The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-21-2011, 03:06 AM   #41
doug*platypus
Delver in the Deep
 
doug*platypus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 960
doug*platypus has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

Perhaps the reasons for the seemingly contradictory usage of the name Sauron by his ambassadors are rank, favour, and even a measure of cheekiness.

Aragorn's statement that Sauron does not use his right name or permit it to be spelt or spoken certainly rings true for the lower echelons of Mordor society (to use the term loosely). The orcs we hear speaking in the book refer fearfully and respectfully to their master, but of course are not on a first name basis with him. The Mouth of Sauron and the emissary to Dain, as has been pointed out, did use the name Sauron. While I find myself loath to admit that Aragorn may have been wrong, about anything, ever, Inziladun may have been onto something by suggesting this as a possibility. I would say however that the reasoning behind Aragorn's statement, if we find it incorrect, was personal experience rather than reliance on outdated information. I don't believe it was an idle boast when Aragorn said there are few among mortal men who know more of orcs than himself. Perhaps, however, he had not come across the highest ranking denizens of the Black Land until his encounter with the Mouth at the Morannon, and so we can forgive him for his statement about the usage of the name. I would also add to this that when Aragorn says that Sauron is his right name, it is the opinion of himself and pretty well all the men and elves of the west. That of all his names, Sauron "the abhorred" is the one he rightly deserves, and is most often known by in the west.

Going back to my earlier point, I think that the usage of the name Sauron by the Mouth and the emissary is intentional by them, to show off the fact that they can get away with using the name. For example, I would most likely myself refer to the leader of my country as Mr Prime Minister, others working alongside him may call him Mr Key, and those members of his government closest to him could call him John. Undoubtedly, there are some people who may not be as close as they think they are. They would perhaps refer to him as John in conversation with their own friends in order to impress them, but in reality would not be on a first name basis with John himself. And so I believe it is with the Mouth and the emissary... they enlarge their own importance and station by the use of the name Sauron, whereas it is debatable whether they could get away with that to Sauron himself. Most likely they would need to refer to him as "my lord" or similar.
__________________
But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.
doug*platypus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2011, 09:31 PM   #42
Ren the Unclean
Newly Deceased
 
Ren the Unclean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7
Ren the Unclean has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug*platypus View Post
the Mouth and the emissary... they enlarge their own importance and station by the use of the name Sauron, whereas it is debatable whether they could get away with that to Sauron himself. Most likely they would need to refer to him as "my lord" or similar.
I find this explanation very satisfying.

I also liked the post which suggested that the prohibition against using Sauron's name applied only when he was concealing himself in Dol Guldur.
__________________
... and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.
Ren the Unclean is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:35 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.