Tol-in-Gaurhoth LXVIII: A Full Moon Over Innsmouth

[wilwarin538]

Well I'm afraid I have to head off to bed. I'll set my alarm to get up early enough to vote, but that still won't give me too much time, I got up crazy early this morning and work late tomorrow, so I can't afford to lose to much sleep. But I shall try!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Craydon1

As for giving people something to analyze, what if we figured out a question (or a few) that people could answer that would show something about themselves. Now these questions don't have to be blunt (ex If you happened to be a werewolf, who would you kill?), but something that opens you up for examination. I'll give an example and answer it: What, based on the role you have (publicly) in the town, would you have been doing last night that would make it impossible for you to be a werewolf?

I hope you don't presume the wolves among us would be honest?

However, I would have been on the wharf tending one of my nets until ten or thereabouts. Then, I'd have gone to my house and had a couple of knocks from the bootleg scotch I picked up you know where. And I'd go to bed.

[Nerwen]

Forgive me, my friends, for my lateness in reappearing, but the fact is that I needed to catch up on some sleep. I had a late night– one of uncles had just returned from a brief sojourn below, and had much to tell me of the wonders of many-columned Y’ha-nthlei.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Hello friends! I am here, obviously I have not much to say except that SPM looks disturbing and Inziladun looks fishy, and that's about the worst joke ever and not even new.

He looks fishy? And you roll your eyes?

Sure you're really blind?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I find it sort of funny that the posts this far have been pretty much people repeating and repeating that we have to be active and contributing. Of course there is the basic Day 1 problem of where to start the discussion in the first place.

Indeed, surely these monstrous outsiders will want to appear helpful, while saying nothing that might give themselves away. And yet it is also a fact that nobody had really contributed much at that point.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Narrations don't have hints, unless they're crazy ones that only the person being hinted at and the mod can understand.

Oh yes. I seem to remember a narration of that kind...

Edit:x'd with Inziladun.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Nienna (on admin thread)

So I'd like to be the badly timed weather please... Erm... I mean... I would like to be the innocent looking child with a disconcerting ability to predict the badly timed weather.

This was my post before rolls were assigned. McCaber shortened the roles to put them in the list. He put the innocent in quotes so that people wouldn't think that he was giving a role.

I do not appreciate being voted for based on these terrible reasons... and on being 'nice'. I don't mind if people actually legitimately finding me suspicious and then voting for me... that is the game... I understand as long as there are reasons.

Craydon (can I start calling you Crayon? Please? That is what I read every time I see your name... hehe) seems like the only person suggesting something interesting though I don't believe it will produce any wolves.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I hope you don't presume the wolves among us would be honest?

Yes, and it's not as though honest citizens can actually prove their alibis. I, as I said, was in the the bosom of my dear family– but as you know so many of them are unable to appear in public, and thus can hardly be witnesses to my innocence.

[Morsul the Dark]

Actually I voted for you mostly because from the story you were the only one not reallyy in the village until the funeral which I Do find suspicious

Also your reaction of running away

and the quotes thing was more of a joke.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

So the thing about Day 1s is that while we're in it they are really mostly useless, there's no one to really suspect and not really much info to go on, we basically just all pick someone random to vote for and try our hardest to find some logical reason for it (I know, no one likes to say their vote is random, but honestly most of the time it is, cause really, there's barely anything on anyone). But Day 1s are sooo useful on Day 2s, therefore we should all help ourselves out and post anyway, even if we have nothing to say or add. Just so that toMorrow we'll have something on everyone!

See, I just posted something that didn't really contain anything overly new/useful, but now tomorrow someone will have something to analyse regarding me.

Like what? You've once again said nothing except "yeah, post more, people".

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Actually I voted for you mostly because from the story you were the only one not reallyy in the village until the funeral which I Do find suspicious

Also your reaction of running away

and the quotes thing was more of a joke.

Morsul, the narrations don't contain clues to anyone's guilt. At least, they're not supposed to, anyway. (Right, Wilwa?)

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Actually I voted for you mostly because from the story you were the only one not reallyy in the village until the funeral which I Do find suspicious

Also your reaction of running away

and the quotes thing was more of a joke.

Oh... mods don't typically put clues in the narration. That is a worse reason to be voting me...

[Morsul the Dark]

But then the first vote IS entirely random? I mean I think it's more fun to play detectie with the story... Oh well The vote is cast whether for right reasons or not.

Though it may simply be you're shocked you were so quickly found out that you protest so, hmm?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

But then the first vote IS entirely random? I mean I think it's more fun to play detectie with the story... Oh well The vote is cast whether for right reasons or not.

I wouldn't say it's completely random on Day 1. One can get a feel for some people one way or the other. But later there is more to go on when you have one's voting record at your disposal.

[Hakon]

++Inziladun

He has a track record as being a wolf and he has gotten past my radar every time. I am not taking the risk of letting him live.

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

But then the first vote IS entirely random? I mean I think it's more fun to play detectie with the story...

It's not meant to be random. You're supposed to vote based on people saying suspicious things, and circumstances– e.g. someone's relations with a known wolf- though of course that has to wait for later.

There's often not much to vote for on Day One, though. All I'm saying is that you can't go by the narration.

EDIT:X'd since Morsul.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Hakon

++Inziladun

He has a track record as being a wolf and he has gotten past my radar every time. I am not taking the risk of letting him live.

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

Okay... I'm not that keen on voting based on meta-game reasons, either.

[Morsul the Dark]

Hakon interesting thought about SPM I had that same thought! But wouldn't that be obviious? I think it'd be someone sneakier.

Nerwen for example is very active bu mostly commenting on everyone else's thoughts not providing too much in way of theories. maybe because she doesn't want to give away her fellow werewolves?

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

But then the first vote IS entirely random? I mean I think it's more fun to play detectie with the story... Oh well The vote is cast whether for right reasons or not.

Though it may simply be you're shocked you were so quickly found out that you protest so, hmm?

If they put clues in the narration then the village wouldn't have much to do and it would mostly be the Mod...

I protest being voted for bad reasons is all.

Edit: x-ed with a host

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Hakon

++Inziladun

He has a track record as being a wolf and he has gotten past my radar every time. I am not taking the risk of letting him live.

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

It's your choice, to be sure. I'd prefer to earn a lynching with my actions in this circumstance, but there you go.

As for SPM, I know him only by reputation, which appears to be overwhelmingly positive. He may indeed be evil, but I'll not suspect him for anything beyond his actions here.

x'd with Nienna and Morsul

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I hope you don't presume the wolves among us would be honest?

Of course not. However, the way they respond would help somewhat. A wolf would have a different mentality approaching the question than an ordo. An ordo would usually imagine what their role would do (and probably have a bit of fun with it) whereas a wolf would try to distract the reader with, well, distracting things.

Edit: xed with Morsul, Nienna, and Inzil.

[Loslote]

Inzil - I'm not entirely comfortable with him, but nothing that I can really base a suspicion on.

Pitchie - same as Inzil, only his posts worry me more. He seemed to be jokingly trying to get on everyone's good side...but it might just be Day 1 behavior.

Hakon - hasn't been on much, and he voted for someone he 'didn't want to let live.' Interesting...and not in a particularly comforting way.

wilwa - gave good advice (state your suspicions), but didn't follow it.

Nogrod - rubs me the wrong way, but...no concrete evidence.

SPAM - potentially one of my top suspects, after Pitchie. However, there's no real reason. I just think he's probably for a wolf...though Hakon's post saying that he also suspected SPAM made me quite suspicious of Hakon, so...talk about inconclusive...

Roa - hasn't shown up, and Crayon says she might not.
Crayon (awesome nickname) - was the only one so far to give an interesting suggestion. He may still be a wolf, but I'm not overly suspicious of him right now.

Ni - I saw nothing either way - no obvious wolfishness or unwolfishness.

Nerwen - did come on, but did not post anything that stood out.

Legate - posted nice-sounding nothings.

Greenie - seemed over-eager to be helpful and far too enthusiastic for my liking.

Morsul - he's either a newbie making normal mistakes, or a wolf hiding behind a newbie mask.

Kitanna - I don't think she's been on.

Lairen - I didn't see anything outstanding.

Brinn - I don't think she's been on, either.

So far, my top two are SPAM and Pitchie. I'll probably vote for Pitchie, because I won't be able to get on again before deadline.

[Kitanna]

Ok, sorry, just got home from work. I'll be on now for a little over an hour reading and commenting. Whatever I don't get to before I go to bed I will finish when I wake up (roughly four hours before DL). So for now I'm off to read what I've missed.

[Loslote]

Okay, I won't be on again before deadline, so I'll have to vote early. Sorry.

++ Pitchie

[Craydon1]

I also have to vote early. It's also acceptable to call me Crayon if it makes you happy

++ Inzil

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Craydon1

It's also acceptable to call me Crayon if it makes you happy

Oh it does

[Roa_Aoife]

Alright, I'm here briefly. I'll have to sleep soon. A few things:

Morsul and Hakon: Roles are handed out randomly. The mod doesn't choose who each person is. So thinking of who McCaber would pick will get you no where. Also, no clues in the narration- it would be bad form.

Next: Blah, blah, blah day 1's are useless, no they're not, let's kill/ not kill the quiet people. Let's move beyond the basics. That debate will only have us going in circles and not finding wolves. People who have been perpetuating that discussion are automatically more suspicious to me than not.

12 hours in- someone must have something to suspect about someone. Right now Wilwa is striking me as suspicious. I need to read through again and take a closer look. It may just be a feeling.

[Roa_Aoife]

Crayon *heehee* and Loslote: why?

[Roa_Aoife]

Alright, having re-read, I realized that I mixed up some of wilwa's posts with Inzil's and it was just confusing me. I shouldn't do serious thinking after being on a plane for 7 hours.

I'll be back a few hours before deadline. Sorry for the lack of contribution. I'll be better on Day 2, promise.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

erwen for example is very active bu mostly commenting on everyone else's thoughts not providing too much in way of theories. maybe because she doesn't want to give away her fellow werewolves?

That's better. As it happens, though, I didn't have any theories about the identity of the wolves because it was simply too early to tell.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Of course not. However, the way they respond would help somewhat. A wolf would have a different mentality approaching the question than an ordo. An ordo would usually imagine what their role would do (and probably have a bit of fun with it) whereas a wolf would try to distract the reader with, well, distracting things.

I agree that it wasn't a bad idea, just to get people talking– but I wouldn't count on wolves having any particular trouble answering the question. Why would they want to distract us from it?

[Kitanna]

A lot of the early posts were "Day 1, bleh" or "DL isn't good for me Day 1 or Day 2" or "Good list Spm". For the most part not much other than "hey I'm here" posts. Which is fine.

A Little Green mentions all that I just did in her first post (post #11). Still Greenie does provide something to go on other than the afore mentioned posts. After her first two posts it seems the conversation turns away from usual Day 1 jabber into some more substantial.

Legate comes in next, commenting on what's been said so far. At this point he takes somewhat of a wait and see attitude, wanting to give those who haven't appeared a chance to speak.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As for the loud/quiet-debate - of course everyone should make an effort to participate to the fullest, but exactly how much everybody's fullest amounts to may and does vary from person to person. It's difficult to distinguish between a naturally quiet citizen, somebody distracted by menial duties, and a lurking wolf; in case of doubt, content should be considered as much as word count.

Greenie brought this point up as well about the loud/quiet thing. Inziladun later comments on this as well. Personally, I think it's easier to tell if someone is quiet as a playing style or quiet to hide guilt after Day 2, but that's just how I've seen it in the past.

Wilwa makes a point here that I'm inclined to agree with and yet wonder about at the same time:

But Day 1s are sooo useful on Day 2s, therefore we should all help ourselves out and post anyway, even if we have nothing to say or add. Just so that toMorrow we'll have something on everyone!

Now she makes a good point about how useful all these posts will be on Day 2. However, she calls for people to make noise and if some players have nothing to add than it'll be just white noise (adding absolutely nothing substantial for Day 2). Wilwa does this herself by stating how Day 1 is hectic and random, a well established fact at this point. Wilwa acknowledges this as stating the obvious, which adds white noise. That makes me wonder.

Later Wilwa defends this from Nogrod:

I was simply making a point that no one can make the excuse "I didn't post cause I had nothing new to add". I posted and had nothing new to add, therefore everyone can. Something useless is still better then nothing at all.

I'm not sure if I agree with that. It's good to post at least once before voting, but I don't think it's such a good idea to say next to nothing. Of course it's really a Catch-22.

In Post 31 the first vote is cast for Nienna by Morsul. I know he's inexperienced, but I'm baffled by his choice.

Back to Wilwa:

If it's even possible people should try to avoid paying too close attention to what the vote tally is, just focus on who you want to vote for and don't let others' votes influence yours (unless of course you're voting someone because of their vote).

I think she has some sound advice trying not to look at vote counts. Of course I doubt many will actually do this, but I think that's a decent idea.

In general comments (because I'm falling asleep): I think Craydon puts forth an interesting idea, though I fail to see it as practical.
Morsul's vote, confused at best. Nienna's response to it, justified. The situation, amusing.
Hakon votes for Inziladun, mmmm. Granted Hakon had to vote early, but voting based on games past seems a bit dodgy.
Like Hakon, Loslote and Craydon had to vote early, but I can't find any reasoning for their votes.
(sorry these last comments are rushed)

I have some more comments to make and few more players to bring up, but I would like to review some posts with a clear head before saying anything else.

[Brinniel]

*is finally here*

So I've been reading and have come across some startling information....

Originally Posted by Loslote

And haven't got much to say...or much to comment on.

Not much to say? You'd only have not much to say if you were hiding something. Leaning evil.

Originally Posted by wilwa

I personally think that aslong as whoever we lynch is not the seer, we'll already be better off then the villagers in some recent games. Besides, statistically it's pretty unlikely that another seer will be lynched Day 1, so I'm already starting off very optimistic. We'll get a wolfy we will!!!

Optimistic? Perhaps for alternative reasons. Only a wolf would be so excited about Day One. Wilwa is most certainly up to no good.

Originally Posted by Lari

I do agree with Wilwa about possibly being optimistic and that maybe we can get a wolf on Day 1! And I would also like to not lynch the Seer, I've seen that happen in far to many games recently.

Wait, you agree? Well then, you both must be wolves!

Originally Posted by Greenie

I am here, obviously I have not much to say except that SPM looks disturbing and Inziladun looks fishy

I don't understand what's so wrong about looking fishy. Fish does not equal wolf, thus you must be the one who is a wolf.

Originally Posted by Legate

This far, I don't have any particular feelings on anybody

No feelings on anyone after nearly six hours into the Day? Shame on you. Wolf.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As for the loud/quiet-debate - of course everyone should make an effort to participate to the fullest, but exactly how much everybody's fullest amounts to may and does vary from person to person. It's difficult to distinguish between a naturally quiet citizen, somebody distracted by menial duties, and a lurking wolf; in case of doubt, content should be considered as much as word count.

You're making too much sense. Very suspicious.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Think about that unless you had more important things to think about...

Of course there's more important things to think about. Like....bunny rabbits. How dare you try to be productive on Day One. A wolfish move if I ever saw one.

Originally Posted by Cray

So I'm getting that Day 1s are a little slow. Fair enough. Most of my post will be between 5-10 cst which means I won't have much last min input since the deadline is when I'm at work. Hmmmm....oh before I forget Roa is currently on a plane home, so if she doesn't get a post in today that's why. As for giving people something to analyze, what if we figured out a question (or a few) that people could answer that would show something about themselves. Now these questions don't have to be blunt (ex If you happened to be a werewolf, who would you kill?), but something that opens you up for examination. I'll give an example and answer it: What, based on the role you have (publicly) in the town, would you have been doing last night that would make it impossible for you to be a werewolf? Now my answer: I would have been playing my guitar outside a tavern well into the night to try to get enough change for a room or a meal. Just a suggestion to give people something to work with.

I don't like the formatting of this post. Probably a baddie.

Originally Posted by Spm

Don't worry Morsul, you haven't voted yet. Voting is done in a particular way, with double plus signs and in bold type, as follows:

++Name of person you are voting for

Aw, look at that. Spm is being nice trying to help out our confused newbie. But everyone knows that helpful equals wolf. Definitely evil.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Morsul then shuffles off into the stacks to look for the official WWGame Guide... Dewey Don't fail me now!

What's this, a clueless newbie? Watch out people, he's probably a wolf just playing the ignorant newbie card.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Forgive me, my friends, for my lateness in reappearing, but the fact is that I needed to catch up on some sleep.

Apologising is one of the classic indicators of wolvery. So I think everyone can guess what my conclusion is...

BAD WOLF! BAD WOLF!

Originally Posted by Nienna

I do not appreciate being voted for based on these terrible reasons... and on being 'nice'. I don't mind if people actually legitimately finding me suspicious and then voting for me... that is the game... I understand as long as there are reasons.

Nienna is dissatisfied with Morsul's vote for her. But of course any wolf would feel uncomfortable about receiving the first vote of the Day. Obviously evil.

Originally Posted by Inzil

I wouldn't say it's completely random on Day 1. One can get a feel for some people one way or the other. But later there is more to go on when you have one's voting record at your disposal.

Lies! Day One voting should be completely random. Only a wolf would try to come up with a clever reason to vote someone. And how very suspicious of you to say otherwise.

Originally Posted by Hakon

++Inziladun

He has a track record as being a wolf and he has gotten past my radar every time. I am not taking the risk of letting him live.

Voting for someone only based on previous games is a very weak reason indeed. And only a baddie would use such weak reasoning behind a vote. How very evil of you.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Whatever I don't get to before I go to bed I will finish when I wake up (roughly four hours before DL).

Sleep? During the Day? Then what kept you up at Night? *coughwerewolfcough*

Originally Posted by Roa

Alright, having re-read, I realized that I mixed up some of wilwa's posts with Inzil's and it was just confusing me. I shouldn't do serious thinking after being on a plane for 7 hours.

Excuses, excuses. Only werewolves need excuses.




In conclusion: You all must be werewolves. *runs away screaming*





Is it just me, or does everyone seem paranoid toDay?

[Brinniel]

On a more serious note...

Originally Posted by Hakon

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

Just because a well-known player hasn't played for awhile does not make him a wolf. For example, Formy joined one of the games I modded, playing for the first time in approximately two years. Yet he was no more than an ordo. You don't know how the mod picks roles; often it's completely random. It's also the same sort of rule that just because someone was a wolf in last game doesn't mean they won't be in this one (I was once a wolf three times in a row). Sometimes it can be tempting to go off meta-reasoning, but it's generally a bad idea and much smarter to actually suspect based on behaviour. And that's how it should be done.

As for the latest two votes... While I can understand the need to vote early, why give no reason? Loslote at least gives some analysis beforehand, but still it's not conclusive. Even if it does happen to be a random vote, at least state so instead of leaving us wondering why.

I don't know if I'll post anymore tonight but while I won't be getting up too early, I should be around for the last hour of the Day. So while you can't expect any wordy analyses from me, I will hopefully be around long enough to get a better read on everyone and make a proper vote.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

What else would I mean? And what a strange comment. I am not quite sure what to make of it, but I will be keeping an eye on you.

Your strange comment would be this one(bolded for easy reading)

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

On a more serious note, I am expecting everyone to play their full part toDay (and, indeed, every Day). When it comes to voting, we won’t have a lot to go on. But we’ll have even less if people don’t speak up, play their part, make their opinions known. I hereby give warning that I shall not take kindly to those who seek to hide in the quiet shadows of the thread.

This strikes me. I know in context it could be "play our parts as good villagers and find the wolves" but at the same time I took it as a sort of signal. Like the Agent to his wolves.

Originally Posted by Hakon

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

I know its been said but this is...not the greatest reasoning. While sure he could have a role, why would it have to be a wolf? This could a wolf's backhanded way of throwing off suspicion though.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Of course not. However, the way they respond would help somewhat. A wolf would have a different mentality approaching the question than an ordo. An ordo would usually imagine what their role would do (and probably have a bit of fun with it) whereas a wolf would try to distract the reader with, well, distracting things.

What distracting things? Why would a wolf make their sentence more distracting? Wouldn't they want it to be perfectly normal? I could write a whole long descriptive paragraph about what I was doing that could say absolutely nothing. It could be very distracting, but I'm innocent so that means nothing.

If we are going to go with this idea of what we were doing the night before: I was curled up in bed reading a book.

[Lariren Shadow]

Vote count!:

Morsul --> Nienna
Hakon --> Inzil
Loslote --> Pitch
Crayon --> Inzil(2)

Inzil 2, Nienna and Pitch 1.

A list!

Inzil: Doesn't set off any alarms.

Pitchwife: Seems innocent to me.

Loslote: Not newbie right? Interesting comment about distracting narratives...maybe sniffing out wolves? Or not. Needs watching.

Hakon: The comment about SPM, now that I realize taken in with his, could be signaling to each other. Not good. Don't have a good feeling about him at all.

Wilwa: She has good points and is optimistic, we should keep her around.

Nog: Seems like typical Nog. I have no idea if that means he's innocent or guilty.

SPM: Needs watching. I find him suspicious for reasons in my last post. Not saying should go after toDay, but he does deserve watching.

Roa: Seems pretty innocent.

Crayon: Newbie. Newbie pass.

Nienna: Pretty innocent looking.

Nerwen: No read.

Legate: Not setting off any alarms.

Greenie: Interesting things to say, not suspicious.

Morsul: Newbie to werewolf? Gets newbie pass.

Kitanna: Nothing much at all.

Brinn: Thinks everyone is a wolf. Paranoid, needs watching.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I am here, back from my studies of the Pnakotic Manuscripts. Most interesting things I have uncovered there this time. Did you happen to know that the cannibal Gnopkekhs, before they descended from the fearful plateau of Leng, did...

Whatever, oh, yes. The Werewolves. Okay, here be my thoughts on people up to now...

SpM seems actually very nice and active. Okay, now "nice" can be seen as a derogatory term, but it's not how I mean it now. Supported by the fact that I haven't played with him for a long time, it's very likely that I won't be voting for him toDay at least.

Morsul (does that mean Black Wind? Wonderful, I guess it's fitting here) the Dark is new around here. (Morsul - the Mod of course never reveals or hints at the identity of the WWs. And that goes for everything. I.e. if the Mod posts that somebody found the dead body, somebody came running from behind a corner etc. it's no indication to the people's roles. All this work is for us, the narrations are only narrations. The important information is always only who was killed, what was his role, or other things that might have happened related to the real - not narrational - roles.)
Morsul does not seem any suspicious to me, he just needs to get into the game. For certain, anyway, I am not going to vote him on the first Day, as this is his first game.

Noggoth is more or less his usual self, maybe a bit more, how to say it, ruthless in his attempts to initiate some events in the game, but then, he speaks sensibly a lot and also, let's see what he posts now.

Speaking of him, though...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Why wouldn't you do it Wilwa?

And I actually mean it whatever your role is. If you get lynched early because of what you say but thus help us others to spot a wolf you'll be a hero. So be brave and open your mind! Why can't you?

And so why didn't YOU do that, Noggoth, since you were so keen on staring some actual debate?

I don't feel any suspicious about A Little Green Star-Shaped Stone, at least not this far.

Maybe one I feel rather uneasy about right now is Pitchwife. It is some things he says, and the general tone of his posting. But I would probably need to re-check what he said and also see if he posts more in the future.

I really like Craydon on first sight, the idea of asking people questions or stuff like that is very nice and shows that he means well with this village (ahem...). I am not sure if asking the question you suggested would be worth anything important, but anyway the thought itself is good and mainly, like I said, it's an indication of involvement rather than trying to flow with the stream, down to the mouths of the ocean where the worms feed on the dead bodies. Whatever.

wilwa tries to argue with Nog, or so to say, respond to him, well, I think I see her point, though it's hard to say if she is speaking genuinely or not. Not particularly suspicious or anything, but not any innocent-looking either.

Hakon at first pops in and does nothing - okay, I see, might be busy, but it will be nice to see more in the future, will ye, Hakon? *scary gaze* Oh but okay, he posts more later... but then...

Originally Posted by Hakon

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

Surely this is no reasoning here! And the mods often assign their roles randomly. And even if they didn't, they won't tell us. That would be unfair. It's called meta-game reasoning. We seem to be having too much of that around here this time already, thank you.
Anyway, I am a bit unnerved by Hakon, actually. And the reason for his vote is just plain... well, evil (okay, the word's meaning out of the context of this village). Though I still well remember how he was lynched last time innocent on Day 1... And I can imagine even an innocent Hakon to vote in such a, well, rude manner.

I do not have any particular feeling about Loslote.

Nerwen looks more or less okay, at least trying to do something.

I am slightly worried of Inzil, too. But nothing in particular.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I hope you don't presume the wolves among us would be honest?

Of course they won't, but that's the point. The reaction is the point, not the answer. It's a difference for somebody when he has to lie.

As for Lari, I actually don't see anything suspicious about her, and seems actually quite good to me (even with that SpM comment, which is something I can see as reasonable, not saying that I agree with it, but I can see an innocent posting that).

Originally Posted by Nienna

I do not appreciate being voted for based on these terrible reasons... and on being 'nice'. I don't mind if people actually legitimately finding me suspicious and then voting for me... that is the game... I understand as long as there are reasons.

Of course Morsul's vote for Nienna has no real substance, but then why are you so overreacting, Nienna? You behave as if half of the village was after you.

Originally Posted by Ni

Craydon (can I start calling you Crayon? Please? That is what I read every time I see your name... hehe) seems like the only person suggesting something interesting though I don't believe it will produce any wolves.

Now that was just hilarious We don't need to produce any Wolves, I think, thank you, we probably have enough just as it is...

Roa, looks Roa, but nothing special to base my thoughts on about her yet.

Kit also, nothing special, nothing suspicious this far.

Brinn - okay, what was THAT first post, some sort of madness. Okay, normal in this village, actually. Anyway, but as for the serious part, I can't get any proper read on her at least yet.

Okay, but is that it? I hope so. Anyway, I guess that's from me now, I will probably pop up yet before the DL, and then probably in the last instance around it to vote.

[wilwarin538]

So this will be fairly rushed, cause I'm exhausted and have to go to school soon. No way I'm making it back on toDay (class right up until past DL, no computers allowed in this one). So some comments and then my vote:

Originally Posted by Nienna

This was my post before rolls were assigned. McCaber shortened the roles to put them in the list. He put the innocent in quotes so that people wouldn't think that he was giving a role.
...
Craydon (can I start calling you Crayon? Please? That is what I read every time I see your name... hehe) seems like the only person suggesting something interesting though I don't believe it will produce any wolves.

Thanks for clarifying the "innocent" thing! And I thought the same thing about Craydon, haha. (both about his name and his comments)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Morsul, the narrations don't contain clues to anyone's guilt. At least, they're not supposed to, anyway. (Right, Wilwa?)

Ahaha, no they're not supposed to....but I am a rebel

Originally Posted by Hakon

++Inzilidun

He has a track record as being a wolf and he has gotten past my radar every time. I am not taking the risk of letting him live.

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

What???? I can assure you that as a mod I did not choose someone's role by saying "Oh this player has been a Wolf sooo many times, I'll make him one in my game too". So I doubt other mods do that. Just cause he's been one before does not make him one here.

And keep in mind, if you insist to use that sort of logic for SPM, that wolf is not the only non-ordinary innocent role. And most roles are chosen randomly any who, so it's not that unlikely that he's innocent.

So...Hakon has played many games, and therefore should have some better logic by now I would think. His vote and comments are weird and I don't like them so

++ Hakon

Sorry I was arround so randomly toDay, next Day should be far better from me.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

It's called meta-game reasoning. We seem to be having too much of that around here this time already, thank you.

Exactly. Although it should be added that it's difficult, or probably even impossible , to ignore all the meta-reasons one has for suspecting people on Day1. But it's a different thing to have suspicions based on some meta-reasons than to try and argue for ones votes with them.

Like I just can't help it that because Greenie has so totally fooled me a few times lately and I have the feeling she's always a baddie it makes me suspect her also on this Day. Or if I thought the mod had made a slip in the narration I couldn't help that thought affecting my suspicions, but I couldn't argue my "case" based on that slip as it would be kind of "unsporty" (some of you might remember Glirdan's game where he slipped the gender of the last wolf in the narration that one being the only one of that sex left).

So let's try not to suspect people based on meta-reasons and at least not use them as arguments...


Okay. Off with the meta-reason discussion with me.

I need to make a pie for the girls but I will think while doing it. But just from the last posts a few little things...

Somehow the way how Lari makes her comment on wilwa strikes me:

Originally Posted by Lari

Wilwa: She has good points and is optimistic, we should keep her around.

It may be that she just wished to express herself differently (there are many of whom she says only "seems innocent" or "pretty innocent looking" etc.). But of wilwa she says that we should keep her around with actual backing / arguments for why she thinks so. And I think there had been some suspicions raised on wilwa, so that would fit "nicely" ...

Secondly I do share Legate's concern on Nienna. The way she reacted to one badly backed vote early in the voting really looks like she felt the whole village was after her. And that's something the wolves tend to feel more easily than innocents.

EDIT: X'd with wilwa

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Sleep? During the Day? Then what kept you up at Night? *coughwerewolfcough*

That's shenanigans my dear Brinn, simple shenanigans.

Seriously though I've had some time to mull things over and clear my head. So before continuing where I left off last night I have a few general comments to make.

1) In regards to voting early, namely Loslote and Crayon. Neither one gave a reason, not even a terrible reason like "I picked this name out of a hat." Hakon also voted early, but he had a reason for his choice (not a good reason, but a reason). I see I'm not the only one who thinks like this:

Originally Posted by Brinn

As for the latest two votes... While I can understand the need to vote early, why give no reason? Loslote at least gives some analysis beforehand, but still it's not conclusive. Even if it does happen to be a random vote, at least state so instead of leaving us wondering why.

2) Morsul's vote, not his own confused vote, but Nienna's reaction and reactions to Nienna's reaction. Nienna became annoyed, or maybe angry is a better word, when she discovered Morsul's faulty reasoning for his vote for her. She stated she didn't like being voted for in such a manner. This had Legate saying:

Of course Morsul's vote for Nienna has no real substance, but then why are you so overreacting, Nienna? You behave as if half of the village was after you.

And Nogrod agrees with it.
Morsul makes a comment on the subject too:

Though it may simply be you're shocked you were so quickly found out that you protest so, hmm?

Now, Nienna does react unusually strong to Morsul's vote. But, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, at the time of Morsul's vote Nienna hadn't spoken yet had she? I myself was annoyed and angry Morsul listed me as a suspect in one of his earliest posts based on the narration. I see where Nienna's response would be seen as a red flag, but I'm having a hard time finding it overly suspicious.

3) I spoke considerably on Wilwa's suggestion for everyone to talk more, regardless of what they said in my last post and I'd like to finish up a thought on that.

Originally Posted by Wiliwa[/quote

But Day 1s are sooo useful on Day 2s, therefore we should all help ourselves out and post anyway, even if we have nothing to say or add. Just so that toMorrow we'll have something on everyone!

As I said before she makes a good point about these posts helping on Day 2, but this suggestion worries me as well. If we have half the village just repeating the same things or just doing random in character gibberish then we have nothing Day 2 and it essentially becomes almost like a second Day 1. I think everyone should post, but if people flood the thread with nonsense it becomes just as easy for wolves to hide behind that as it is to hide behind a mask of quietness. Wilwa should know this and that makes me wonder why she put the idea of "make lots of noise" out there in the first place.

Well I'm off to finish what I started before bed. I'll be around and hopefully posting until half an hour before DL.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Well then I'll vote this post thinking about it after what's been said
Sorry Nienna I feel like a jerk for using a technicality to change my vote so I have to go with my original impulse I'll be more careful in the future

++Nienna

I think I've explained Why I kept Nienna's vote sure the reasoning may have been flawed But as we can't retract votes we're stuck with this one I'll be more careful in the future that said Nienna's reaction may have been justified but forgive and forget, or is a werewolf's forgiveness hard to come by?

[Pitchwife]

Present and reading. The village seems to have woken up, and I'll need a while to catch up with everything, but while I'm at it -

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

And yet you seem rather eager to defend Inzil and accuse me, Pitchwife.

No, merely commenting on your words regardless of who they referred to. If I'd seriously defend Zil, odds are he'd turn out a wolf - it's a fact of experience.
As for Cray's question, I was soundly asleep, dreaming of the glories that await us in many-columned Y'ha-nthlei after the final transformation...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

So...Hakon has played many games, and therefore should have some better logic by now I would think. His vote and comments are weird and I don't like them so

++ Hakon

Okay, but THAT screams "wolf" to me. Because really. I completely disagree with what Hakon did (and I said so), but then, if you try to think of it deeper... Would Hakon do such a thing as a Wolf? Or, is it any indication of his wolfishness? Also, like I said, I can well imagine even innocent Hakon being so "rude" and vote in the way he did. Also, what is the Wolves' purpose? It's to find a person whom the others suspect and vote for him/her as well, in order to hide in the crowd, or to find somebody to whom they can draw the suspicion of other villagers. But would what Hakon just did be a good opportunity to find a target for the village? I doubt it. I doubt Hakon-Wolf could have hoped for getting Inzil lynched by saying what he did. These were no reasons which would create a bandwagon.
But voting for Hakon at the moment when it seems that there is a good point to catch on, now that is what wilwa does. And that actually looks like a good start of a bandwagon, indeed! That's why it screams wolfy to me. And anyway, wilwa, if you are accusing Hakon of having bad logic and that he should be better, look at your own vote for him. "I don't like him" is about as bad logic as Hakon uses. No, really. You are either being hypocritical, or being a Wolf.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Now, Nienna does react unusually strong to Morsul's vote. But, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, at the time of Morsul's vote Nienna hadn't spoken yet had she? I myself was annoyed and angry Morsul listed me as a suspect in one of his earliest posts based on the narration. I see where Nienna's response would be seen as a red flag, but I'm having a hard time finding it overly suspicious.

Not really, but one mistaken vote of one newbie? It can be seen where Morsul is coming from. My point is, had I been in Ni's place, I would have ignored his vote. It has no real substance behind it, so why should it worry me? Especially if Morsul realised that he cannot base his suspicions on things like that. Everything's all right, then. I got one vote, but happens (if he voted for me at the moment when I already have four votes and am at the risk of being lynched, then it would be something different). Of course it's possibly a shock at first, but then when you see the reasons and the background for it, it really isn't an issue. And I am saying this because I got the feeling about Ni that her reaction would not have been so different from mine when it comes to that.

Originally Posted by Kit

3) I spoke considerably on Wilwa's suggestion for everyone to talk more, regardless of what they said in my last post and I'd like to finish up a thought on that.
As I said before she makes a good point about these posts helping on Day 2, but this suggestion worries me as well. If we have half the village just repeating the same things or just doing random in character gibberish then we have nothing Day 2 and it essentially becomes almost like a second Day 1. I think everyone should post, but if people flood the thread with nonsense it becomes just as easy for wolves to hide behind that as it is to hide behind a mask of quietness. Wilwa should know this and that makes me wonder why she put the idea of "make lots of noise" out there in the first place.

That's a fair point too, though personally I am not worried by that in particular with wilwa. I think this could be perfectly innocent comment. (But I have different reasons for suspecting wilwa - cf. above.)

[The Saucepan Man]

My masterpiece is complete! I am back!

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Both of these comments seem a bit of an overreaction to Pitchwife's first words. Granted, I've no idea if he can be trusted, but I see nothing there of particular note.

So first Pitchwife defends you and now you seem to be defending him? Is there some kind of a conection between the two of you? Probably too obvious, but I am bearing it in mind. I disagree with others that Pitchwife has been overly agreeable. Au contraire, I found him unduly hostile in his first post, singling out for comment my words on him and Inzil from the flim-flammery that I posted. Maybe it was to provoke discussion, so I shall reserve judgment for now.

Originally Posted by Craydon1

I'll give an example and answer it: What, based on the role you have (publicly) in the town, would you have been doing last night that would make it impossible for you to be a werewolf?

Hmm, unlike others, I am not sure what answering this question is going to tell anyone. For, what it’s worth, I was in my attic studio painting yet another masterpiece, a depiction of the windowless obsidian towers of Yuggoth. Of course, like everyone else, I can produce no witness to confirm my alibi, so where does that get us?

Originally Posted by Loslote

A wolf would have a different mentality approaching the question than an ordo. An ordo would usually imagine what their role would do (and probably have a bit of fun with it) whereas a wolf would try to distract the reader with, well, distracting things.

You see, I just don’t get this. A Wolf and an innocent will both approach the question in exactly the same way. Both will be making up something based upon their stated role. I actually preferred Craydon’s other suggestion – that we say who we would kill if we were Wolves – or I would, but for the fact that it may give the Wolves ideas. Still, I suppose it has got people talking, which is no bad thing in itself.

Morsul’s vote was based on invalid criteria, that much is clear. I’m putting that down to his newbie status, for now at least. But equally, I do not begrudge Nienna a little anger at receiving toDay’s first vote based on invalid criteria. I see nothing unusual in it and, indeed, I am more alarmed about those who have sought to make more of it than it merits (yes, I’m looking at you Legate and Nogrod).

I didn’t like Craydon’s vote either, being as it was totally unsupported by any reasoning. But as he’s a newbie, in these parts at least, I shall give him a break too for toDay.

Originally Posted by Hakon

Also on a side note, I think SPM is a wolf. There is no way he is an ordinary innocent. I mean he is back now after being gone for years, it makes perfect sense to give him some kind of non ordinary innocent role so he can show off his apparently awesome skills at werewolf.

Hehe. My reputation is for others to judge, but ‘awesome’ is not exactly a word I would ever use to describe myself, either in relation to my Werewolf prowess or otherwise. Like others, I do not consider Hakon’s reasons for suspecting me and for voting for Inzil to be valid. I am not sure that this alone points to him being a Wolf, though. In fact, I think that a Wolf is far more likely to come up with some kind of an in-game reason to justify its vote.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Nerwen for example is very active bu mostly commenting on everyone else's thoughts not providing too much in way of theories. maybe because she doesn't want to give away her fellow werewolves?

Hmm, now that’s much better reasoning, Morsul. And a good point to boot.

However, there is one person who is worrying me more than any other at the moment. Loslote posted a few times, but with little to say, early in the Day. Then (at #58), she sets out her thoughts on everyone in the village. Only it doesn’t really say very much at all. Indeed, if I am honest, it is a masterpiece of non-committal. For each villager, she either says they might be a Wolf or they might not, or she has nothing to say about them. She even tries to excuse her suspicion of her lynch candidate du jour, Pitchwife:

Originally Posted by Loslote

Pitchie - same as Inzil, only his posts worry me more. He seemed to be jokingly trying to get on everyone's good side...but it might just be Day 1 behavior.

So, just like practically everyone else on your list, he might be a Wolf but he might not be, but you’re going to vote for him anyway. Why him in particular? The vote ends up being very unreasoned. Overall, Loslote’s activity comes across to me as typically Wolfish. Posting a fair bit to show she’s engaged, trying to look helpful, but actually avoiding saying very much of anything at all.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

This strikes me. I know in context it could be "play our parts as good villagers and find the wolves" but at the same time I took it as a sort of signal. Like the Agent to his wolves.

I thought that my meaning was fairly obvious. I find it a strange basis upon which to suspect someone, and so I remain wary of you.

I am currently wary of Pitchwife, Inzil, Larien and Nerwen, for the reasons stated above. But my main suspect by far is Loslote, on account of her unnervingly Wolfish behaviour. And, since I am not sure whether I will be have a chance to get back before the Day is out:

++Loslote

[Roa_Aoife]

Alright, I'm back.

So, having read through the thread, here are my observations (and no, it's not a list- I hate lists):

I think Morsul has got the idea now. However, Nienna's reaction- overly offended or rather justified? Initially, I think it was understandable. After all, I don't care if people vote for me, so long as they have a good reason for doing so. Bad reasons are upsetting. Her further reactions are a bit defensive. She keeps on Morsul, as if he could change his vote.

I think SPM is being too harsh on Loslote, and has a double standard. Most people are saying a whole lot of nothing today, so why should someone in his second game be different from the seasoned players making the same errors? But then, SPM is the master at talking a lot without saying anything, and building reasonable sounding cases on what is little more than hot air. It seems a shame to lynch him in his first game in years, but that can only protect you so far.

I don't like Brinniel's post at all. By the time she posted there was a lot to comment on, but instead of doing anything useful, she posted a lot of bantering fluff. If she contributes not further I will likely vote for her.