Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread

[littlemanpoet]

I believe "morbidity" is the more common rendering. This is a smile-> This is a grin-> My smile was intended to reflect my willingness to cooperate.

[Lalaith]

Elempi, I'm sorry to hear you're going.

As for what the Borrim should do...historically, as it were, the sons of Bor (Borlad, Borlach and Borthand) followed Maedhros and Maglor, while the Ulflings marched with Caranthir.
It is important, canonically, that no elf that marches to the Nirnaeth should have any inkling as to the treachery of the Easterlings. So I suggest the following:
a. Fastarr and Embla, who know the truth, do not go back to the Borrim. I think they should be thoroughly terrified by the whole affair, and go perhaps to Embla's people.
b. The rest of the Borrim - Briga and co - would also bring troubled tidings, so perhaps they do not get back in time; the sons of Bor have already left with Maedhros and Maglor when they return?
c. Tathren - if he tells Caranthir of alleged Borrim treachery, why do the Borrim still march with Maedhros and co? Communication issues between the brethren?

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks, Lalaith. I would love to stay, but I must not; I have had so much fun here.

Good questions.

a. I think you're right. Fastarr and Embla go their own way.

b. Again, good solution.

c. Caranthir could be construed as too haughty to bother to send word to Maedhros and Maglor? Or word could get to M & M too late?

[Gwathagor]

Caranthir could descend upon the village in wrath at the end of the story, learn the truth of the treachery, vindicate the Borrim, deal with Jord, and generally exact justice. Jord might escape by turning vampire and flying away, but I'd rather she got hers, so to speak. It would make me feel better about writing such an awful creature.

[Durelin]

*slinks in and cries for Jord's poor misunderstood soul*

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Durelin

*slinks in and cries for Jord's poor misunderstood soul*

Oh! Likely!

I would have loved it if you could have stayed and played her, and I do understand if you are feeling sorry that she didn't turn out how you had originally planned...but I highly doubt she's any less evil than you had intended.

Gwathagor, I think that your idea is rather impossible. Caranthir can not come back and get the truth, for he must, according to the history, ride into battle believing that he is totally and completely backed up by the Ulfings. Unfortunately, Jord probably isn't going to get her just desserts in this game.

Lailath, your ideas make sense, but the only thing I don't like is the fact that if Fastarr and Embla leave, you and Nogrod wouldn't be in the game so much. Am I wrong? Would you still be able to play?

What would happen if Tathren were killed as well as Lachrandir and no ambassadors were sent back, but the army showed up to join in with Caranthir's army instead? I don't know what that would mean, politically and all, so if anyone knows better, do tell.

And I really have no idea what the Borrim are to do.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Foley

I would have loved it if you could have stayed and played her, and I do understand if you are feeling sorry that she didn't turn out how you had originally planned...but I highly doubt she's any less evil than you had intended.

Oh, sorry, that's not what I meant at all! Lord, Gwathagor has done such a beautiful job with Jord! I could never have done Khandr's murder so...gorgeously. I just would hate to see the Woman of the Secret Shadow perish. And the 'misunderstood' was just a joke about her not really being evil...

[littlemanpoet]

We need someone besides me to post next. Who will it be?

I think the Sil has the ambassadorship to the Ulfings reporting back to to Caranthir, so if Lachrandir does not survive, Tathren must.

Fastarr and Embla can continue to write their adventures (ahem love story) as long as the thread continues. Who knows where it might take them?

[Folwren]

I will write a post just as soon as I have both time and inspiration on my hands. That being said, the earliest time that I'll have time is Saturday...but that will be after a very, very, very busy week and my inspiration as well as creativity may be at a very, very low ebb. So.....Sunday evening? Monday morning?

What I mean to say is, I don't know when I'll be able to post. So if anyone arrives to post before I do, go ahead and do it. As of now, I believe that Lailath or Nogrod, or even Gwathagor, or Pio or Noinkling, if their about, can post..... Even Elempi could post for Thorn, possibly.

Dury, I grasped your joke at the very outset, I just wasn't sure if I'd interpretted it correctly. (Dumb internet...)

[Lalaith]

I think its my turn in the Lachrandir/Fastarr and Embla scenario, and will post soon.

As for leaving, well I think the game is reaching the final throes anyway, is it not? The tribe has been turned, yes?
(I'm sorry, but due to time constraints I haven't been following the story strands so closely that don't pertain to my character...)

Anyway, Embla and Fastarr need not leave immediately....perhaps Embla and Briga could have some sort of reconciliation, at least...Child, do you think that would be ok?

[Folwren]

Tell me if I've jumped the gun somewhat.

[Gwathagor]

Do I need to kill Lachrandir? Feel free to give me directions.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Do I need to kill Lachrandir? Feel free to give me directions.

Not yet. There has yet to be quite a bit of talk between Embla, Fastarr, and Lachrandir.

[littlemanpoet]

Also, I'm looking forward to Thorn being forcibly brought to the Ulfing lords before whom he will demand to see Lachrandir. They'll insist he tell them why, which he knows is suicide, but will do so anyway, every last bitter bit of truth, which will of course raise the stakes of competition between the brothers, for each will suddenly realize just how ambitious and ruthless his siblings is in regard to himself. At least, that seems like a pretty cool scenario to me.

And THEN they can kill him.

[Folwren]

Elempi,

I was definitely planning on a confrontation between the Ulfing brothers and Thorn. However, I was not thinking that it would happen at the hunt - there being so many people about.

How does Uldor and his brothers convince the entire following of Ulfings to change sides - from the elves to Morgoth? Just wondering...I hadven't thought about it in any great detail, see.

Anyway, I'm thinking Brodda should haul Thorn off back to the hall, throw him in the dungeon, and await the lords return. How's that sound? Or do you prefer to do it at the hunt? I can go along with whatever you most prefer, I think - so long as it's reasonable.

[littlemanpoet]

Well well, I've found my way back to this place thanks to Esty's xanga site.

You know, the question you pose, Foley, is a toughy, and it sort of reveals to me that this an entire rpg may be based on a misconception of the Ulfings as more wholesome folk than Tolkien wrote them to be.

Because they would have to be more orcish by nature to want to turncoat, unless they were really stupid instead and believed the lies of Morgoth. Either way, there's a major issue with how secretive Uldor and the other brothers have been, and I frankly don't know how to resolve it; unless it has to do with sheer Machiavellian threat on the part of the Ulfing lords..... ????

[Folwren]

Oh. That is tough. Whoops.

Or, somehow, the Ulfing lords will orchestrate something to make it appear that it is the elves who were treacherous and Morgoth worthy of fighting for...and somehow sway the people that way.

In this sort of setting, thought, would not the Uflings fight for whomever their leader tells them to fight for? It is a sort of feudal system, isn't the Commoners may not like it, but it doesn't really matter what they like - it's Uldor and his brothers who call the shots, and their people obey.

What do Pio and Noinkling, and the other village people- writers say?

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

Elempi, I had thought that Brodda would take Thorn to the great hall and ther await Uldor's return from the hunt. But it appears, from your latest post on the game thread, that Thorn is expecting to go to Uldor immediately, on the hunting field. What should I do in my next post?

[littlemanpoet]

My post does not appear to me to exclude Brodda taking him to the great hall. Continue with your plans.

[Folwren]

Okay, excellent. Just making doubly sure, my dear chap.

I am glad to see the forums seem to be back on normal track...

-- Folwren

[Folwren]

Elempi,

I took them all the way to the hall, as you've likely observed. If you wanted to put anything before that, let me know. I can easily edit.

Also, I didn't say to what degree of roughness the guard handled Thorn with. I didn't want to say 'led' as that could seem too gentle, depending on what you were thinking. I also did not want to say 'dragged' becasue that seemed too rough... So you get to make the call as to how he's treated.

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

I noticed that. Thanks. It depends on a few things I have to decide. Are these "yes" men who are trying to impress Uldor (or Ulfast), or are they simply guards with a job to do? I suppose there could be both types. And there could be three different camps of guards all jockeying for the top honors into the bargain. I'll have to give this some thought before I post up. I'll probably have a chance Friday.

[Nogrod]

If Lalaith is not going to post something soon I think I need to take it over then and write Embla's and Fastarr's response to Lachrandir.

It would be nice if Lalaith were to post it as I have made the last one for the two.

Are you around Lalaith?

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I noticed that. Thanks. It depends on a few things I have to decide. Are these "yes" men who are trying to impress Uldor (or Ulfast), or are they simply guards with a job to do? I suppose there could be both types. And there could be three different camps of guards all jockeying for the top honors into the bargain. I'll have to give this some thought before I post up. I'll probably have a chance Friday.

I had something to say to this last night at home...but I couldn't sign out of Finduilas' account, so I decided to wait until today, at work...but now I forget...

It was probably either in agreement, or saying I didn't know if the guard who took Thorn away was one to suck up to Uldor and the rest. So, Elempi, you can decide to do whatever you want and whatever is most interesting for you.

You're right, Nogrod. It would be nice if Lailath (and some others) showed up and posted. I really wanted to see what came of Mem and the young man interested in her.

-- Folwren

[Lalaith]

Hello people. Sorry, I got kind of disheartened by the multiple forums. I'll post shortly.

[littlemanpoet]

That's a great post, Lalaith!

I'm finding myself confused about location, however. Lachrandir and the Ulfing lords have been on the hunt, and nobody ever moved them in their writing back to town. So my picture of this has been out in the wild, with Fastarr & Embla running away from the village into the wild to find them (which would be hard, no doubt); and Thorn would have been walking in that direction too until turned around and let to the great hall. But now Embla and Fastarr are with Lachrandir in the great hall, I presume, which is, I suppose, okay, if we understand that they've traveled for perhaps 15 to 30 minutes to get there. Or am I missing something?

I'll post by the end of the weekend.

[Lalaith]

Elempi, I was also confused and now I come to think of it, I don't know why I thought we were in a hall. Would you like me to edit the post?

[Nogrod]

My understanding is that Embla and Fastarr rode into the woods to find the stream / pond where the hunters should be (as the animals could be find there the easiest) and then they met the Ulfings and the Elves in the woods.

Then Lacharandir asked the two to follow him...

My initial reaction was that it would be just some hundred yards (max.) away to somewhere they could discuss things in peace (without the Ulfings hearing everything they said as Lachrandir understood the delicacy of the situation). But there still was a hunt going on so they shouldn't wander too far off...

I think your post is just great Lalaith... if you'd just change it to a forest setting. That would be the easiest way of solving this after all.

Anyway we want to make it...

[littlemanpoet]

Lalaith, I'm in agreement with Nogrod; just change it to a forest setting and it works.

[Nogrod]

Lmp: Is this bird-stuff something like an opening for anyone to catch or are there some more sinister ideas behind it?

I mean I could write Fastarr jumping to action - showing his qualities as it would be - but if you have other plans then I'd rather not spoil them...

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I should have explained. The bird is my effort to bring Jord into the scene. I can edit it to meet with Gwathagor's intentions for her.

So basically, this is the set up for Lachrandir to be killed by Fastarr's sword in Jord's hand, and Fastarr and Embla to run away and then be implicated.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Sorry, I should have explained. The bird is my effort to bring Jord into the scene. I can edit it to meet with Gwathagor's intentions for her.

Somehow I was thinking about Jord here...

Originally Posted by lmp

So basically, this is the set up for Lachrandir to be killed by Fastarr's sword in Jord's hand, and Fastarr and Embla to run away and then be implicated.

Okay. Please Gwath make the next post and then I will finish the scene. Feel free to make Fastarr running to protect the elf and however it is you will then make it twisting his sword against the elf... Just tell me whether Jord should survive the scene unharmed or is it okay if Fastarr in my post after yours manages to damage her physical form before she leaves?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Somehow I was thinking about Jord here...

Okay. Please Gwath make the next post and then I will finish the scene. Feel free to make Fastarr running to protect the elf and however it is you will then make it twisting his sword against the elf... Just tell me whether Jord should survive the scene unharmed or is it okay if Fastarr in my post after yours manages to damage her physical form before she leaves?

I'll endeavor to read the last few posts, get myself into diabolical mode, and then work a post up in the next couple of days.

[Nogrod]

I'll wait for both your post and instructions Gwath...

And as I said feel free to use Fastarr if you make Jord to attack. He's a soldier (not a bad one) and will at least try. He will probably use his staff which is his preferred weapon as he's a big man being able to use it a lightly like using a stick.

[littlemanpoet]

I would prefer not to be the next person to post, as I did last, but if nobody else does by the end of the weekend, I will.

[Folwren]

I'll post for Uldor until after Nogrod has filled his save.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I'll post for Uldor until after Nogrod has filled his save.

Gah! I was quite happy to go on writing back then and decided to do something I seldom do and made a save... and somehow it has just buried under all the stuff. I'll be filling it asap. Sorry.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Gah! I was quite happy to go on writing back then and decided to do something I seldom do and made a save... and somehow it has just buried under all the stuff. I'll be filling it asap. Sorry.

You're fine. I didn't really post to hurry you along - I posted so everyone would know that I was still around.

[Nogrod]

I'll post it tomorrow.

[Folwren]

Sounds fine, Nogrod.

I'm leaving tomorrow morning early and will not come in contact with a computer again with enough time or energy to post until Sunday afternoon or evening.

-- Folwren