Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If the Seer dies late in the game and has not managed to reveal anything - or has left just some hints about her dreams, then there surely is a possibility of that problem. Although, if she doesn't have a wolf / wolves on her list, then it's not that a big one - and anyway, the wolves cold use the situation to their advantage (the seer has no "known wolf" and the QT votes for an innocent - the wolves leap on that: "let's follow the Seer!"). Hmm... let's think about that as well.

Well, could it be that at the point at which the Seer dies, the QT vote becomes revealed only at the narration but until that point it's revealed 2 hours before the LT deadline.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm all for the quarantined wolves being able to PM each other (by Night), but not to the living ones.

Agreed!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let me hear your thoughts on the cobbler-role. We can include or not, just as the majority wishes.

I must admit I'm not fussed either way.

[Thinlómien]

I did tell Nog I'd love to have a cobbler, it's true, but I think it really boils down to just being a handy tool to balance the game, it's like half a wolf.

18 players? I'd say four wolves, no cobbler.

19 players? Four wolves and a cobbler, I'd say.

20 players? I would at least consider five wolves (holy schmuck) in which case absolutely no cobbler! Or else, 20 players with just 4 wolves definitely needs a cobbler.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

And if the QT lot essentially counts as one villager, can the living lynch the dead thread as a whole, too?

What is dead can never die but rises stronger and more contagious.


++junior dead as tiebreaker

++including a cobbler


As for a tie in the game thread, my usual position on this is 'last thought, best thought', but if we start with a large village of 20+ people double lynches could be a nice way of speeding things up and making the QT*, er, livelier.


*(I think I'm going to refer to the quarantined as Cuties henceforth.)

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

*(I think I'm going to refer to the quarantined as Cuties henceforth.)

We should take it one step further and refer to them as Cooties.

And we all know there's no disease more frightening!

[Thinlómien]

I would somewhat advocate for both only revealing the qt vote at the deadline, and the first candidate to reach the tie to be lynched for one reason - both of these decrease the importance of the last minute voting. If everything of importance happens in the two hours before the deadline, it makes the game concentrate even more than usual in those hours which is not good for those in unusual timezones, those who might be at work during the deadline, or those who might already be asleep by then. The deadline is never perfect for everybody, so I would try making being around it rather less than more important if I have options.

But I guess it depends. Personally I'm out of work until the end of the month at least so I have nothing else to do than to stay awake all night and play werewolf How are the US/Canada 'downers feeling about the deadline?

[Rikae]

Finally got this account up and running again! Can I still join?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Finally got this account up and running again! Can I still join?

Absolutely!

Good to see you!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Whoa, this is going to be one amazing village...

And as for the game rules discussion, I'd also be for making the tie-breaker the first tied vote, not the last, for the same reasons Lommy stated. In most game I have played, that proved to be the better option.

Depending on the final number of people, I think we can have quite a lot of Wolves. Let's not forget that it kinda raises the chances for at least one succesful lynch early on, which in turn may help identifying the others, thus compensating for any numbers imbalance.

A Cobbler may be good, but I'd perhaps fear for them being sort of a third wheel in the QT, even more than the Wolves themselves.

[Loslote]

I'm neutral on the Cobbler, I don't dislike the idea but I feel like playing cobbler is probably not the dream Werewolf experience for the first game back in a long time. Anyway, I'm in US Mountain Time now, so I believe that puts the deadline at 3pm my time. I will definitely be awake. Occasionally I could be in a Zoom meeting at the deadline, but I'd probably still be able to post. I like the idea of the QT vote being revealed in the narration, especially if the QTs have info (Seers) or ulterior motives (keeping "Urwen" alive, if that ends up happening), I wouldn't want the living to give all their focus to trying to figure out what the QTs want.

[Nogrod]

Just for the fun of it.

I've been reading the CoH to find everyone Tolkien gave a name in Dor-lómin, living there during the Evil Breath aka. just before Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Adding to those the people who are told to live there later under easterling-rule (during Morwen's time there and when Túrin came back) brought me to 12 characters. Then I added the three outlaws Túrin hooked up with years later, who were said to come originally from Dor-lómin (and who I'd gather were not outlaws before exactly these troubled times and Nirnaeth), to reach 15.

So unless someone comes up with some I have missed or any other ones from some "unfinished papers" that have not ended up in the CoH, please let me know. Otherwise I'll fill the rest with some like "Aerin's mother"...


I thought first it would be fun to give you all new identities for the game to use (and then randomize the roles on top of that), but then thought against it for two reasons. Firstly, it might get pretty confusing in a big village if people had two nomers (try reading a mammoth Russian novel!). Secondly it would be too easy to hide behind the character-play: "I'll vote Andróg because he's such a shady person" (even if disease doesn't, at least normally, pick on grounds of moral integrity, one could argue that one caused by Morgoth sure could ).

So I'll be using them basically just in the narratives (and one will thus be revealed in every narration). If the Cuties would like to use them in their own discussions, have your fun with them.

So here's who we have in the village (a few to be added). The characterisations are from Tolkien, I have added nothing of my own.

Dramatis Personae

Húrin, of the House of Hador, master of Dor-lómin
Morwen Eledhwen, of the House of Bëor, Húrin's wife
Túrin, their son, 5-years old
Urwen “Lalaith”, their daughter, 3-years old
Sador “Labadal”, Húrin’s one-legged woodwright
Ragnir, Húrin’s blind servant
Túrin’s nurse
Aerin, a kinswoman of Húrin
Indor, Aerin’s father
Gethron, valiant old man
Grithnir, valiant old man
Asgon, strong and hardy villager
Andróg, a hard-hearted man
Algund, an old warrior
Forweg, a big and bold man

[satansaloser2005]

Fixed it! Sign me up.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

How are the US/Canada 'downers feeling about the deadline?

It would be preferable for me to bump the deadline by an hour or two (10 or 11pm GMT). The currently proposed deadline is at the same time that my workday ends and it would be nice to be able to give the last hour or so of each Day my undivided attention. But if that is not possible, I will try to manage.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Dramatis Personae

Húrin, of the House of Hador, master of Dor-lómin
Morwen Eledhwen, of the House of Bëor, Húrin's wife
Túrin, their son, 5-years old
Urwen “Lalaith”, their daughter, 3-years old
Sador “Labadal”, Húrin’s one-legged woodwright
Ragnir, Húrin’s blind servant
Túrin’s nurse
Aerin, a kinswoman of Húrin
Indor, Aerin’s father
Gethron, valiant old man
Grithnir, valiant old man
Asgon, strong and hardy villager
Andróg, a hard-hearted man
Algund, an old warrior
Forweg, a big and bold man

-Huor, brother of Hurin
-Rian, cousin of Morwen (they won't be married for another three years).

There's also a possibility Emeldir, mother of Beren, is still there. She was the one who led Morwen and Rian to Dor-lomim, and she'd only be 63 or so in the Plague Year. Nothing at all is said of her after her departure from Dorthonion other than that she reached Brethil, but it's certainly plausible.

Hareth, mother of Hurin and Huor, certainly should still be alive! She's only in her 40s or 50s, and it's not like her husband died of natural causes.

We know from Hurin and Huor that the children of the Lords of Dor-lomin were usually fostered in Brethil. It's hard to see how that could not be a reciprocal arrangement. You could argue that the Bragollach made it too dangerous, but if not, you have Brandir the Lame (age 4), great-grandson of the current Chieftain of the Haladin but in the direct line.

For that matter, Brandir's aunt and uncle, Hunleth and Hundad (children of the Chieftain's younger son Hundar) are 26 & 22 in 469; we know Hurin was still fostered at 16, so Hundad at least could be hanging out. Heck, Tolkien specifically outs him (through his son) as a coward, so he could just be scared - sorry, 'appropriately cautious' - of the trip home. (He'd also officially be 'fostered' by a man only six years older than him, which is hilarious.)

One last one... Gildis, wife of Hador Lorindal, grandmother of Hurin. Her husband would only be 79 in the Plague Year (were he not long dead), and wives of noblemen are often younger than their husbands. She could be of an age with Emeldir, and easily still alive.

Some of these are a bit of a stretch, but they're there if you want them.

hS

[Nogrod]

THE Ka and Sally!

What a party this is turning out to be!


And thanks for nice suggestions hS.

I was actually thinking of one possible narrative sub-plot last night, namely that Halmir had promised the House of Haleth would join the Union of Maedhros, but he died a year before Nirnaeth, so he must have been planning things before that - and surely he'd consult the brothers Húrin and Huor? And where would that take place? Naturally at Húrin's place!

Halmir would take his son and heir Haldir with him to be sure - and Glóredhel would insist she joins to meet their dear foster-children. And they would have naturally set on the trip (probably visiting other villages on the road) before there were any news of the Evil Breath...

That plan would then also make it possible to add Huor (and Hareth and Rían) in the village.

Putting Brandir as a foster-child to Húrin's village was an excellent idea. I'm so going to use that!

Let's see how many do we need (we're at 21 players already!) and how big a revision of the Beleriand Legendarium are we willing to risk. (think of Húrin and Huor dying already before Nirnaeth!)



Let's close one deal already now. We could possibly start the game already today, but as we have spoken of Sunday, let's stick with it so that no-one misses the start.

So Night1 starts on Sunday evening / afternoon, depending on where you live (and for Lhuna, on Monday).

Any comments about the exact DL are welcomed (thanks Brinn for letting me know your situation: I could possibly push the DL one hour further, but let's still hear if there are other wishes, or ones to support the move).

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Two questions.

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).

In the US the deadline would be according to the Eastern Time -7 hours (from Finland) aka. 5PM (Central Time would then be 4PM).

That's if I read the Daylight Savings stuff correctly.

How do these sound for you?

Anyone from somewhere else?

Deadline sounds perfect, but I could live with it being pushed.

I have no opinion on the details of the rules. I am sure I will enjoy the ride no matter what, even if it will leave me dazed and confused.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So Night1 starts on Sunday evening / afternoon, depending on where you live (and for Lhuna, on Monday).

Any comments about the exact DL are welcomed (thanks Brinn for letting me know your situation: I could possibly push the DL one hour further, but let's still hear if there are other wishes, or ones to support the move).

Thank you, kind sir. Unfortunate place on the globe, yes, but like you said I'm already used to it.

Pushing the deadline back an hour will just make my vote come earlier in the Day. No problem with me.

Originally Posted by Rune

I am sure I will enjoy the ride no matter what, even if it will leave me dazed and confused.

Ditto.

Looks like I have one day to reorient myself to CoH.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Rune

I have no opinion on the details of the rules. I am sure I will enjoy the ride no matter what, even if it will leave me dazed and confused.

This is more or less how I feel too, but just for the sake of appearing constructive:

Re: cobbler - I don't have a preference either way, as I don't like being one myself but find it quite entertaining when someone else is

Re: deadline - suggested 10 PM GMT (midnight Finnish time) is doable, though I probably won't be around that late every Day - and even less often if it's pushed one hour later since 1 AM is already very late for me. But more importantly, since there's no DL that's going to work for everyone, I second Lommy's suggestion of trying to keep all the important action from happening at or around that time where possible. So -

Re: tie breakers - I'd be happy with either first to get the votes or even *gasp* double lynches to keep things interesting. And likewise I'd like to avoid giving extra weight to last minute voting flurries so preferably not lynching the last person to get the votes in case of a tie.

Also did I mention how happy I am to be back here with you all? <3

[Galadriel55]

After a bit of searching I finally found the button for invisible mode. It has been too long since I did that.


I like the idea of a cobbler in this game, particularly since there are a lot of people and I think it would be more fun with an extra cobbler baddie than just a wolf baddie.

I have no input on the DL. I have a feeling that I am gonna overextend myself between school, work, babysitting, and this, and probably won't be able to sit around refreshing the page for updates anyways, and depending on the day my posts may be bountiful (work ) or sparse and early (babysitting).

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

After a bit of searching I finally found the button for invisible mode. It has been too long since I did that.

Oh my goodness, I had entirely forgotten about the need for that! For those of us with poor memories, could you explain how?!

[Nogrod]

Kath (and others who have forgotten it).

Go to: User CP -> Edit Options -> Use invisible mode


I have updated the first post of this thread with some general rules. Until Sunday-evening they are all negotiable. I'll add the rules for the specific roles a bit later.


We had a little chat (Lommy, Greenie, Legate and myself) and came to a conclusion that with 21 players (Whoa!) we need 5 "wolves"!

[Lalaith]

Nogs- you could always do a cheeky rewrite the legendarium - Lalaith and Urwen could be twins?

[Thinlómien]

I don't have much to add except holy gandalf I'm so excited in start in only a bit more than 24h

Also five wolves?

(Even though as Nogrod said, we did the maths in our family video call today, and if there were just four it would be pretty impossible for the wolves to win. It just sounds like an insane number!)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Nogs- you could always do a cheeky rewrite the legendarium - Lalaith and Urwen could be twins?

Plot twist - what if there were two girls originally, and in truth, only one of them died while the other one survived, and typically for his tragic story full of misunderstandings, Túrin never realised that his sister was, in fact, alive the whole time.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Plot twist - what if there were two girls originally, and in truth, only one of them died while the other one survived, and typically for his tragic story full of misunderstandings, Túrin never realised that his sister was, in fact, alive the whole time.

Urwen is dead, but of Lalaith speak no more? Hmm.

[Nogrod]

Okay. There is now a bench-mark post in the Game Thread showing the planned Deadline. It is posted exactly 9PM GMT/UTC.

To those who love to misread, it is not "Interlude, or a second breakfast" (or even "elevensies or a second breakfast").


A few little things.

Remember to check your PM-box - that there is room for messages there. When Night1 starts in 24 hours, I'll be sending all the special people a PM on their roles.

If you do not receive a PM from me in 24 hours, you are an ordinary (healthy) Villager whose job is not let the Evil Breath of Morgoth to get the better of you.

So don't ask in the Discussion Thread whether I have posted the roles yet...


Also I thought of adding a minor thing just to give one player some extra bloodpressure for the game. I'm thinking of telling Urwen / Lalaith (the character in this story, not either of the nicks) that s/he is her.

So an extra goal for the village is to keep U/L safe - and the one playing U/L will know it is him/her whom everyone is trying to keep safe!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Also I thought of adding a minor thing just to give one player some extra bloodpressure for the game. I'm thinking of telling Urwen / Lalaith (the character in this story, not either of the nicks) that s/he is her.

So an extra goal for the village is to keep U/L safe - and the one playing U/L will know it is him/her whom everyone is trying to keep safe!

Goal for the innocents, you mean?

But it sounds potentially explosive - as in, another venue for someone (including the real Urwen/Lalaith) to go shouting "wait! Don't lynch me! I'm Urwen!"

It sounds like an interesting concept, but I smell more potential problems (or rather, further confusion created).

[Nogrod]

Well, there is one more chance for the wolves to play a high risk - high reward -game. But until it is at the very end of the game, that probably is not going to be believed by anyone, as the real U/L wouldn't want to shed the light on her as that would mean more or less certain death in a Night or two. For U/L to be quarantined is a loss of a kind, but her speaking it out would mean also a very bad situation to the whole village the maingame-wise - so she would probably use some discretion.

But yes, that was just an idea. If others share Legate's concern / show why my argument is bad, I'm ready to cancel the idea.


On other issues. With 21 villagers right now I have added seven characters to the village (and taken one off). They are, with short description to those who don't remember them.

On their way to Húrin's village:

Old Halmir, of the House of Haleth, Warden of the Haladin
Haldir, the heir of Halmir, chieftain of the Haladin
Glóredhel, of the House of Hador, Haldir’s wife

Hareth, of the house of Haleth, Húrin’s & Huor’s mom, Haldir’s sister
Huor, brother of Húrin
Rían, of the House of Bëor, wife of Huor

Also, already in the village we have:

Brandir, Haldir's grandchild, fosterchild in Húrin's house, later called "the lame"


I did drop Indor, Aerin's father, from the list for the time being as he's only mentioned once in the CoH and nothing else is told about him but that Aerin was his daughter.

If there is still someone to join, I will add him back to the list.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, there is one more chance for the wolves to play a high risk - high reward -game. But until it is at the very end of the game, that probably is not going to be believed by anyone, as the real U/L wouldn't want to shed the light on her as that would mean more or less certain death in a Night or two. For U/L to be quarantined is a loss of a kind, but her speaking it out would mean also a very bad situation to the whole village the maingame-wise - so she would probably use some discretion.

So ensuring U/L's survival is a secondary goal for the village, and killing her is the secondary goal for the wolves? That could work. It's not too complex of a subplot, and it doesn't drastically change the game dynamics. Primary goals still remain the same, and this is a bonus.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So ensuring U/L's survival is a secondary goal for the village, and killing her is the secondary goal for the wolves? That could work. It's not too complex of a subplot, and it doesn't drastically change the game dynamics. Primary goals still remain the same, and this is a bonus.

So she's basically a powerless Gifted role, whose status at the end can make a loss (by either team) a little less painful?

An alternate but related idea just occurred to me, which I thought I'd put out there: she could be an instance of the Innocent Child power. As I recall it, the IC's ability is that they can at any time get the Mod to publically confirm their status as the Innocent Child - a sort of free Seer check, but with the obvious proviso that the wolves know who you are as well.

I personally think the 'protect/kill U/L' is probably more interesting, but if people are concerned this is another option.

A third option, and the one I thought was originally discussed, is that the QT is the one that wants to protect UL. Villager or Infector, it doesn't matter - none of them want to see the little girl wind up in their plague house. Meanwhile, the living don't care, except insofar as it colours their reading of what the QT is up to.

hS

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Urwen is dead, but of Lalaith speak no more? Hmm.

Lalaith, as we all know, survived to conquer Angband with her flock of mutant geese and defeat Morgoth by sticking a lizard in his pillow.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But it sounds potentially explosive - as in, another venue for someone (including the real Urwen/Lalaith) to go shouting "wait! Don't lynch me! I'm Urwen!"

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

It sounds like an interesting concept, but I smell more potential problems (or rather, further confusion created).

Exactly. The whole U/L idea is, pardon the pun, sick, and I love it.

That said, I like Hui's Innocent Child idea too.

[satansaloser2005]

I've messaged a handful of other wights in hopes they might join us. I've so missed you all! <3

As for the deadline, I have no horse in the race, as I can vote whenever.

I love this game idea, and the application of the dead thread is fantastic. Three cheers to Nogrod and company! I do have one question on the dead thread, though perhaps I missed it: Does this mean roles will be revealed upon death, or will that remain secret?

On the topic of U/L, I think an additional goal for the quarantined would be fun. However, if we never who she is, or if she's one of the first killed, it doesn't affect the game too much, so it wouldn't be an unbalancing factor by any means.

And of course we always need a cobbler, regardless of how frequently people assume it's me.

Tomorrow can't come soon enough!


x'd with our lovely Pitchwife

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

And speaking of that, what can we call the role to differentiate it from the players? Just keep going U/L to indicate it's neither player but either name?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Does this mean roles will be revealed upon death, or will that remain secret?

Yes, the idea is to reveal roles so as to not overcomplicate things on the Game Thread.

[THE Ka]

Hey sorry for the late check-in, but had to refresh myself since it's been several years.

I've never played a game with a cobbler role, but I do enjoy the idea of it in this set up. Maybe to help balance out the ordo to wolf ratio? Echoing Legate's concerns about the numbers per role. We may have quite enough players to set it at six? Or just add a cobbler to keep it balanced in the sense that they could inadvertently help wolves or do nothing to tip the scales.

Just to be clear, the voting deadline is settling on 9PM GMT for the game and 7PM GMT for the QT? Either time works for me, I'd just not like to be late being in the Pacific.

Thank you again for letting me join, hopefully I survive this time.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

There's a distinct lack of Nerwen, but I'd like to join in, if you'll have me.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

There's a distinct lack of Nerwen, but I'd like to join in, if you'll have me.

Yay! And agreed about lack of Nerwen, but idk where she is roaming... if she (or any other willing player) appears too late, then I guess we'll just be forced to play another game after this.

As for the U/L, my first reaction was "please no more compliations, plus it isn't such an interesting role" but ehhh... I guess it doesn't matter much either way?

Okay so we're now at 22. Does that mean cobbler time? Or only if we happen to get a 23rd player?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

Very simple. There is a difference between Urwen/Lalaith (the way I wrote it) and Urwen/Lalaith (the players). That could be easy enough to distinguish, if people can make sure they check their bolding?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And speaking of that, what can we call the role to differentiate it from the players? Just keep going U/L to indicate it's neither player but either name?

Or this.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Exactly. The whole U/L idea is, pardon the pun, sick, and I love it.

That said, I like Hui's Innocent Child idea too.

The Innocent Child is a very interesting concept, never heard about it before. But the original idea, if people do not have a problem with it, is okay too as an extra objective. Just if it doesn't make an already huuuuuuge game too much bigger and more complicated and lenghten the already long thread by another five pages of discussing whether to care about U/L at all on Day 1 alone.

[Nogrod]

Good to see you too Shasta!

And we're up to 22... with this number we'll add a cobbler. any more signing in's on these last hours before the game starts will lead to a consideration of exchanging that cobbler to a one more Infector ("wolf").


What I thought about telling the player whom I'd designate as "narration's U/L" (one more way of making the distinction) was just to give one player more pressure aka. fun - and maybe give the QT one more issue to mull over (I liked hS's idea that it would be especially up to the QT to save her). Now we might just make a ruling that with this quite special role (being a "secondary winning condition" for the villagers - or just QT - or "consolation prize" for the baddies) there could be a special rule also: that the person made to be U/L is not allowed to reveal or claim it. Or we could go with the Innocent Child -idea because that is nothing anyone would try to fake. Although in that case (with practically one free Seer-dream, albeit a dangerous one for the secondary winning condition), I think we might do well to think of the balance once more.

But that is something we need to think anyway, a least if there are any more people joining (looking forwards to seeing Nerwen entering the Thread).



We need some time to decide on the final ratios of different roles, and I need some to make thorough enough randomization of the roles. So let's decide here and now, that the latest hour for anyone to join the game is 6PM GMT/UTC today (aka. three hours before Night1 begins). So that's more or less like 7 hours from now.

Meanwhile, please let me know your thoughts on any of the matters we have discussed thus far. We need to fix them before Night1.

[Nogrod]

Two hours to the DL to join the game!


I have added three sections to the Rules (in the first post), concerning voting, technical things and then the relation of narratives, characters and players. Please go and check.

Any more rules you think we need to state?


Open questions - depending also on the final number of players - are the number of Infectors, using the Cobbler and/or Innocent Child (or a version of it). Depending on the last one, we need to define the kind of "secondary goals" (or the lack of them).

Any others that come to mind?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Two hours to the DL to join the game!


I have added three sections to the Rules (in the first post), concerning voting, technical things and then the relation of narratives, characters and players. Please go and check.

Any more rules you think we need to state?


Open questions - depending also on the final number of players - are the number of Infectors, using the Cobbler and/or Innocent Child (or a version of it). Depending on the last one, we need to define the kind of "secondary goals" (or the lack of them).

Any others that come to mind?

Thank you so much for staying on top of this. It's gonna be fun...

I have no opinions on the Infector/Cobbler question (not enough experience to form one). For U/L, my vote (or non-vote?) would go first to 'anyone sent the QT before she dies has a secondary goal to keep her alive'; after that I don't think I have a preference.

hS

[Boromir88]

I am uber pumped and excited. Thanks Nogrod for organizing this and everyone who has joined.