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#41 | |
Laconic Loreman
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This could be disastrous because Elendil wouldn't be able to refute the recipient's reveal. If the KM just tells the truth about the dream being innocent, that person can't refute "That's right I am innocent." KMs whack Elendil first, then the dreamed innocent the KM received next. And the KM recipient has the added defense "they're trying to get Elendil first, not go after the target or recipient" to stay alive longer. By the time everyone realizes the recipient was a KM it might be too late to correct it, all because the KM correctly admits to being the dream-recipient and then tells the truth about the target.
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#42 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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More likely that Elendil picks an ordo the first night than it is for any King's Men to correctly kill Elendil in the first night.
But yes, Amandil to reveal himself- with the hope the Ranger is watching to save him in the night. As for Isuldur's power, I would say not to reveal himself- if we already have Amandil making himself known we're giving away two roles! You are wanting a very transparent game aren't you tp?
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#43 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
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However, I'm always reluctant to avoid voting, even with slim suspicions. Votes are the only weapon for the village. Is Amandil ready to step up? Quote:
![]() And what happens to this plan if Amandil dies? He cannot be protected consecutive Nights. Known innocents are always a headache for baddies, but I do share some reluctance in having two Gifteds out so early in the game. Then again, there is Anarion. That's a lot on his shoulders, though.
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#44 | |||
Beloved Shadow
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And to Boro- yes, exactly, that's what I mean about Elendil electing not to have a Night 1 dream. Strategically he may have thought it better to play it safe and wait for Amandil to show up etc. I think really it's down to personality. Quote:
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#45 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2011
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I'd also feel bad not voting - votes tend to be the main thing to be read and interpreted, and somehow only relying on seer powers would make me feel like I'm cheating
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#46 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
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Quote:
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#47 |
Werewolf Psychic
Join Date: Apr 2007
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I had such plans for this role, too - I was going to be all quasi-Seerish and get murdered. Sigh.
Oh well. Hi, I'm your friendly neighborhood Amandil.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#48 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Quote:
Edit: crossed with Shasta...well then
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#49 |
Werewolf Psychic
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Regarding Isildur... eh. I'm kind of on Inzil's side in that I'm also reluctant to have two Gifted revealed this early, and I also feel like we should still lynch someone today. But then I'm well known to be bloodthirsty.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#50 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
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So, it looks like there's been more useful discussion that usual for a Day 1. And because of this, I'm inclined to believe that the phantom is innocent. It seems unlikely that a KM would suggest such ideas, but then, it is tp we're talking about.
As for the actual discussion points, I think we've already agreed that Amandil revealing himself would be a good idea. Of course, it's completely his choice, but it's definitely better for him to die when we still have gifteds. As for the different ideas for dream revelations, it seems to me that the three options (that have been thought of so far) have their drawbacks. In the non-cooperative natural state, nothing significant happens unless someone reveals a KM, though this could be abused at a later stage by a desperate KM to buy an extra day. It also means that we could get unreliable claims of innocence when someone is on the verge of being lynched, which could be quite chaotic. In phantom's 'three evils' suggestion, there's the possibility that Elendil could take the identities to his grave, as with the usual Seer, because in this scenario, he effectively acts as the normal Seer. In the 'open chain' suggestion, where all the dreams are public, there's the problem that the chain can be permanently broken and gifteds can be exposed. So I'm not sure what I think is best yet. edit: *Waves at Shastamandil*
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#51 | |
The Sweetest Spoiler
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly
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I'm here, kiddos. I'll be home in two hours or so and can actually manage more than just snark, but I am certainly around and reading.
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#52 |
Beloved Shadow
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Shasta- you lucky dog! When looking over the roles I can tell you Amandil is the one that jumped out at me- "Gah! I should've looked this over sooner and begged the Moddess for that role! I could reveal immediately and push people around!"
![]() But the task of pushing people around instead falls to you. So... any orders? I assume you're nixing Eomer's idea for a no-vote after that last post.
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#53 | |
Werewolf Psychic
Join Date: Apr 2007
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As for orders, though... hmm. Dance for me, minions! ![]()
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#54 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Ok, then. So Amandil is exposed. It's against my nature to trust Shasta, especially this early, but there you are.
![]() So, what now? I would still say we ought to vote today. x/d with all since #50.
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#55 |
Werewolf Psychic
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Supposing the KMs do ignore me in favor of looking for Elendil, though - as far as I could tell, Elendil can reveal to the same person twice in a row.
Actually, scratch that train of thought. If the KMs think they can kill me off and negate a dream, it might actually be worth it to them. Probably a good idea to vary the recipients. Or am I wrong?
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV Last edited by Shastanis Althreduin; 11-28-2012 at 03:10 PM. Reason: X'd with Inzil |
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#56 |
Werewolf Psychic
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Question for the consensus - suppose Elendil reveals someone to me and they end up being Anarion or Isildur. Ought I mention giftedness? Or stick with innocence?
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#57 |
The Werewolf's Companion
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Hi, everyone! Sorry I'm late. I got held up by a vicious pack of squirrels - I swear, I've never seen them this mad before - and I had to sneak around the back way just to get here. So, what's going on?
Oh. Right. That whole 'murder' thing. Bit of a downer, that. And I was so looking forward to a relaxing weekend! I suppose it's not a total waste, though - we've just got to take care of those nasty King's Men quickly, is all. What are we waiting for? [/IC] So. Not bad for a Day 1. Amandil is out already, which narrows our choice for lynchings - if we even decide to lynch anyone at all. I think this is shaping up quite well. I'll be online...basically from here on out. EDIT: xed with a lot of people. Also, lynchings tonight. Got it. ^.^
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#58 | ||
Gruesome Spectre
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x/d with Shasta and Lottie
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#59 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Innocent should be enough.
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#60 | |||
Beloved Shadow
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Unless someone can think of a better suggestion I figure that's certain to happen. Quote:
Or actually... Hmm... I dunno if they would or not. It still doesn't rid them of Elendil. But of course if they do successfully bump off Elendil they know where the next Gifted can be found. Bleh... I need time to think about this more clearly.
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#61 | |
Werewolf Psychic
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Quote:
Also, duly noted - "innocent" it is. Now that that's out of the way, it's probably a good idea to move on. I'll need to reread the thread - no one's jumped out at me yet.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#62 | |
The Werewolf's Companion
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Quote:
EDIT: xed with tp and Shasta.
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#63 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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#64 |
Flame Imperishable
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Wait, so does that mean that we've decided on the open reveal option? Doesn't that mean that the KMs get a free kill every Night (unless Anarion is cunning)?
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#65 |
Flame Imperishable
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This is an interesting idea to entertain, but we can't really do much about it, and it won't affect us until some sort of reveal.
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#66 | |
Reflection of Darkness
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Well, toDay seems a bit busier than most Day Ones I recall. At least I wasn't expecting to process so much info right away. But hey, substance is always a good thing. My brain's just feeling slightly overwhelmed...I don't know whether to attribute that to my headache or lack of WWing over the years. Maybe both.
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As for not voting, as difficult as it may be to identify the baddies on Day 1, I'm not sure not voting anyone would be a good idea. For one thing, if anyone ends up missing the deadline toMorrow to vote, they would be modfired. Also, was anything mentioned regarding retractable votes? It would be good to know considering retractable votes can greatly impact the outcome of a lynch.
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#67 | |
Beloved Shadow
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![]() Quote:
Meaning: Night 1: player X finds player Y innocent Night 2: Shasta finds player X innocent Night 3: player Y finds player Z ??? So basically, Anarion protects you tonight and the next night he protects player Y (the person dreamed of on Night 1, assuming there was a dream and that the dream was innocent). If player Y is guilty, then player X is selected to receive a second dream and will be protected by Anarion. If Amandil finds player X to be guilty tonight, however, that will demand a restarting of the chain. And if the baddies don't kill Amandil Night 3 then Elendil can send him another dream Night 4 (under Anarion's protection) connecting him to the random dream he selected Night 3, thus restarting the chain. (x-posted with many)
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#68 |
Flame Imperishable
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Yeah, I've been thinking about this. I think it's pretty neutral in terms of the rest of the gameplay if they are regarded as actually random, since it affects everyone the same way.
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#69 |
The Werewolf's Companion
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Also, if we're ever going to use those lists, toDay would be the Day. After all, we know (almost for sure) that someone got a dream, and that Elendil didn't know who Amandil was. So...
Random People Who, If I Had Dreamed Them, Would Be Guilty - Or At Least Not Innocent Eonwe Pomegranate Zil
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#70 |
Werewolf Psychic
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Not Innocent People If I Saw Them Under The Pale Moonlight
Boro Lottie Manwe Fair enough.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#71 |
Beloved Shadow
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So, does anyone see a problem with the dream target/recipient outline I presented three posts up? If not then I suggest we assume it is in operation.
(I realize Elendil may feel like I'm taking away his freedom or something, but I think it makes sense to have him serve the village in a predictable and organized manner rather than shoot from the hip, particularly if he doesn't have ample time to strategize. Similarly, I hope you don't think I sabotaged your game too much by clamoring for a reveal, Shasta.) Anyway, yeah, my list of three... I'll just go with the 3 I mentioned earlier, except one of them is the revealed Amandil so that would be just stupid. So... Inzil, Nerwen, Lottie then.
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#72 |
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So, it looks like my didn't factor in last Night's dream when considering the positives and negatives of either Elendil-plan. The chain seems unbreakable as long as a dream goes through.
Three-people random list Pros *Keeps those found innocent safe. *Elendil has more people to hide among. Cons *General knowledge dies with Elendil- each person given a dream could only know one identity, and so any claims would be impossible to prove until one of the two dies. *Elendil has to reveal at some point to be of any use. Neutral *Gives everyone amnesty from their 3-people choice. Open reveals Pros *People have innocents whose opinions they can trust. *Wolves can be revealed straight away. *Elendil doesn't have to reveal. Cons *Elendil has a dwindling number of people to hide behind. *Gifteds become known innocents, and so become easier targets for the KMs. I have an alternative suggestion: We do the 3-person thing, but when someone finds a KM they reveal. A person on the good side would die anyway that Night, so at least they take down a KM with them. And if there's a counter-claim of some sort, at least we have a known KM between the two of them. edit: x-ed with Shasta
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#73 |
Gruesome Spectre
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I'll go with:
1.Sally 2.Morsul 3.Nerwen x/d with Steve
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#74 | |
Werewolf Psychic
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
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#75 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Lottie, Eonwe, Inzil. Now some more catching up - I'll need to go to bed pretty soon, it's been a long day, and thus will have to vote. I think I will indeed vote - if you guys decide it's better to not have a lynch today, you can just tie it.
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#76 |
Laconic Loreman
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My random, but perhaps not so random guilty list of 3:
Eomer Inzil Manwe I say not so random because these are also the Top 3 I've been considering voting for. Who I have no interest to vote for today: Shasta the phantom Pom Everyone else is undetermined/neutral. Will explain these reasons after I eat.
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#77 | |
Beloved Shadow
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![]() I suppose the real question is, if everyone had given a resounding "no", would I have responded "whatever, do it anyway". ![]()
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#78 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
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King's Cronies
Manwe Boro Nerwen I think I read these two pages 4 times before I figured out what was going on so simple yet I couldn't digest it ![]() On a personal note number one priority for me not having tunnel vision this time around. It's gotten me into trouble in the past. See phantom's dream plan seems solid and good for the villiage but revealing Isildur as well? That's just a bad idea I think. I will be back in a bit gym and groceries... Edit: bolded list I'll be annoyingly present Friday, day off. |
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#79 |
Gruesome Spectre
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My (random?) list notwithstanding, at the moment Steve is probably my top lynch pick, mainly because I think not voting plays to the baddies more often than not.
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#80 |
The Werewolf's Companion
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Of the list I posted earlier, Eonwe topped the list because I actually did (and still do) feel a tiny bit off about him. Nothing anywhere near suspicion, just Day 1 guy feeling. Pomegranate made it on because I have always liked...her?...name. Zil was complete hat-draw.
All this goes to say, if I had to vote now, I'd go for Eonwe. I just feel like your posts are a bit too...careful. EDIT: xed with Zil. Um. Oh. Right. Hi there.
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