sorry. Please, take your time responding. )

I'm sorry for the confusion...time is an odd thing, particularly in games.

[Nogrod]

= Durelin
I'm sorry for the confusion...time is an odd thing, particularly in games.

Yes it seems, but in #126 Child was encouraging us to start posting to get the orcs on the way.

And surely it's better that we get also the orcs on the move so that the characters have time to get to know each other and create relations before meeting with challenges?

[Child of the 7th Age]

This is not something that Durelin and I have talked about at length, but this is my perception. Durelin -- if you see things differently, please pitch in and we can hammer this out.

I have been involved in a number of games that initially had two or three separate story lines. Generally, we have not made an effort to coordinate the time line for these different groups until the actual point when the characters met up in the story. Thus, the fellowship/slaves might be settling down in camp for the night while the orcs are posting in the morning (or vice versa). It might be day one for the Orcs on the trail and day three for the other group.

The same is true for the two-month gap. You are certainly correct that the Orcs left their plantation (not necessarily the same one from which the slaves escaped) months later than the slaves. This is why the Orc posts were put at the end of the first posts....after those of the slaves and those of the fellowship leaving Gondor.

If it would make things clearer, I will gladly append a heading to the first orc post (I believe Regin's) that would simply say "Two months later"... or some such indication that time has passed.

I think we have very good precedent for treating time like this: the example of Tolkien himself. LotR consists of a series of interlaced stories. Tolkien did keep strict account of the various days the different groups spent on their activties in his outlines, but he was very loose about this in the story itself. We don't get an exact accounting with days and nights matching up purposely between Sam and Frodo, for example, and those of the rest of the group.

I think this loose correspondence will work till the point when the groups actually meet. I do have some thoughts on the Orc situation and will post when I get back from my taxi duties as mom.

[Nogrod]

So as a rule of thumb the writers of the slave characters are encouraged to move on to the next day every once in a while (if nothing particular is happening f.ex.) and the orc-writers should try to be careful not to be hasty in changing the days in their narration? So like rapid time (slaves) vs. slow time (orcs)?

[Firefoot]

Okay, sounds good.

[Durelin]

So as a rule of thumb the writers of the slave characters are encouraged to move on to the next day every once in a while (if nothing particular is happening f.ex.) and the orc-writers should try to be careful not to be hasty in changing the days in their narration? So like rapid time (slaves) vs. slow time (orcs)?

Really, there is no rule of thumb, except that the Orcs can't catch up to the slaves before the Fellowship does, or anything of that sort. Time moves as it best fits each group and what is going on in each group, though there are a few limitations to this (such as the Orcs not wanting to catch up to or get far ahead of the slaves group, or something of that nature). So, the 'rapid time vs. slow time' scenario that you suggested could happen, but so could others.

At least, that is my understanding. I've done...well, more than I feel like counting RPGs that have several groups doing their own thing all at once. Day and night might be different for the two, but somehow it all works out in the end.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Day and night might be different for the two, but somehow it all works out in the end.

I do agree with this.

What I meant was, that if the orcs have shorter journey before the meeting of the groups than the slaves, then they can't afford changing the day/night phases all the time as the slaves can if they wish. Or something. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear now...

But that opened up a new question. How do we indeed change days or make leaps in them (at least the slaves probably will have to do some)?

Leaps surely should be proposed by Durelin / Child I guess, but how just getting people to the night or morning or whatever? What I was thinking is that we have so few people writing at the moment that if someone suggests in this thread f.ex. that should we turn over to a night-camp, how many people should confirm that it is okay? If we wait for everyone's consent it might take a week (RL)?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Yes, I agree.

The only thing I ask is that the orcs hold back from seeing or interacting with members of the slaves/fellowship (and vice-versa as well). I promise that will come soon enough, and one of the game founders, or someone we designate will do a post that initiates the contact. Then you will be free to follow up and push the action forward in whatever crazy ways you can think of.

Just a comment about something Nogrod said about the conflict between the Orcs and Uruk-hai. Certainly, there will be some of that. Shall we make it 3 male Uruks (all excellent soldiers), 8 male orcs, and the rest women? (That will give us one female who is "not written".)

But I think that Regin said something which is key. Once there is contact between the two groups---orcs versus slaves/fellowship---I have a feeling that initial confrontation (peaceful or not) is going to loom so large that former splits in each group (orc versus uruk, slave escapee versus ex-slave) will begin to shrink a bit. Whether they like it or not, Uruks will be compelled to cooperate with orcs, and ex-slaves with escapees (that is unless the slaves prefer to be eaten by the orcs. ) It's amazing how common difficulties can engender cooperation.

Let me just say that the numbers for this game were chosen very carefully. We wanted a situation where no group could easily kill off another. Since Uruks are stronger and have far more military experience, "15" seemed about the right number in relation to 65 slaves. The same is true for the numbers within each group: uruks have the upper hand in strength and command experience just as the ex-slaves do, but neither can get along without the corresponding "lesser" folk who are present in greater numbers. We were essentially trying to set up a scenario where even the most anatagonistic folk would realize that cooperation may have some advantages over annihilation at the hands of the "others".

[Nogrod]

Orcs

Child asked me to make a list of the whole orc-refugee group. With Child's numbers in the post above it would make it like this:

"Basic" orcs

4 females:
Zagra ~36 (Undómë, major character)
Mazhg ~36 (Undómë, major character)
Ungolt 28 (Regin, minor character)
no-name ? (no player)

8 males:
Ishkur millenia old (Regin, major character)
Gwerr millenia old (Nogrod, minor character)
Colagar millenia old (no player)
Grask 9 ( Firefoot, minor character)
Zuhut 40+ (no player)
Griwzan 40+ (no player)
no-name ? (no player)
no-name ? (no player)

The Uruks

3 males:
Makdush 35 (Child, minor character)
no-name ? (no player)
no-name ? (no player)

I hope this helps you out a bit.

Just a thought on that list. The remaining male orcs that are nameless and ageless as yet should probably be adult orcs (whatever it is by orc standards 30-40-50, but probably not those millenia olds as the three in the company), just to keep the balance. But how about the nameless female? She could be anything, maybe another child-orc or something. Finders keepers?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks so much, Nogrod. All those orcs were beginning to run together in my mind.

Folwren - Glad to see you. I've edited my post very slightly so that Athwen is standing next to Dorran, and he has beckoned both of them to come and look at the stream (though he doesn't expect her to tell him what that crazy thing is!).

[Folwren]

Sounds good.

Do you yourself have any idea of what the thing is? What is it made out of? I wanted to mention at least what it was made of - wood, stone, shell, whatever, but I didn't know what you had in mind. Tevildo may need to know.

-- Folwren

[Child of the 7th Age]

Good idea! I already contacted Tevildo to clue him in and have sent you a pm. Please feel free to edit your own post to be in agreement.

[Nogrod]

I'm flooding the thread again... (don't worry, I'll be having lots of busier days ahead soon, so this will calm down)

But. I've taken a stance on how the group of slaves is conducting itself in the end of Hadith's post. Check if you agree. I'll surely change it if you think it's a wrong perception...

Durelin: hopefully you didn't have any exact ideas about the blade Khamir threw Hadith. I have taken a liberty for Hadith to examine it...