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01-24-2005, 07:47 PM | #41 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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01-25-2005, 11:18 AM | #42 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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01-25-2005, 09:05 PM | #43 |
Haunting Spirit
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I agree with Essex here. Legolas is shooting out of impulse, not out of calculation. After all, don't the hobbits in the Scouring of the Shire do exactly that? Shoot Wormtongue on impulse? Though, I suppose it could be argued that they panicked because Wormtongue was running away in the book, while that was not the case in the movie.
But it's really difficult to see that in the film, though it must've been their intention. You can't see Grima's hatred of Saruman in the film; this is the first time he's been mistreated. In the books, Grima finally goes off the top after a long line of being abused. In the movies, he's just slapped once. And because in that scene his expression looks like he's trying to repent (after Theoden talks to him), it makes it look like Grima decides to be good and kills the bad guy instead of only killing Saruman because of his hatred for him. ...my biggest problem is that an arrow shouldn't be able to go 500 feet up in the air like that before weakening significantly, if not fall back down, due to gravity. |
01-25-2005, 09:31 PM | #44 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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No, it is clear to me that he does make a judgement - he judges Saruman to be the more useful to them. And his judgement is correct, in terms of the film.
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01-26-2005, 07:17 AM | #45 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Regardless of intent (impulse or calculaton) Legolas' firing of an arrow could only have the one result it did.
Assume that the instant Grima made a move to attack Saruman Legolas fired, then since Grima is so much closer to his target it's virtually impossible for Legolas' arrow to save Saruman (unless arrows that defy gravity can also move at virtually impossible speeds). Then if Legolas took even a second to judge Saruman and make a desicion then Grima is already 'that' much closer to his target and the arrow will need 'that much more time', so Legolas would probably shot only out of retribution, not prevention, at that point (I'm assuming he'd be able to tell the hopelessness of trying to save Saruman at that point) I guess you could argue that the intent is more important then the outcome, but I think the more important question in that would not be "how does this show Legolas' character?" but "why was it done this way?". I know somewhere in this forum (I can't remember the thread, I saw it the first day I looked around this site...if you recognize this idea let me know where it is and I'll gladly give credit to whomever diserves it) someone suggested that they could have had a nameless soldier shoot Wormtongue instead of Legolas. To me that idea makes more sense and keeps it more within the spirt of the books. Sorry if this is kind of long...I didn't relize it would be so much when written down.
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01-26-2005, 09:42 AM | #46 | ||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
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Grima kills Saruman, which must have warmed Theoden's heart, but then gets killed by Legolas. Is this why Theoden isn't really excited about helping Gandalf and Aragorn in regards to Gondor? Maybe Saruman could have turned to fight Grima, and realizing that it was going to take more than a few holes to kill the wizard, Grima tackles Saruman off of the edge, yelling "Rohan" or "Eowyn" or something as they fall. |
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01-29-2005, 04:22 PM | #47 | |
Wight
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in the case of the movie Saruman was the most usefull therefore needed because he had information Gandalf wanted, Grima on the otherhand wasnt needed and prolly wouldnt repent as for the fact that he spent many years, im guessing, under the influence of Saruman. as for Legolas shooting, people do things out of impules and out of the moment. wether he got caught up in the moment, was trying to save Saruman, or trying to kill Grima it happened. In the book they both die, and if the movies were to have one live and the other die, that would be a bigger difference than how they died. am i right?
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01-29-2005, 09:57 PM | #48 | |
Raffish Rapscallion
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01-29-2005, 10:05 PM | #49 |
Wight
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yes. but consisting with the fact that someone must kill him, who else could accomplish the impossible shot up the tower and hit and kill Grima. none other that the incredible Legolas. come on. do you think that some random Rohan soldier can do it? i konw that i said that its way to much credit for Legolas or anyone, but i dont think anyone else could have done it and if the credit has to go to someone it seems only proper to give it to Legolas who makes the incredible shots all through the movie. and they both have to die some how. and we have to see it otherwise we dont believe it. thats just the way society is.
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"Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to" Last edited by Lolidir; 01-29-2005 at 10:08 PM. |
01-29-2005, 10:13 PM | #50 | |
Raffish Rapscallion
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01-29-2005, 10:20 PM | #51 |
Wight
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i wasnt talking about not dong it because of how Gandalf and Theoden didnt want them too. and who knows maybe they could have, but then they would have had to pay someone to come on screen and do it and all that fun stuff. and all the nonbook readers who wouldnt know the difference would prolly much rather have a wellknow character do it instead. you have to remember that the movies were movies for everyone, not just the book readers.
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01-29-2005, 10:27 PM | #52 | |
Haunting Spirit
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01-30-2005, 01:26 PM | #53 |
Auspicious Wraith
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I think it completely discards any shred of human dignity that Grima had to have Action Hero Legolas kill him amidst the delighted shrieks of 12 year old girls in the audience.
But I'm repeating myself, am I not Estel?
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01-31-2005, 02:07 PM | #54 | ||
Raffish Rapscallion
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01-31-2005, 02:41 PM | #55 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Estel, if it wasn't for the average movie goer, then you wouldn't have seen ANY Tolkien films.
If people want a fantasy film based word for word entirely on the book, go see the (rather dissapointing) Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. |
01-31-2005, 03:03 PM | #56 | |
Animated Skeleton
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To me that suggests people actually do want faithful adaptions. This is even further supported by the fact that even though many people consider Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban to be a better book, it didn't do nearly as well as a movie because they hacked out so much of the book and disappointed the fans. Edit - I just checked my facts http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/...yr=2001&p=.htm. HP outgrossed even FOTR that year. Last edited by Snorri Swifthammer; 01-31-2005 at 03:06 PM. |
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01-31-2005, 07:01 PM | #57 | |
Raffish Rapscallion
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01-31-2005, 10:00 PM | #58 |
Wight
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it not so much as the book fans going to see the movie, its a matter of how big the book is before the movie. the Harry Potter books were a big deal and every one new about them, therefore they went to see the movies. LotR was the same way, it was well known and looked good so people went.
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"Its a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to" Last edited by Lolidir; 02-01-2005 at 09:13 PM. |
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