Dreams of what must come and what must be!

[Vladivos the Rider]

I know exactly what you mean. It all seems so...pointless, somehow. We lived for thousands of years without technology; we could have lived a few more. Yes it would be harder having to make fires and things whenever we wanted light, rather than just when we're camping etc. However, if 'technology' had never happened there'd be nothing to compare it to. *sigh* What depresses me is that we could probably never go back; maybe one or two, but would the world give up the knowledge of modern medicine? Industry? Eesh, the internet? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]
I don't have any memories of something different like you, but I've always loved trees, grasslands; my surname means 'descendant of person who lives in a briar forest.' I wonder, sometimes.

[Naz]

hehehe, I guess I'm the weird one here; I've never had dreams like this or any weird "not belong" feeling.... *goes back into her corner*

However, if 'technology' had never happened there'd be nothing to compare it to. *sigh* What depresses me is that we could probably never go back; maybe one or two, but would the world give up the knowledge of modern medicine? Industry? Eesh, the internet?

sorry if this is off subject but that ^^ just reminded me of books about Pern by Anne McCafferey where Earth becomes so corrupted, people leave that world of technology behind and move on to another planet to start life all over again.

[Arwen1858]

Nurantien ~ Welcome to the 'Downs!!!

I've been having this feeling of longing a lot lately, and it's been getting stronger and stronger. A longing to live a simple life, without all the noise, technology, traffic and all. Just a nice simple life. Like the Hobbits lived, almost. I wouldn't mind a house like the Bag End we see in the movie, only a little bigger to accomodate a human. I want to go somewhere, although I don't know where. Somewhere away from everything.

[Vladivos the Rider]

Yup, that'd be good. Nurantien (please tell me I spelt that right [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] ) - welcome to the Downs! Not that I'm exactly the longest posting person here.... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
I've never read Pern, but I've heard of Anne McCafferey.
Arwen, I (think) I know exactly what you mean. T'would be very nice indeed.
Vala, have you had any more dreams recently?

[Elennar Starfire]

I think this song really expresses this feeling of not belonging:

Grey Street by the Dave Matthews Band

Oh look at how she listens
She says nothing of what she thinks
She just goes stumbling through her memories
Staring out on to Grey Street

She thinks, “Hey,
How did I come to this?
I dream myself a thousand times around the world,
But I can’t get out of this place”

There’s an emptiness inside her
And she’d do anything to fill it in
But all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart

How she wishes it was different
She prays to God most every night
And though she swears it doesn’t listen
There’s still a hope in her it might

She says, “I pray
But they fall on deaf ears,
Am I supposed to take it on myself?
To get out of this place”

There’s loneliness inside her
And she’d do anything to fill it in
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now
It feels like cold blue ice in her heart
When all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart

There’s a stranger speaks outside her door
Says take what you can from your dreams
Make them as real as anything
It’d take the work out of the courage

But she says, “Please
There’s a crazy man that’s creeping outside my door,
I live on the corner of Grey Street and the end of the world”

There’s an emptiness inside her
And she’d do anything to fill it in
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now
It’s more like cold blue ice in her heart
She feels like kicking out all the windows
And setting fire to this life
She could change everything about her using colors bold and bright
But all the colors mix together - to grey
And it breaks her heart
It breaks her heart
To grey

[Naz]

This could just be cause I'm a big LotR fan, but whenever I hear "Forth Eorolingas" I feel... I dunno. Listening to it in the car today, I thought I was gonna cry, but... *flaps arms* I dunno; I bad bad at 'splaining stuff like this! *sighs* Well, that's about it..

[Vladivos the Rider]

Me too. And I think I know what you mean. Just certain pieces of music....*gestures dramatically at the keyboard*.
But on a more serious note, yes. I never realised what books meant when describing 'prickling' in your eyes, but I do now. I would never want war - of any kind - but sometimes I still wish I could ride out like that.

[Naz]

Ride out.. yeah. Especially when watching Eomer, Gandalf & the Riders charge down... in the *theatre*. When they charged down yelling, I wanted to yell too- reeeally badly... Not like I could, but, you know.

yes, i agree with you there, very powerful scene. It always brings a tear to my eye.

[Maethorien]

Even though I don't have explicit dreams like you guys, I know what you mean, because I feel these things.

I agree. Once I went to the Higgins Armory Museum in Massachusetts. I went to a demonstration type thing and when they asked for volunteers, I was chosen as the knight. I got to try on combat armor and when I did it just felt... right. Like it was supposed to be like this.

Also, when I watch the movies or read the books, I sometimes almost cry because I can't get there.

[Elennar Starfire]

OK, I had a creepy and cool experience! I was in math class, and I had finished My assignment, and felt like writing something. I started with an LotR related word, though I can't remember where it's from, then lots of other words came into my mind and I wrote them down. They sounded almost elvish, but they weren't. I can't post them now because I don't have the paper, but when I find it I will post them.

[Elwen_starmaiden]

I know of what you guys speak, I have a constant yearning to run and jump right into stories I've read, most of all LOTR. I also have had times of deja vu, although I swear it had never happened before. I wish I could remember some of my dreams but they tend to dissapate when I awake. But I constantly I feel like I'm out of place, that I'm so different that I'm not even within this time space. I mean, it could be that I'm just smarter than my peers, but what if its actually more than that?

Forests always draw me in, although there are none in my area. Yet I went to the arboretum in my area and I walked into an especially wooded area and almost felt, alive, like something from my deep unknown past had been awakened.

I know it sounds strange but I've been wanting to share this with someone for the longest time now. The problem is that the people around me are just, well, not to be mean but they're a bit empty headed. No one really thinks the same as i do, partly why I'm probably such a loner. Anyways, I'm just really glad there's actually a place where I could put this. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Vladivos the Rider]

Yup. I know one person who would actually believe me, and although I have other very close friends, I don't think they'd really think it was true; just say they did.
My surname means 'inhabitant of a briar forest.' I sometimes wonder.

[Maethorien]

I've just thought of something I probably should have included on my previous post, but I didn't remember it until just now.

As, I said, I have never had any dreams (That I remember) on this topic. However, I have a kind of memory-type thing of somewhere in a forest near a bit of running water, where I have never been in my life. When people are trying to get me to visualize something and they say, "Think of your favorite place," This is always the first place I think of, even though I've never been there.

[Elennar Starfire]

I've been lazy! Bad Elennar! *kicks self mentally* Anyway, here are those words I promised in my last post so long ago:

amarie cantarile sentaran colenada farlie samor belarco shorinta felarrin enctar tharinior beltan corinath saricle vante lalorma salcoral shevtal anarthlie shorcan tellor andorale nitalle corinath bethar samrin velarta arnimlot seranle sherale tarpelco acrotor shenta vandi tarclin sharvel carelth banca shaltar arinte var ancord vartal shavtan callie tarpa lango farastle sharliv

When it came to me it came in several sections, but I didn't mark them when it happened, and I can't remember now where the breaks were. It doesn't seem to me quite like sentences, because all the words are so long, and only one word repeats. Maybe I put spaces in the wrong places though, this is just how it came out of my head onto the paper. As I said in my last post, I know the first word is somehow LotR related, but I can't remember where it came from. Anyone know? If you do, please tell me!

[Fire-Galad]

Starfire, it looks like an incantation or something. I don't know if I had a past dream, but I think I saw the future. My parents used to take me to this one place and then we didn't go there for a long time. During that time, I had a dream that flowers were planted there. The next time we went there, the owners had planted flowers in the exact same spots that were in my dream. Weird huh?

[Naz]

I dreamt I fought & died at Helm's Deep.. only the uruk I fought used an axe, I used an axe, & an uruk threw a hand grenade, & once I started falling I realized I was dreaming & kept falling.

So that prolly doesn't mean anything, hm?

[Fire-Galad]

Back on the subject of not belonging. When ever I hear the Fellowship, Rohan, Gondor or Elvish theme music, I just...I don't know...I just feel like a piece of me that was missing is there and then I feel like that's where I belong. It's like if you took a child from, lets say the Elves, and they were raised from a very young age away from their people. They would live like their foster parents and the parents' culture and one day they see their own people and just know that's where they belong. That's the feeling I get sometimes.

[Evisse the Blue]

You guys are probably going to kill me for saying this, but don't you think these dreams and feelings are just wishful thinking? They do not reflect a reality that was, or will be, but they are only our desires of... something other than this that take almost concrete shape because we concentrate on them so much.

[Fire-Galad]

k, Blue then answer this question. How do you explain the dream in my first post?

[Evisse the Blue]

Fire-Galad, I don't.
I can't explain it, because it is one of the unexplained (unexplainable?) things that happen in life. But I wasn't speaking of dreams like yours in my previous post. I was referring to dreams that are too self-explanatory and seem to grant our every wishes. they are too similar to daydreams in that respect and serve the same function: escapism from a bleak reality.

I think I'll tell you about a dream of mine. I was in a city made of stone, an ancient city that reminded me of Ancient Greece (it actually was the Ancient Greece of mythology). I was there because I knew I had to awaken a dead queen, that was actually a goddess and who was to be resurrected everytime the city was in need. And the city was in need at that time. So the goddess needed to be re-awakened from her tomb to lead her people to war. I can remember very clearly the stone walls of her tomb, they looked more life-like to me than the monitor in front of my eyes right now. When I woke up I remembered the dream vividly. And more than that, I could instantly grasp its meaning: I was the dead queen, and the city, and the stone tomb and the people in need, they were all me. At the time I had that dream i was in the middle of a very nasty exam period, I had exams literally every other day, and I reasonably felt I wasn't going to make it, both psysically and mentally. I even said something like 'I need superhuman strenghts to make it'. And the dream metaphorically revealed just that. I needed to awaken the goddess in me to make it. And I think I succeded because I did fairly well at the exams. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

What I'm trying to say - before this proves irrelevant to the topic, is that dreams aren't to be taken literally, they are metaphorical in nature, symbols not concrete realities.

[Elennar Starfire]

Evisse- Of course dreams are metaphorical. But what it means is something you have to interpret for yourself. Maybe all of this is just wishful thinking, but I want to believe in it. Belief in dreams is what keeps reality from overwhelming me. If I didn't believe in a better world I would go crazy.

Anyway, here's some more song lyrics on this subject:

Spare a little candle
Save some light for me
Figures up ahead
Moving in the trees
White skin in linen
Perfume on my wrist
And the full moon that hangs over
These dreams in the mist
Darkness on the edge
Shadows where I stand
I search for the time
On a watch with no hands
I want to see you clearly
Come closer than this
But all I remember
Are the dreams in the mist
These dreams go on when I close my eyes
Every second of the night I live another life
These dreams that sleep when it's cold outside
Every moment I'm awake the further I'm away

Is it cloak and dagger
Could it be spring or fall
I walk without a cut
Through a stained glass wall
Weaker in my eyesight
The candle in my grip
And words that have no form
Are falling from my lips

These dreams go on when I close my eyes
Every second of the night I live another life
These dreams that sleep when it's cold outside
Every moment I'm awake the further I'm away

There's something out there
I can't resist
I need to hide away from the pain
There's something out there
I can't resist
The sweetest song is silence
That I've ever heard
Funny how your feet
In dreams never touch the earth
In a wood full of princes
Freedom is a kiss
But the prince hides his face
From dreams in the mist

These dreams go on when I close my eyes
Every second of the night I live another life
These dreams that sleep when it's cold outside
Every moment I'm awake the further I'm away

These dreams go on when I close my eyes
Every second of the night I live another life
These dreams that sleep when it's cold outside
Every moment I'm awake the further I'm away

[galadriel'smaiden]

I must word my thoughts carefully...

Society censors us to be tolerant (*cough*politically correct*cough*) Of everything people say or believe in, but this whole whatever you believe is true junk is just that- junk.

People feel like they dont belong because of how cruel people often are- and the unsettling feeling of wrongness carries over into everyday life. I suppose a book like this kind of does carry us into another sort of world, but I think people should try to find the answer to this feeling in Christ.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[Elennar Starfire]

this whole whatever you believe is true junk is just that- junk.

I don't think anyone tried to say that whatever you believe is true. It would be ridiculous, someone might believe the sky is bright pink, that doesn't make it true. The point is, believing in this doesn't hurt anyone, and as we can't be sure whether it is true or not, if you wish to believe in it that's fine. It doesn't make it true, or mean that anyone else should believe. Are they memories or wishful dreams? Does it really matter? If someone thinks their dream was a memory of a past life, maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. Does it affect you?

Not intended to be rude, just debating the point.

[Evisse the Blue]

I've been re-reading this thread and all the points for and against.
The thing is this: We all want to believe. Even when the realistic part of you censors dreams back into the unconscious (where they belong, actually ), I don't think there's any one of us that wouldn't get a shiver down his/her spine if someone would be able to prove that dreams are not just wishful thinking, they have a deeper meaning, and through them you can find your real self.

Alright - but maybe we don't have to look that far inside ourselves to find a connection. Look at this community, as well as other LOTR communities: thousands of fans, as different as night and day, with different personalities, different interests besides LOTR, all finding enough common ground to spend extremely enjoyable hours together debating ME issues or playing ME-related games, or being moved and shaken by the same book phrases or movie scenes. Does anyone find it hard to believe even now that what we share is a deeper and perhaps more significant thing, than what divides us? Maybe we do have a more profound understanding of things. Yes, I know I'm being vague. That's because that understanding rarely translates itself in logical terms; more often it is felt.

Another point I was trying to make is the similarities of fairy tales across cultures. I'm talking really marked similarities: one could call them plagiarism, only in an ancient time when these cultures had no way of interacting. Of course, these similarities can be accounted for in a variety of ways, but isn't the easiest explanation (as Occam's razor suggests) the fact that we are moved by the same things?