Tol-in-Gaurhoth Junior - Page 32 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 05-24-2006, 03:34 PM

WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë

So what really happened to Elenwë? What was the fate of the Noldor lost on the Grinding Ice? Who were those guys with the black suits? Who was behind all that? What is the meaning of life anyway? And what has Cartesian Dualism to do with any of this?

This TiGJ-game will start in early June (after Kath’s game has been going on for a while)!

Book your tickets on this thread to take part in this adventure – and to test the effectiveness of Hume’s guillotine!

- Thinlómien & Nogrod

Kath · 05-24-2006, 03:54 PM

And if you're in my game, don't sign up on here until you've died! Else it will all get very confusing.

Thinlómien · 05-24-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kath

And if you're in my game, don't sign up on here until you've died! Else it will all get very confusing.

We agree.

Valier · 05-24-2006, 04:05 PM

One ticket for the adventures of Psychotic Penguins: The crossing of Helcaraxe please.......(I may not have time for Kath's, but will for this one

)

Diamond18 · 05-24-2006, 04:59 PM

I'd love to play in Kath's game but I think I must take a much needed rest from ww'ing after LMP's game. So this one should just about do me. Sign me up, Lomgrod.

Nogrod · 05-24-2006, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamond18

So this one should just about do me. Sign me up, Lomgrod.

Was this originally by Spm? Anyway, I like this. Just pure nonsense and still pretty usable shortening everyone understands...

Naria · 05-25-2006, 12:08 AM

I would like to play in your game. Please sign me up!

Hugs and kisses,
Naria

PS: What would our job descriptions pertain to?

Thinlómien · 05-25-2006, 02:35 AM

Hey, we're going to have a wonderful crew!

Players
Valier
Diamond18
Naria

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naria

PS: What would our job descriptions pertain to?

Preferably something that the Noldor of Valinor could be.

Valier · 05-25-2006, 11:22 AM

One question about jobs.....Do they need to be serious or do you guys want silly occupations that still pertain to Noldorian Elves from Valinor?

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valier

One question about jobs.....Do they need to be serious or do you guys want silly occupations that still pertain to Noldorian Elves from Valinor?

Well, we thought about this and came into a conclusion that we don't basically need any occupations as such. But as the gamers will be elves from Turgon's and Elenwë's household, everyone should decide their relationship to those two. So in place of a job, you should come up with your role in the Turgon household - which might include a job, but might also be a kinship-relation or a friend of either or both of them.

PS. We won't be dead serious about this one, so go ahead!

Valier · 05-25-2006, 11:45 AM

Can I be one of Elenwe's chamber maids? One whom she was close to and shared thoughts and feelings with? and would be still considered a young Elf?

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valier

Can I be one of Elenwe's chamber maids? One whom she was close to and shared thoughts and feelings with? and would be still considered a young Elf?

Surely! You'll be just that!

Valier · 05-25-2006, 11:51 AM

Why thank you!!! Also can you make her always sad....for when Elenwe was lost, I lost my closest friend and confidant.....Not sure if this matters or not, but it was fun to think of anyways

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 11:52 AM

Check here!

The set up is ready!

(All discussion & signing in should be done here.)

Thinlómien · 05-25-2006, 12:33 PM

The WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë -game will be quite basic.

We will take in 15-18 players (at most 20, but we prefer a smaller "village").

We will have three wolves, a seer, a ranger and a hunter. A cobbler can be discussed. In a 20-player game there will be 4 wolves.

No double lynchings (discussable in the situation of 20 villagers, but only for the few first days then).

Whether we use retractable votes or not, it's up to you, but it should be restricted to one swap per day.

We propose the deadline to be 10 or 11 pm GMT. All comments are welcome.

Summary of questions:
- Cobbler or not?
- Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not?
- 10-11 pm GMT or other?

Macalaure · 05-25-2006, 12:45 PM

I think I will try a game, sounds a lot of fun.

Sign me in!

(I probably won't be able to go online on the 12th and 13th, I hope it's not a problem. On the other hand, I'm surely cold and dead by then

)

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I think I will try a game, sounds a lot of fun.

Sign me in!

You're most welcome, Macalaure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

(I probably won't be able to go online on the 12th and 13th, I hope it's not a problem. On the other hand, I'm surely cold and dead by then

)

No problem with that.

Lommy & Noggy

Valier · 05-25-2006, 12:59 PM

My picks

++Cobbler

++Retractable votes

++11pm GMT (5pm CST my time)

tom bombariffic · 05-25-2006, 03:33 PM

Can I be on standby in case anyone drops out at the last minute?

I'm playing in Kath's game but It will be my first one, so will probably be dead after 20 minutes. Bearing in mind people often seem to drop out late on, I'd love to take their place since I'll almost certainly be available.

bombariffic

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom bombariffic

Can I be on standby in case anyone drops out at the last minute?

I'm playing in Kath's game but It will be my first one, so will probably be dead after 20 minutes. Bearing in mind people often seem to drop out late on, I'd love to take their place since I'll almost certainly be available.

Taking your "fate" into consideration, welcome! It's hard to be in two games simultaneously - if not impossible - but if you die before we start, there is no problem with you participating. We'll put you down with an ? to begin with (myself & Lommy are in Kath's game too).

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 04:30 PM

We have lots of time to gather this game, but just to make things clear, here are the first enlistements.

Players
Valier Elenwe's secret chamber maid: one whom she was close to and shared thoughts and feelings with, and is still considered a young Elf
Diamond18: Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë.
Naria
Macalaure
bombarrific ?

Please pick a relationship to Turgon or Elenwë and come forwards with it.

A summary of questions so far:
- Cobbler or not? (1 yes)
- Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not? (1 yes)
- 10-11 pm GMT or other? (one times 11)

Diamond18 · 05-25-2006, 04:58 PM

I'll be Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë

Nogrod · 05-25-2006, 05:03 PM

Your point updated in the tally...

Nice to see my wife saying herself to be half-witted... In the earlier game she would have hit me with a battledore for trying to propose this myself!

Love you Di!

Valier · 05-25-2006, 05:30 PM

Ummm LomGrod could you perhaps make my title simply Elenwe's secret chamber maid....sounds more mysterious and exciting.

Diamond18 · 05-25-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Nice to see my wife saying herself to be half-witted... In the earlier game she would have hit me with a battledore for trying to propose this myself!

Well you know, one can't play the same character every game.

(Well, one can, but one doesn't want to.)

**The Saucepan Man** · 05-25-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D18

I'll be Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë

There goes another crime for Diamond the serial canon offender to confess ...

Thinlómien · 05-26-2006, 07:46 AM

Players
Valier - Elenwe's secret chamber maid
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë.
Naria
Macalaure
Lalaith

If they die early enough in Kath's game:
tom bombarrific
Nilpaurion Felagund

And sorry for flooding the thread: The only problem with two mods is that we can't edit each other's posts and I can't wait Noggie to edit his...

And I could maybe add this as well:

Please pick a relationship to Turgon or Elenwë and come forwards with it.

A summary of questions so far:
- Cobbler or not? (1 yes)
- Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not? (1 yes)
- 10-11 pm GMT or other? (one times 11)

Macalaure · 05-26-2006, 11:19 AM

I'd like to be

Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer

I see some kind of connection between playing Werewolf and kinslaying.

Besides:

Cobbler - yes
Retractable votes - no
End of day - 10 pm GMT (this is 11 pm in Central Europe, if I'm right)

Mithalwen · 05-26-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valier

Ummm LomGrod could you perhaps make my title simply Elenwe's secret chamber maid....sounds more mysterious and exciting.

Sounds more like you are the privy councillor or rather cleaner...

Valier · 05-26-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mith

Sounds more like you are the privy councillor or rather cleaner..

I know!!! After looking at it I don't think I got the title right....I wanted to be hmmmmm ah perhaps what I am looking for is assistant? like someone who does your hair and turns down your covers and what not.... Ya more like a personal assistant I think

Mithalwen · 05-26-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valier

I know!!! After looking at it I don't think I got the title right....I wanted to be hmmmmm ah perhaps what I am looking for is assistant? like someone who does your hair and turns down your covers and what not.... Ya more like a personal assistant I think

Handmaid? But having read Margaret Attwood....

Nogrod · 05-26-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valier

I know!!! After looking at it I don't think I got the title right....I wanted to be hmmmmm ah perhaps what I am looking for is assistant? like someone who does your hair and turns down your covers and what not.... Ya more like a personal assistant I think

I took a look at my dictionaries. Would you like to be a "maid of honour"? What I was looking after was the word "courtier", but that seems to be a male-word. How does it sound to you native speakers? There surely is the "courtesan", but that seems to carry some pretty heavy associations with it...

Would just a "maid" do? A personal maid f.ex.? Is the following right with you (I'll change it as is needed)?

So an update (sorry Lommy...

)

Valier - Elenwe's personal chamber maid
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Naria -
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress

tom bombarrific ?
Nilpaurion Felagund ?

Please pick a relationship to Turgon or Elenwë and come forwards with it.

A summary of questions so far:
- Cobbler or not? (2 yes)
- Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not? (1 yes - 1 no)
- 10-11 pm GMT or other? (one time 10, one 11)

Valier · 05-26-2006, 04:25 PM

[b]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [/b

Nogrod] Valier - Elenwe's personal chamber maid

Sounds great!! Sorry about all that

Lalaith · 05-26-2006, 04:31 PM

I'll be Aredhel's tutoress - I'd say governess but that sounds too frumpy.
I'm busy fostering her rebellious and independent spirit...

Mithalwen · 05-27-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valier

Sounds great!! Sorry about all that

Lady in waiting makes it sound moreas if you do nice stuff rather than just empty waste paper baskets and provie clean towels

Nogrod · 05-27-2006, 10:25 AM

Now as Lmp's game is over, I believe Kath's game will begin within days.

We will probably stick to our plan of starting the game at earliest on June 3rd, probably a day or two later. That will depend mainly on the number of people enlisted so far.

Welcome!

PS. Check the intro from the sig.

Firefoot · 05-27-2006, 02:35 PM

All right, sign me up.

Can I be one of Aredhel's friends? Is that close enough to a relationship with Elenwe or Turgon?

My votes:

Yes, cobbler; it's a fun role to have around...
I don't particularly care about retractable votes; I've been in enjoyable games with both, but if you need some sort of tie-breaker, I'd say no retractables.
10-11 GMT works brilliantly. I'm not particular about the exact time.

Diamond18 · 05-27-2006, 03:04 PM

I say sure, let's have a cobbler.

I don't care about the time.

Let's have retractable votes but with a limit of one switch per day.

What about revealing or not revealing roles upon death? What do you plan to do for that?

Nogrod · 05-27-2006, 03:14 PM

Welcome Firefoot! Nice to see you.

Valier - Elenwe's personal chamber maid
Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë
Naria -
Macalaure - Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer
Lalaith - Aredhel's tutoress
Firefoot- Aredhel's friend
tom bombarrific ?
Nilpaurion Felagund ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamond18

What about revealing or not revealing roles upon death? What do you plan to do for that?

That is a harder one. Lommy will be at my place tomorrow and we will have to discuss it. But surely we would like to hear your comments about it too.

So yes or no?

A summary of questions so far:
- Cobbler or not? (4 yes - 0 for no)
- Retractables (max. 2 votes/ day) or not? (2 yes - 2 no)
- 10-11 pm GMT or other? (1 for 10 - 1 for 11)
- Revealing or not revealing roles upon death (0 votes so far)

Thinlómien · 05-28-2006, 11:00 AM

Because there have been various variations of the hunter and they all have had some funny faults (eg. the hunter surrounded by three wolves at night begs the wolves to wait for a second so she could run to an innocent villager's house and kill him) we would like to introduce a new hunter called the logical hunter.

The logical hunter works as follows:
- she can change her pick whenever she wants to
- if she has picked a wolf and is attacked at night she will take her pick with her
- if she has picked someone who has voted her she will take her pick with her when lynched
- so the logical hunter does not take innocents/gifteds with her when killed by the wolves nor take someone who hasn't voted her with her when lynched

Questions and comments are welcome.

05-24-2006, 03:54 PM	#1242
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	And if you're in my game, don't sign up on here until you've died! Else it will all get very confusing. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

05-24-2006, 04:05 PM	#1244
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,706	One ticket for the adventures of Psychotic Penguins: The crossing of Helcaraxe please.......(I may not have time for Kath's, but will for this one ) __________________ grand return?........

05-24-2006, 04:59 PM	#1245
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I'd love to play in Kath's game but I think I must take a much needed rest from ww'ing after LMP's game. So this one should just about do me. Sign me up, Lomgrod. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

05-25-2006, 12:08 AM	#1247
Naria Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 500	Dear Lommy and Noggy I would like to play in your game. Please sign me up! Hugs and kisses, Naria PS: What would our job descriptions pertain to?

05-25-2006, 11:22 AM	#1249
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,706	One question about jobs.....Do they need to be serious or do you guys want silly occupations that still pertain to Noldorian Elves from Valinor? __________________ grand return?........

05-24-2006, 03:34 PM	#1241
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë So what really happened to Elenwë? What was the fate of the Noldor lost on the Grinding Ice? Who were those guys with the black suits? Who was behind all that? What is the meaning of life anyway? And what has Cartesian Dualism to do with any of this? This TiGJ-game will start in early June (after Kath’s game has been going on for a while)! Book your tickets on this thread to take part in this adventure – and to test the effectiveness of Hume’s guillotine! - Thinlómien & Nogrod

05-25-2006, 11:45 AM	#1251
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,706	Can I be one of Elenwe's chamber maids? One whom she was close to and shared thoughts and feelings with? and would be still considered a young Elf? __________________ grand return?........

05-25-2006, 11:51 AM	#1253
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,706	Why thank you!!! Also can you make her always sad....for when Elenwe was lost, I lost my closest friend and confidant.....Not sure if this matters or not, but it was fun to think of anyways __________________ grand return?........

05-25-2006, 11:52 AM	#1254
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Check here! The set up is ready! (All discussion & signing in should be done here.)

05-25-2006, 12:33 PM	#1255
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	The WWJ IX: Psychotic Penguins: The Crossing of Helcaraxë -game will be quite basic. We will take in 15-18 players (at most 20, but we prefer a smaller "village"). We will have three wolves, a seer, a ranger and a hunter. A cobbler can be discussed. In a 20-player game there will be 4 wolves. No double lynchings (discussable in the situation of 20 villagers, but only for the few first days then). Whether we use retractable votes or not, it's up to you, but it should be restricted to one swap per day. We propose the deadline to be 10 or 11 pm GMT. All comments are welcome. Summary of questions: - Cobbler or not? - Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not? - 10-11 pm GMT or other? __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

05-25-2006, 12:45 PM	#1256
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	I think I will try a game, sounds a lot of fun. Sign me in! (I probably won't be able to go online on the 12th and 13th, I hope it's not a problem. On the other hand, I'm surely cold and dead by then )

05-25-2006, 12:59 PM	#1258
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,706	My picks ++Cobbler ++Retractable votes ++11pm GMT (5pm CST my time) __________________ grand return?........

05-25-2006, 03:33 PM	#1259
tom bombariffic Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In the house of Tom Bombariffic Posts: 196	Can I be on standby in case anyone drops out at the last minute? I'm playing in Kath's game but It will be my first one, so will probably be dead after 20 minutes. Bearing in mind people often seem to drop out late on, I'd love to take their place since I'll almost certainly be available. bombariffic __________________ The 'hum' generated by an electric car is not in fact the noise of the engine, but that of the driver's self-righteousness oscillating at a high frequency.

05-25-2006, 04:30 PM	#1261
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	We have lots of time to gather this game, but just to make things clear, here are the first enlistements. Players Valier Elenwe's secret chamber maid: one whom she was close to and shared thoughts and feelings with, and is still considered a young Elf Diamond18: Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë. Naria Macalaure bombarrific ? Please pick a relationship to Turgon or Elenwë and come forwards with it. A summary of questions so far: - Cobbler or not? (1 yes) - Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not? (1 yes) - 10-11 pm GMT or other? (one times 11) __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... Last edited by Nogrod; 05-26-2006 at 02:24 AM.

05-25-2006, 04:58 PM	#1262
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I'll be Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

05-25-2006, 05:03 PM	#1263
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Your point updated in the tally... Nice to see my wife saying herself to be half-witted... In the earlier game she would have hit me with a battledore for trying to propose this myself! Love you Di! __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

05-25-2006, 05:30 PM	#1264
Valier Twisted Taleswapper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: somewhere between sanity and insanity Posts: 1,706	Ummm LomGrod could you perhaps make my title simply Elenwe's secret chamber maid....sounds more mysterious and exciting. __________________ grand return?........

05-26-2006, 07:46 AM	#1267
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Updated players list Players Valier - Elenwe's secret chamber maid Diamond18 - Dimwë the half-wit second cousin of Elenwë. Naria Macalaure Lalaith If they die early enough in Kath's game: tom bombarrific Nilpaurion Felagund And sorry for flooding the thread: The only problem with two mods is that we can't edit each other's posts and I can't wait Noggie to edit his... And I could maybe add this as well: Please pick a relationship to Turgon or Elenwë and come forwards with it. A summary of questions so far: - Cobbler or not? (1 yes) - Retractables (max. 2/ day) or not? (1 yes) - 10-11 pm GMT or other? (one times 11) __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

05-26-2006, 11:19 AM	#1268
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	I'd like to be Turgon's nephew and part-time-repentant kinslayer I see some kind of connection between playing Werewolf and kinslaying. Besides: Cobbler - yes Retractable votes - no End of day - 10 pm GMT (this is 11 pm in Central Europe, if I'm right)

05-26-2006, 04:31 PM	#1274
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	I'll be Aredhel's tutoress - I'd say governess but that sounds too frumpy. I'm busy fostering her rebellious and independent spirit... __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

05-27-2006, 10:25 AM	#1276
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Now as Lmp's game is over, I believe Kath's game will begin within days. We will probably stick to our plan of starting the game at earliest on June 3rd, probably a day or two later. That will depend mainly on the number of people enlisted so far. Welcome! PS. Check the intro from the sig. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

05-27-2006, 02:35 PM	#1277
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	All right, sign me up. Can I be one of Aredhel's friends? Is that close enough to a relationship with Elenwe or Turgon? My votes: Yes, cobbler; it's a fun role to have around... I don't particularly care about retractable votes; I've been in enjoyable games with both, but if you need some sort of tie-breaker, I'd say no retractables. 10-11 GMT works brilliantly. I'm not particular about the exact time.

05-27-2006, 03:04 PM	#1278
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	I say sure, let's have a cobbler. I don't care about the time. Let's have retractable votes but with a limit of one switch per day. What about revealing or not revealing roles upon death? What do you plan to do for that? __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

05-28-2006, 11:00 AM	#1280
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	A note on hunter Because there have been various variations of the hunter and they all have had some funny faults (eg. the hunter surrounded by three wolves at night begs the wolves to wait for a second so she could run to an innocent villager's house and kill him) we would like to introduce a new hunter called the logical hunter. The logical hunter works as follows: - she can change her pick whenever she wants to - if she has picked a wolf and is attacked at night she will take her pick with her - if she has picked someone who has voted her she will take her pick with her when lynched - so the logical hunter does not take innocents/gifteds with her when killed by the wolves nor take someone who hasn't voted her with her when lynched Questions and comments are welcome. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

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