Password

[Mithalwen]

Gah Menegroth... I l8oked at Esgalduin and discounted it when I was looking at rivers ... Them split and reversed around negro, Spanish for black.

[Mithalwen]

Is the password Morwen taking sucessive letters from each clue which would mean that 6 either ends or has sixth letter N

[Pervinca Took]

Numenor, perhaps? Under water.

Or Atalante? Then the N is in the right place.

And talent = gift.

"A" isn't a compass point, though.

Andor means land of the gift, and is a kenning for Numenor. I think Andune is also a name for Numenor. But I think Atalante refers specifically to Numenor once it is drowned (and hence under water).

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Numenor, perhaps? Under water.

Or Atalante? Then the N is in the right place.

And talent = gift.

"A" isn't a compass point, though.

Andor means land of the gift, and is a kenning for Numenor. I think Andune is also a name for Numenor. But I think Atalante refers specifically to Numenor once it is drowned (and hence under water).

A could be the one bit and the e the point

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

A could be the one bit and the e the point

A could be one, but there's only one E and it would be needed for the word "talent."

6. One point surround gift under water

Unless gift just refers to the land itself being a gift.

[Mithalwen]

Maybe a sound like?

[Galadriel55]

All correct. Over to Mith.

Atalante is the answer - "one" and "point" surround "gift" - a and e surround talent. I probably should have said that it's a sound-alike. Apologies.

[Mithalwen]

Nvm we got there ...itcwas a challenge and I like the offset password which made it that much harder, right now to find some wriggly ones for you!

[Mithalwen]

1 BALIN Island has a point for grave inhabitant.
2 ARAGORN Tolkien, in short, twisted with a cloth and made a king.
3 UILOS Bloomer you heard before mixing soil.
4 GILDOR Elf lord distressed following a soldier.
5 LEGOLAS Not Galion though it sounds he was like him!
6 IORETH Riot he rearraanged for her.
7 RODNOR Dance backwards after right elf

[Pervinca Took]

6. Ioreth?

Are we looking for a wiggly/non-standard arrangement of the password?

EDIT: 5. I'll have a guess at Legolas - as it sounds like legless, which is what Galion was/became in the chapter he appears in.

[Mithalwen]

Both correct and nothing wriggly

[Pervinca Took]

3. Uilos - one of the elvish names for simbelmyne?

[Mithalwen]

That is the one... well done

[Pervinca Took]

That's my elvish lesson for the day! I'd only heard of Uilos in place names, but seeing "sounds like you" and the letters of soil, I looked it up on the offchance.

[Mithalwen]

I was looking up flower names for something else and thought it might come in handy..need to give you a bit of a challenge especially when indulging my weakness for that sort of clue.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

1 Island has a point for grave inhabitant.

Wonder if that is WIGHT (barrow-wight, Isle of Wight). I can't account for the point, though. Unless it's a geographical feature - the Needles or something point - it's a fair few years since I was there.

EDIT: There's Nodes Point, which I've heard of since, although I never visited it. (Point tends to make me think a compass point first).

[Mithalwen]

Although i am a five minute wal from a splendid view of the Needles it isnt Wight. .Have another go.

[Mithalwen]

In response to th edit. Yes you need a compass point.

[Pervinca Took]

Still working on that, but going to have a guess at BAUGLIR for the password.

[Mithalwen]

Correct.Which should help with a couple at least.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah good! I only guessed it because I was convinced that R (for right) must start the last clue. And I had to stare at it quite a bit first as well.

[Mithalwen]

Yes I hadnt intended it as the password but had an ugal and ungoliant was too long! And yes righy did indicate starting with R .

[Pervinca Took]

Gildor? GI plus "lord" rearranged.

EDIT:

2 A Tolkien, in short, twisted with a cloth and made a king.

Aragorn? - I was trying to do something with A RAG for ages - didn't think of Ron for ages because I think friends called him Ronald or John Ronald (or Tollers).

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Gildor? GI plus "lord" rearranged.

EDIT:

2 A Tolkien, in short, twisted with a cloth and made a king.

Aragorn? - I was trying to do something with A RAG for ages - didn't think of Ron for ages because I think friends called him Ronald or John Ronald (or Tollers).

Both right..yes ht seemed a bit impertinent....Ron isn't really him.

[Pervinca Took]

Sooo - elves with names beginning with R!

Tried Rumil -limu means various different things, but unfortunately none of them is a kind of dance!

EDIT:

"Rog
"Rog, Lord of the House of the Hammer of Wrath, is a noble of Gondolin in The Book of Lost Tales. Christopher Tolkien excluded him from The Silmarillion because of his name, which was judged unlikely for an Elf (cf. Balrog, "demon of might")."

(From Wikipedia).

That would be R plus "go" backwards.

[Mithalwen]

Nope it is an actual dance noun you need and it is recognisable ~ not from some remote part of patagonia which you would have to be a postgrad ethnomusicologist to know. I have never heard of Rog.

[Pervinca Took]

More searching tells me that RODNOR was the father-name of Gil-Galad.

I guess a rondo must be a dance - I know I used to come across music pieces called rondos.

[Mithalwen]

I am fairly sure it is a dance form... and alternative names for Gil-galad are another weakness of mine... which leaves you with what I thought was about the easiest of them all...

[Pervinca Took]

1 B Island has a point for grave inhabitant.

I really did think Wight was the one at first! Only grave inhabitants I can think of are barrow-wights and the Shades of Dunharrow. Unless it's something to do with he Halls of Mandos.

Well, first I tried all the islands I could find in Tolkien's world, because it seemed the most likely part to be the straight clue. Didn't find anything, so tried all the "real world" islands and anagrams of island with a view to "grave inhabitants" being the straight part.

Only other angles I can think of are the Mounds of Mundburg or the burial places in Rohan - or hobbits living in holes in the ground, which non-hobbit-folk might think are like graves.

Can't find angle for the "seriousness" meaning of grave.

Unless it's a serious inhabitant of Numenor.

[Mithalwen]

You are going adrift. Your approach was correct at first attempt else I would have given more pointers. You had identified the required elements correctly now you just have to substitute diferent options for them.

[Pervinca Took]

There's a Bone Island in Canada, and both N and E are points, and a bone is a grave inhabitant. But I can't see any Tolkien connection whatsoever! (Except for Nob backwards).

EDIT:

Balin? Bali plus N. Only came to this because I really struggled to think of graves of specific people in the books. Balin's the only one I can think of, except for the ones in Rath Dinen. Boromir had a boat burial, Theoden had a funeral, but his tomb doesn't have the same kind of dramatic significance.

[Mithalwen]

Yes! I nearly pointed out that the singular inhabitant was significant but since it was neither an obscure character nor a particularly obscure island and a very notable grave. Now if it had been plural the clue would have worked well for wights.

Anyway the thread is yours Pervinca

[Pervinca Took]

Thanks once more for great clues and a fun password!

OK - this is the standard "initial letter counts" form, except that I've jumbled up the order of the clues to make it a little more challenging. I already had four passwords ready made, as writing cryptic clues is my new hobby. So this was the only way I could do it.

I don't intend to jumble them every time (especially if the clues are hard), but let's see how it works on this occasion.

1. Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
2. Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
3. He says to partake of the vittles.
4. This chap is said to be incandescent.
5. Onomatopoeic tormenter.
6. The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
7. Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
8. Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.

[Mithalwen]

I amtempted to be evil and say Denethor for four but mor seriously I think two is Elanor
ALE backwarda plus compass point N plus OR .

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I amtempted to be evil and say Denethor for four but mor seriously I think two is Elanor
ALE backwarda plus compass point N plus OR .

Eep - never thought of that!

Elanor is correct.


REMEMBER: INITIALS FORM THE PASSWORD, BUT THE CLUES HAVE BEEN JUMBLED UP.

1. Pale hesitation around a lovely maiden.
ELANOR: Beer sent back with a point - alternatively, a flower.
3. He says to partake of the vittles.
4. This chap is said to be incandescent.
5. Onomatopoeic tormenter.
6. The Spanish wanderer meanders in Gondor.
7. Fray begins. Musketeer loses way. War ends. Lord!
8. Loose a muddled detectives’ friend; it’s brilliant against the night.

EDIT: Re Mithalwen's last clues (the Balin one, specifically), I had clearly forgotten Turin's tomb, and Thorin's resting-place. Then it made me think of the rather odd scenario of a rebodied elf returning to Middle-earth and seeing his or her grave! But I think that, apart from Luthien and Glorfindel, they all remained in Valinor once rebodied. Don't know if Glorfindel had an individual grave (I guess the end of Gondolin was a messy business), but if so, it would have been deeply buried under water or earth after the War of Wrath.

I wonder if Beren and Luthien's bodies were buried, or if they returned to the original ones where they still lay. Not sure how much time (Middle-earth time) they were in Mandos for before being sent back. Valinor and Eressea etc were always outside mortal time, weren't they? It might be oddly similar (timewise) to going back through the wardrobe from Narnia.

[Mithalwen]

My cpoy of the silmarillion isnt where i thought it was but I think Thorondor or one of the great eagles recovered his body after his fall and they built a cairn over him. I think Tolkien said that Elvish bodies decomposed in to dustnormally but I know that Miriel's body was preserved albeit in Vn Valinor and i imagine the stasis option is more likely than reembodiment in Valinor option. Gandalf seemingly was sent back to his body ... or at least that is the impression I got. Glorfindel hadel was slain did his time in Mandos and was sent back significantly later.

There is a description od a body lying like a cut flower on the grass but I forget if it was of Luthien or Iriel.
Haudh en Arwen was Finduilas IIRC. I think this might be worth a discussion in books or nn

There is an excellent RPG called Island of Sorrow which has a group of exiles visiting himring and unquiet spirits.

oh i am pondering the clues but nothing I am confident of vemturing yet.

[Pervinca Took]

I had forgotten Gandalf.

Never taken part in an RPG. Perhaps I should.

Thank you for the insights.

[Galadriel55]

5. Gollum? Named for the sound he makes.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

5. Gollum? Named for the sound he makes.

Afraid not. The key is "tormentor."

Your reasoning is correct, though.

[Mithalwen]

Having got hung up om Lugdush the orc I have had an idea amd wonder if it is Neekerbreeker