Golden Perch Discussion Thread

[Galadriel55]

blantyr, that was a fast visit! Goldie hardly came in, and she's out already for the sake of Al's "over-sized ego", as Foley put it? Goldie has a final trick under her sleeve, doesn't she?



Hi, Glaurcrist! New customers are always welcome at the inn!

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

blantyr, that was a fast visit! Goldie hardly came in, and she's out already for the sake of Al's "over-sized ego", as Foley put it? Goldie has a final trick under her sleeve, doesn't she?

Twas not just Al. She hasn't picked up anything in the way of positive vibes from anyone. To a great degree it's her own fault. She blew her entrance. Her next entrance might be different. Still, at this point she'd have to change herself to suit others or change others to suit her, and neither is her way. The simplest way to avoid a conflict or strife, no mater that it is only verbal and social, is to walk away.

After the sun goes down, as the stars become bright, there will be some soft music in the air, not loud enough to intrude, but present if anyone should wish to find it's source. If there is no one in Stock who would follow music into the night, she'll be well away by sunrise.

[Envinyatar]

Originally Posted by blantyr

The simplest way to avoid a conflict or strife, no mater that it is only verbal and social, is to walk away.

Hmmm . . . I find conflict and strife between characters to be rather interesting to explore.

I thought perhaps your character might have overheard the comment my Hobbit. Tolly, made. I don't understand why she couldn't have called him on it in some manner. Perhaps she considers his comment rude in return . . .

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Envinyatar

Hmmm . . . I find conflict and strife between characters to be rather interesting to explore.

If everythig goes smoothly, the story doesn't sound neither right nor realistic. It gets Mary-Sue-ish. But conflict is harder to write, in my opinion. And it can be part of character to try to avoid conflict.

Entirely up to you, blantyr. I'm just sayin'.

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

If everything goes smoothly, the story doesn't sound neither right nor realistic. It gets Mary-Sue-ish. But conflict is harder to write, in my opinion. And it can be part of character to try to avoid conflict.

Entirely up to you, blantyr. I'm just sayin'.

I'm just realizing Goldie was created for entirely different sort of game. Her home AQ game is a fellowship game, with a bunch of warriors attempting to protect Breeland and beyond, dealing with ruffians coming up the Greenway. I wanted to create a young and far less powerful version of Tolkien's Great Ladies, and could do so without fear that there would be no conflict. There is conflict in sufficient abundance in the AQ game, such that one character seeking grace and lack of conflict creates a conflict with the more aggressive and direct male PCs.

Are we seeking attrition or an end to the conflict? Should an elf be meddling in conflict between human groups? Is this just a skirmish for power between humans, or is a Shadow present that must be dealt with? Is there a nobler path than to simply to use one's sword? When there is clearly a Shadow on the land, how can one do nothing? How does one pinpoint the center of the Shadow's influence such that one need not use any more violence than necessary?

When Goldie left her wandering company to walk among mortals she had resolved not to impose elven standards on non-elves, not to reshape them to the standards she holds for herself, and not to judge. She must quietly adapt to local culture if she can do so in good conscience. If she cannot adapt in good conscience, she doesn't belong and should leave.

The Golden Pearch is clearly an entirely different game asking entirely different questions, exploring Tolkien's world from an entirely different perspective. At some point I may create a hobbit with the correct hair, skin and eye colors, sufficient character flaws and enough stubbornness to bounce merrily off Al.

But that's not Goldie. I find Tolkien's major female characters too good to be true, and created Goldie in the same spirit. Heck, if a Mary Sue character is too idealized, lacks flaws, and embodies a wish fulfillment by the author, should we talk about Arwen, Galadriel and Goldberry? Sure, Goldie might go too far to avoid conflict unless she absolutely has to. That is perhaps a problem in this game. It's a feature in her original game.

Anyway, she's not running or hiding. Any who wants to follow and talk to her could. If anyone would speak her name she would stop and converse. Any who wishes to follow the music in the night could. At this point, though, she isn't going to push herself on anyone.

Bob

[Nerwen]

blantyr, if I may offer a suggestion– it would probably be best to just bite the bullet and just create a new character, as doesn't seem to me that Goldie will fit in to Barrowdowns RPG-ing without heavy modification. In fact, I rather think these guidelines are written with a view to discouraging characters like her.

...But heck, I don't even post in the Golden Perch, so I should probably shut up now.

[Galadriel55]

Please don't shut up, Nerwen, because you're saying sense!

Hmm. I sound like Al now.

blantyr, did you just call Galadriel flawless? Think again.

Goldberry is constantly happy, but she's not idealistic. So is Bombadil.

Arwen and Luthien are both half Mary Sues, because of love-at-first-sight and that sort of thing. But still not exactly Mary Sues. The movie Arwen is one, though.

[Folwren]

Alright, ya'll, cool it. Conflict is great and all in a story, but I don't want it here. In the Perch game thread, sure thing, but here it's beginning to sound like a WW bandwagon.

Blantyr, your character was approved by me (and I think Pio approved it, too...am I rght?) before you entered the Perch, so you're fine and she's fine. It is perfectly acceptable for Goldie to come and go from the Perch as you prefer. If you find that you don't think your character fits and she does not return to the common room, that is also fine. I would personally love to see more of your writing, so if you decide to come up with a different character that will create and cause more excitement, that would be great.

I don't mind that opinions are voiced here about conflict being good (i.e. Enviyatar and Galadriel's posts before blantyr's long post are perfectly acceptable). I think perhaps some things were taken a little wrong and some feathers were ruffled, but it doesn't need to go beyond this.

Last thing - it is nobody's business except for Pio's (and maybe mine here at the Perch) to tell any other player that their character does not fit the Barrow Downs RPGing.

-- Folwren

[Nerwen]

Sorry, Foley. I just thought it might help solve the issue.

[piosenniel]

Food's arrived for Al

and hot tea for Elin

[Galadriel55]

What is it with onions?

[blantyr]

Sorry I missed Rowan coming out to look for Goldie. Weekend in real life. Busy. If anyone wants to connect with Goldie, I'd be pleased to connect. As I said earlier, there will be a little music in the air that might be chased after dark. She isn't making herself too hard to find, but you'd have to look.

[Tam Lin]

Hello!

A dusty Elf character from waaay waaaaaay back would like to visit the Perch again

I'll bring him in soon if that's alright with you all

Tavrobelion (Tavaro)

[Folwren]

Would love to have him back, Tam. Welcome back.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

I remember Tavaro, would be good to see him back.

[blantyr]

Sorry if I'm rambling a bit. The following includes some spoilers. If you want to learn about Goldie by role playing with Goldie you might want to skip the following. If not...

The Ambarquenta game mechanics include a mechanism 'flaws'. I wanted Goldie to be physically perfect, so I avoided things like color blind, short of breath or vulnerable to sorcery. I wanted to imitate Tolkien's great ladies, so I avoided villainous character traits like berserk rage or selfishness. This left me with virtuous 'flaws' that require the character to behave in heroic fashion.

She is truthful. I overplay it. She will not only avoid lying herself, but will make it hard on anyone else trying to pull off subterfuge. This has made life hard on another PC in her other game who is into conspiracy theories. Fortunately, she is not the only truthful character in the other game.

She is chaste, with a one time option for monogamous. It occurs to me that many of Tolkien's ladies are this way, which might distinguish them from the classic Mary Sue stereotype.

She is Duty bound to Lindon, performing any task called upon by appropriate authorities. This too is overplayed. If the proper authorities in any land she is in calls for some task to be performed, she is apt to try to contribute. She is a singer, not a warrior, but she wants to be there when a song worthy situation occurs. She has heard far too many songs and wants to write some herself.

She will avoid conflict with any save servants of the Shadow. This is sometimes in conflict with the Duty to serve and the desire to be at song worthy events. Resolving this conflict is complicated, involving role playing discussions about issues and moderate amounts of angst. It also creates role playing opportunities with PCs in her other game who might be considered 'bunnies' here. When Goldie is around, it becomes harder to move directly from battle scene to battle scene without considering alternatives and doing some role playing.

As a personality quirk, she is inclined towards mirth. She will sometimes laugh at large hobbits and other beings or situations which others might take seriously. The Golden Perch seems to have flawed characters generating liberal amounts of angst. For a while she might attempt to be a good girl, but be aware that if you ask a question you'll get a true answer. "If you wish to develop a strong Voice, speak Truth always."

Now, the above personality traits were designed for a game with lots of external conflict. Goldie is supposed to generate some sparks while still allowing party unity. Goldie will likely throw up her share of sparks here too. Different sparks, but sparks still.

But for now, let's assume the Al was absolutely and totally right. She doesn't belong here. She does not have a right to walk in mortal lands. While Al didn't say so explicitly perhaps, she was in essence told to go away. She doesn't take Al all that seriously, but she is looking for an invitation before she would come back.

And, no, I don't think this is the only way one might possibly play an elf. Even among elves, she would be highly unusual. Still, it's how I'd like to play Goldie.

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Tam Lin

Hello!

A dusty Elf character from waaay waaaaaay back would like to visit the Perch again

I'll bring him in soon if that's alright with you all

Tavrobelion (Tavaro)

If you'd care to stumble into Goldie on your way to the inn...

[Envinyatar]

Originally Posted by blantyr

The Golden Perch seems to have flawed characters generating liberal amounts of angst.

What exactly do you mean by angst?

"Tolly", my character, was not designed to be an angsty fellow.

He has no neurotic fear, anxiety, guilt, remorse. He's not depressed. Nor has any semblance of deep and essentially philosophical anxiety about the world in general or personal freedom.

He's quite comfortable in his skin.

Is 'angst' a defined term in use in the Ambarquenta style of roleplaying?

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Envinyatar

Is 'angst' a defined term in use in the Ambarquenta style of roleplaying?

A quick scan of the 7.9 AQ release yielded no hits for angst. Let's just say that a few of the AQ group I've been playing with are too busy bunnying to spend a lot of time fretting the little unimportant stuff... like character development. There are different game styles, and within every group there are players that emphasize different stuff. A lot of the Golden Perch characters might well have trouble adjusting to a conflict driven game as much as or more so than Goldie's problems fitting in with the Perch crowd.

[Mithalwen]

Or maybe we wouldn't try to use characters designed for this format in a different one. I don't try to play tennis with a cricket bat And I wouldn't join a tennis club unless I wanted to play tennis. I wouldn't join a tennis club and constantly lecture the members on how they aren't playing cricket either,

[Folwren]

Character development is a very important part of most of the BD role-playing games. Not to mention that it is one of the things that makes the LotR itself and other Tolkien works so great. I would never call character development some of the 'little, unimportant stuff'.

The Golden Perch is not meant for a deeper, more complicated, conflict driven plot. I've explained this to you, bantyr. But just because this game does not depend on that, does not mean that the writers here could not take the very same characters and play them in a conflict driven plotted game if they so desire.

This discussion thread is not meant for a debate about how the game should be played. This thread is for discussion about what is going on in the game, for any questions about the game, and about introducing new characters. We have discussed Goldie long enough, I think. If you want to introduce a character that you feel will fit in more with the style of writing and characters that are found here, then by all means do.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

I have had Elin follow after Penny.

[Mithalwen]

Okies.. Elin and Annie and inevitably the bunny have made their way to the kitchen. You may want to make use of her height and get her to dust the top shelves while she's there.

[Folwren]

It is still amazing how active this place has been. I'm really happy and excited. Someday, maybe I'll be able to pitch in and write some, too!

[Mithalwen]

Well full marks to those playing the inn staff for maintaining momentum - albeit the gentle momentum of the place. Is there anyone left in the place that Al hasn't either offended or been offended by? The film "How to lose friends and alienate people" was on the other night and I thought "I know someone like that.."

Galadriel - I haven't got a clue about the onions - I thought it was an American thing. I am still getting used to the idea of biscuits being fluffy and smothered with butter or gravy or whatever.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well full marks to those playing the inn staff for maintaining momentum - albeit the gentle momentum of the place. Is there anyone left in the place that Al hasn't either offended or been offended by? The film "How to lose friends and alienate people" was on the other night and I thought "I know someone like that.."

lol...yeah...he hasn't offended Ibin yet. Something would definitely come of that.

-- Foley

[Folwren]

Galadriel - I haven't got a clue about the onions - I thought it was an American thing. I am still getting used to the idea of biscuits being fluffy and smothered with butter or gravy or whatever.

You don't have fluffy buscuits and gravy over wherever you are? Europe, England, wherever? Wow. You poor person. It's wonderful. And fluffy biscuits are the best.

-- Folwren

[Galadriel55]

What I meant is why is there so much to-do about onions lately... well, not exactly "lately", but in the inn's terms... Tolly, Rowan, and Prim were having a whole discussion about whether they should mix onions and beans, or something of that sort...

...it occurred to Elin that things that couldn't think for themselves were perhaps the best company for that hobbit.

You deserve a tripple serving of biscuits with or without onions for that! !!!

Originally Posted by Mith

Is there anyone left in the place that Al hasn't either offended or been offended by?

The people that he still didn't talk to. That includes Ibin, the two rangers, Tolly, Reginald, Prim, Iris, Annie, erm, um, cough, I think that's it.

Oh, and Dick. :-) Even though he was probably slightly offended by the broken mug.


I remember thinking of a quarrel with Ibin when I was "making" Al. So when you're up to it, Foley, feel free to have the two meet! (Or Al could come up to Ibin, or something.) ...If Dick is ready to stop the fight, that is. :P

Currently thinking of what other mischief - or the opposite - Al can possibly cause.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Folwren

You don't have fluffy buscuits and gravy over wherever you are? Europe, England, wherever? Wow. You poor person. It's wonderful. And fluffy biscuits are the best.

-- Folwren

England. Well we have gravy of course and we have something like what you call biscuits which we call scones and while you can make them with herbs or cheese and serve with soup they are most often made with sultanas or plain and served with butter and jam or iconically jam and thick or clotted cream as part of a Cream tea. The nearest I have had to having them with gravy was when I had to make a minced beef cobbler at school.

But what we call biscuits, Americans call cookies (or crackers for the savoury kind). SO think cookies smothered with butter & honey / gravy and you may see why it seems funny however much I know it isn' t what is meant. Maybe I should find a US biscuit recipe and compare and contrast..

But I didn't really get why the onions were a big deal either. In a stew you tend to notice moer when they are not there than when they are...

Poor old Al.. of course when he meets Annie she is liable to be like the children in "The Emperor's New Clothes" ... Maybe when she perks up.

[Mithalwen]

Thanks to Foley sending me a recipe.. I now understand the biscuits and butter and honey thing. Really, really understand.

*PS at least while they are hot... cold more like a very plain scone ...

[Flame of Udûn]

Hi everyone, this is the first time in a long while that I have been on the Downs. When I was last on here I had made a few posts on here and then suddenly stopped so I feel I must apologise for what happened. I am afraid that the Barrow Downs somewhat slipped my mind. I am sorry for any problems I caused in the Perch.

Flame

[Snowdog]

Its been some time (2004?) since I've written here. Was planning on getting back into some writing when the new forum format came to pass, but hadn't the time. Was thinking of partaking in a bit of 'Inn' RP if this is still active. Last post was May 2011.

[Folwren]

Lucky I popped in today...

The inn is supposedly still active. I will be active if others are, and others may pop in if I and you become active.

-- Foley

[Snowdog]

Well, I guess I can intro my character. I just didn't want to interrupt any storylines that may be in play. I need to read up on what the timeframe is and such, but can have a post up soon. Look forward to writing with you Folwren!

[Mithalwen]

Oooh splendid.. I'll be around.. high time I got my act together on the RPG front..
...

[Galadriel55]

I've been conveniently ignoring the silence in this forum since I don't have enough energy/motivation/time to get it going again myself, but if someone else takes the lead I'll be around.

[Mithalwen]

Well I suppose the fact that I was the last to post doesn't automatically mean I killed it off! but I do feel a bit responsible...

[Snowdog]

Well, I was just going to have my character arrive at the Inn, so he will be clueless as to what all has been going on inside the inn. Hopefully I'll get all the characters inside right.

[Folwren]

It certainly wasn't your fault, Mith, that the place died out. Oh well.

I don't recall what is occuring at the inn right now. I'll have to see. If nothing too astounding is happening, perhaps we could start a new day or something. Or is our cook still missing? That is an awkward situation, as I have no idea what actually happened. Dear me.

-- Foley

[Mithalwen]

Don't mind me Foley - I am just paranoid and just aware of spending a lot of time thinking about my horrendously overdue WightFright post is not the same as actually doing it!!

We did a big time jump to get over the cooks disappearance so she is still missing but after several months not hot gossip so much. A jump of hour or two would be fine by me. I could then post having spent some time in the kitchen without compromising the staff there.

I can check back and post a summary pof where we are at later today but I should be elsewhere for an hour or so. Have to go admire my erstwhile neighbour's new home.