Riddles in the Downs

[Urwen]

Well, first two verses indicate Thingol, but last two verses indicate Turin.

I'll go with Thingol, cos Turin was the answer to your previous riddle.

[Galadriel55]

Good guesses, both, but it's neither. I didn't think of Turin when I wrote the riddle, but now that you mention it, I see that the last verse really fits!

Keep trying!

[Urwen]

Is the answer from Silmarilion? Or LoTR?

EDIT: Then again, first and third verse fit Nienor.

But I can't, for the life for me, find a person who fits all three verses, and it must be a person, because object or place couldn't really feel confidence, could they?

*is confused*

[Galadriel55]

Not Nienor.

The answer is from The Sil.

And it is not necessarily a person. All these things could be metaphorical. But I'm not saying anything.

Reposting for convenience's sake:

I looked at grey -
Enchantment.

I looked at inferior -
Confidence.

I looked at gold -
Truth.

[Urwen]

Is it so? *laughs*

In that case, the answer must be Gurthang

I looked at grey -
Enchantment. - This was many times in Doriath, if you say that Gurthang was 'metaphorically' feeling his master's feelings...about Melian

I looked at inferior -
Confidence. - This also happened, with Turin, if you think 'metaphorically'

I looked at gold -
Truth. - Also with Turin, 'metaphorically' when he saw Glaurung

This is just a shot. If it's wrong, at least tell me if I'm on partly right track

[Galadriel55]

Not Gurthang. You were closer with your first guess - Thingol. And I didn't say that it's an object, and I didn't say that it's a person, or that it's anything else. I was just saying that things could be metaphorical.

[Urwen]

Is the answer inside his familia, perchance?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Is the answer inside his familia, perchance?

Are you talking about Turin of Thingol?

And anyways, if I tell you the family of this person (I'll give you that, it is a person) it would be too obvious.

[Urwen]

Why, I'm talking about Thingol, since it's neither Turin nor Nienor, and my namesake unfortunately died at the age of three.

But if you want to play further, I'd say Melian, since her dear dead husband WAS known as 'Grey cloak'. As for confidence bit, those were her sharp words to my dearest brother. And the 'gold' bit, could refer to... *smirks*

Gotta you! It IS Melian! I finally realised what the gold and the truth refer to! The 'inferior' and 'gold' and 'truth' all revolve around MY family!

Okay,so Melian looked upon Hurin and she was the one who GIVE the truth, not the one who RECEIVED it.

*laughs* Stumper...

[Galadriel55]

Yup, Melian it is! Way to go!

She looked Thingol in the eyes and they both were enchanted, then she looked Beren in the eyes and gave him confidence to speak, and then she looked Hurin in the eyes and he understood the truth of Morgoth's curse. I probably missed some people who Melian looked at but these three were the only ones that sprang to my mind.

Looking forward to Urwen's next riddle!

[Urwen]

Thank you. Here's a really stumpy riddle:

Though no song sings of me
My blood held the only hope for the world
My people were staunch and proud
They refused the offer of the Dark one

Happy riddling

[Galadriel55]

Definitely stumpy.

Though no song sings of me - Fingolfin?

My blood held the only hope for the world - Earendil/his ancestry?

My people were staunch and proud
They refused the offer of the Dark one - *completely stumped.* Sounds like the Dwarves of Erebor... or maybe Rohan... but if I can somehow link Earendil and Fingolfin, these are totally random!

Already stumped.



EDIT: Just thought... maybe Elendil?

[Urwen]

My blood held the only hope for the world - Earendil

This is correct. The rest aren't. And that's the only hint I could give - for now...

[Galadriel55]

Hm. Elrond? He's Earendil's son, and his and Gil-galad's people refused to believe Annatar=Sauron.

[Urwen]

No, wrong.

Maybe this:

hope = Earendil
speaker = his paternal ancestor

will help, no?

[Galadriel55]

Being the ancestor of Earendil and the leader of the 3rd House of Edain, and all Edain refused to serve Morgoth (unlike the Easterlings)... am I somewhat close?

[Urwen]

In a way, yes. Think of it this way: the dark one doesn't neccessarily mean evil...

Also, offer is one specific offer.

Btw, it isn't Marach.

[Urwen]

Um...why has everybody neglected this thread? You people managed to solve much harder riddles than mine is, and yet you still cover before this one?

I don't know what to say, except that you have intelligence swings...

[Pitchwife]

For crying out loud, Urwen, it's not even been 10 days yet! If it's any consolation, I've been thinking about this, and if I had an inkling who it could be you can bet I'd have posted it.

I'm moderately sure it has to be a member of the Dor-lómin mafia, and reading "They refused the offer of the Dark one" my first thought was of Húrin rejecting Morgoth's offer of a captaincy in reward for betraying Turgon, but if "the dark one doesn't necessarily mean evil" that was obviously wrong - which leaves me rather clueless.

Anyway, belated thanks for standing in for me earlier. And it's 'cower', not 'cover'.

[Urwen]

And as for "Mafia" remember than Hurin himself wasn't Earendil's ancestor. But someone else was. And that someone else is the answer.

Also, think about who else except Morgoth and Sauron, Witch King and others was called the DARK one. If you guess that, it'll all make sense.

*sly*

[Anguirel]

Haldar, son of Haldad, brother of Haleth, I think; it could also be Haldad, but I'm inclined to think fewest songs would be sung of the boy who bought it before he could inherit. It can't be Haleth herself because she's a widely renowned pop heroine and died childless rather than contributing to wonderboy's genepool. The dark one is Caranthir. Easy. Now stay away from the King's Players

[Urwen]

So, you depichered who the dark one really is. Congrats.

But the answer is not Haldar.

P.S: I may stay away, but as I said, I'm not the only member who thinks this. Neglecting other categories may come back to bite you in the bum. I saw that admin and mod of this forum have been online quite a lot lately. They might decide that RP is keeping you from posting in other categories and close the RP.

I just want to warn you to lessen before they do.

[the phantom]

It's totally Lalaith.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Urwen

P.S: I may stay away, but as I said, I'm not the only member who thinks this. Neglecting other categories may come back to bite you in the bum. I saw that admin and mod of this forum have been online quite a lot lately. They might decide that RP is keeping you from posting in other categories and close the RP.

Mnemo has already said all there is to say to that on the King's Players Discussion thread, and said it quite admirably, but as that apparently didn't get through, I'll put it more bluntly. Downsing is supposed to be fun, not some kind of job where you have to fulfill certain quota. I can't find anything in the Forum Policies and Guidelines that dictates how people are expected to spend their time on the Downs as long as it's Tolkien-related and up to the forum's standards of courtesy and good writing - which the RPG in question most definitely is. I'm not sure the same can be said of your attempts to meddle with other members' personal freedom.

[Urwen]

Um...let's get back on topic, shall we?

[Pitchwife]

Good idea.

If Ang was correct that the Dark one is Caranthir and my people are the Haladin, I guess it might be Hareth, who married Galdor and became Húrin's and Húor's mother?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Um...let's get back on topic, shall we?

Yes, quite, and let's stay that way (and keep all Riddles discussion to the Riddles page, as it is supposed to be).

Well said, Pitch, my good lad. And an excellent guess as well, if I may say so.

[Urwen]

Um...but what I be naughty and say that the answer is Huor....?

But that wouldn't be nice, would it?

But could you explain your guess...of Hareth?

[Pitchwife]

Something like this:

Though no song sings of me
- unlike her descendants and e.g. her ancestral relative Haleth, she isn't renowned for any special deeds (that I can remember)
My blood held the only hope for the world
- she was Eärendil's great-grandmother
My people were staunch and proud
- can't find a special example for staunch off the top of my head, but their pride is shown e.g. in Haleths answer to Thingol
They refused the offer of the Dark one
- Caranthir's offer to let them settle in his land.

Could be one of her ancestors as well, I suppose, but going back in Eärendil's family tree she's the first of the Haladin to show up.

EDIT: If it was Húor, I think he would call the House of Hador his people, not the Haladin, wouldn't he?

PS. sally, my dear young lady, you have quite a nerve to call me 'lad'. But thanks anyway!

[Urwen]

And...this is my first riddle that took more than two guesses. *grin*

But anyway, Hareth is indeed the answer. And Caranthir is the dark one I had in mind...

[Pitchwife]

And a good riddle it was (and not at all as mafioso as I'd expected)!

I don't want to shirk my duty again, but I'd like to offer the thread to Anguirel, because but for him I'd never have thought of Caranthir and the Haladin. If he declines or hasn't posted by tomorrow, I'll put something up then. (I have an idea already, just have to think a bit about how to word it.)

[Urwen]

So it paid off.

(and not at all as mafioso as I'd expected)!

And what does that mean, exactly? Just curious...

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So it paid off.

Er, I'm not sure I want to encourage this way of thinking...

Originally Posted by Urwen

And what does that mean, exactly? Just curious...

'Mafia' = 'la familia', as you like to call them (it's Italian, isn't it?). Well, Hareth is of course related to them, but the solution was a generation or two further back than I'd thought. No offense intended.

[Urwen]

No, I don't mean that...as in THAT.

I meant that I've been learning how to make difficult riddles, and it paid off.

[Anguirel]

keep the field Pitchwife seriously, I have no idea, am a bit exhausted, and was in any case only the, er, Merry to your Eowyn

[Pitchwife]

As you wish, my lord of Burlach. Let's see how this fares:

Stoneland's servant, Lord of Stone,
my shot was aimed at the hands of friends;
towards sunset I sought for a light of hope,
towards sunset turning my day did end.

Pretty transparent, I'm afraid...

[Galadriel55]

I don't have a guess, but I have a few poks at it.

Stoneland=Gondor

I can't think of any "Lord of Stone" that would be a servant of Gondor (Gonhirrim come to mind, but that doesn't fit).

I guess I could make some person from the Battle of Pelennor fit, but I don't recall any of them betraying friends (what I think the second line means...)

EDIT: On a second thought, maybe Saruman. Baing lord of Isengard, on the property of Gondor, betrays friends, dies and tried to go westward (towards sunset) but fails. Also, the sunset could refer to the end of the War, metaphorically.

Why does the word "hands" bug me?

[Galadriel55]

In Pitchie's post that mysteriously disappeared togeter with many others he said that it's not Saruman but I'm somewhat closer - in a way - with Gonnhirrim. Also, he confirmed that Stoneland=Godor. (I'm lucky I read this before the chaos with missing posts started!)

Judging from that:

I could be closer in 2 ways. Either the name of the person literaly translates to something tht sounds like "Lord of Stone", or this person has good skills with it. (In contrast to Saruman, who is Lord of Stone only because he lives in a stony place).



Then, I doubt that this was an actual archer. There aren't that many Gondorian bowmen mentioned, and nne of them aimed for hands. A "shot" could metaphorically refer to pretty much any action that has a specific intent, or that is meant to lead/go somewhere (eg a speech).

And "hands" could by a part of... anything. It could be two flanks of an army, or... I dunno.

All this is making me confused. And I'm no nearer to the answer.

The next part, about sunset, is probably the easiest and most straightforward. Anyone recall any notable sunsets other than the one at the end of the Battle of Peennor?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

In Pitchie's post that mysteriously disappeared togeter with many others he said that it's not Saruman but I'm somewhat closer - in a way - with Gonnhirrim. Also, he confirmed that Stoneland=Godor. (I'm lucky I read this before the chaos with missing posts started!)

Lucky indeed! For those who weren't so lucky, I also noted that hands aren't a bodypart you would usually aim a shot at. Which is a hint.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I could be closer in 2 ways. Either the name of the person literaly translates to something tht sounds like "Lord of Stone", or this person has good skills with it. (In contrast to Saruman, who is Lord of Stone only because he lives in a stony place).

No comment.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Then, I doubt that this was an actual archer. There aren't that many Gondorian bowmen mentioned, and nne of them aimed for hands.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

A "shot" could metaphorically refer to pretty much any action that has a specific intent, or that is meant to lead/go somewhere (eg a speech).

It could. But it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And "hands" could by a part of... anything. It could be two flanks of an army, or... I dunno.

Or it could be just hands.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The next part, about sunset, is probably the easiest and most straightforward. Anyone recall any notable sunsets other than the one at the end of the Battle of Peennor?

Why not just read 'sunset'=west, as you did earlier?

[Galadriel55]

Now that I think of it, the last two lines fit any average Gondorian. They have a custom of looking toward the West before their evening meal, which ends the day.

Saying this, I'm left with three clues: Lord of Stone, "shot", and "hands of friends".

I'm begining to wonder if "friends" refer to the [possibly former] friends of this Lord or to any group of people that are friends. Which means that I'm thinking too much.

If you didn't say that its literally just a shot, I would say Denethor. It's even possible to say that he "stared arrows" at Gandalf, but I'd call him "brain of friends".

I don't recall any shot that's related to "just hands". Unless it could somehow refer to Anborn tying Gollum's hands... but still no real connection.