A Land to Call Their Own Discussion Thread

[Kransha]

Yes, indeed, this should be very enjoyable

Alright then, I must now familiarize myself completely with the other characters in close relation to mine and start trimming a second post.

[piosenniel]

The game is now open for play:

Please remember to:

REMOVE YOUR SIGNATURES FOR EVERY POST TO THE GAME

Have Fun!

Child (Cami) will moderate this game.

~*~ Pio

[piosenniel]

Moving this forward:

Here is a map of the area we will be travelling through. Keep a close eye on it. I will continually let you know where we are in relation to the map, so be conscious of the surroundings, such as the Old Forest, waterways, and hills.

Bree and Shire Map

[ArwenBaggins]

And let the game begin!

I must start crafting a second post as well.

*EDIT* Now my second post is up.

~Fëa

[alaklondewen]

Great post, Fëa.

I have Marcho's post up, and I have sent Estella to check on Fordogrim before they go.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Hello Alak.

I'm confused -- you say that you've sent Estella to check on Fordogrim, but in the rpg post Estella says she's going to check on "father".

Estella is Kalimac Whitfoot's sister (isn't she?) Fordogrim is a Chubb (isn't he!?!?) and therefore the father of Harold??

[alaklondewen]

I'm sorry Fordim, that is my error in thinking. At the last moment I was thinking about her checking on her family and you are certainly right about Fordogrim, so disregard the above post.

[Melisil]

Alora's second post is now up! Oh, I look forward to this!

[Regin Hardhammer]

Thanks Piosenniel for editing the name.

Also, I edited my profile so I'm now 61.

I'm busy tonight and tomorrow morning, but will then start work on my second post.....

[Kransha]

Kalimac's second post is now up.

[rutslegolas]

henry's second post is up.

[alaklondewen]

Great posts, everyone. We are finally on our way!

I want to bring something up for discussion...the relationships between the Whitfoot and Chubb children. It's rare that an RPG will have such an age difference between the children, so we don't have prior experience with this particular situation.

With the Whitfoots, we have Alora, who at 7 is a very small child, and Crispin, who is still pretty young at 12. The Chubb children are quite a bit older. May is a young women, and Henry, it seems is more of a teenager (or almost a tween).

It seems to me that a close relationship between the children, in a play on the same level way, would be inappropriate. Try to think about a 15 year old who has a 9 year old best friend. The two would be in completely different life stages.

However, I think we can work with a relationship between the families, where Henry and May could maybe look after them while at camp (maybe ordered to by parents, causing attitudes on both sides), but I can't see them "playing" together.

I also question the use of the word "play" regarding Henry and May. What is it that hobbits of these older ages play?

Give me some feedback. I want to know what the rest of you think.

[ArwenBaggins]

I just wanted to make it clear that Crispin is 12 in MORTAL years, not HOBBIT. I know 33 is when a hobbit becomes "of age", but I don't know about how they age other than that.

Oh, and Alak, check your PM's.

Thanks,
Fëa

[Child of the 7th Age]

This is Cami, your friendly neighborhood mod and also your "disaster" specialist in this game......

Arwen, Alak, --

A possible way of looking at hobbit ages.....

My guess is that hobbit and human children were actually not too different in terms of how they grew up, even though hobbits did not actually "come of age" till 33. Therefore, Arwen's character could be twelve-years old in both mortal and human terms.

I am basing this on the one and only source we have from Tolkien that discusses hobbit children at length. This is the unpublished Epilogue to the LotR, which is part of HoMe. This delightful story runs 7-8 pages and describes an evening that Sam spent with his children when they found out that King Elessar and Arwen were coming to meet with them at the Brandywine Bridge.

According to Christopher Tolkien, Sam's children were Elanor 15, Frodo 13, Rose 11, Merry 9, and Pippin 7. (These are the only ones who figure in the story -- little Goldilocks, Ham, and Daisie were in bed and the others not yet born.) In this story, Elanor acts like a typical 15 year-old, Frodo a typical 13 year-old, Rose an 11 year-old, etc. They all act just like their ages, not younger or older.

My guess is that Tolkien thought hobbit and human kids developed at the same rate. Only hobbits let their offspring have a longer time to settle down. They weren't "forced" into jobs and such at a young age, but were allowed to be youthful and carefree a little longer. (A nice dream....if only we could follow it too!)

By that standard, the Whitfoot children would be real "kids" (7 and 12). May at 27 would be similar to Pippin, and 19-year old Henry would be in-between, like a teenager. So the four of them wouldn't naturally all "play" together, any more than regular kids that age would. Henry and May would be more like "youth" or "young hobbits" than "children"...

Either way you go is fine, but I do think we need to reach some agreement. I also noticed that Fordim described Henry and May as "children" in his letter. I would say they are "young hobbits". But then, when you're as old as Fordim, anyone under fifty must look like a child!!

It would make sense to have one of the Whitfoot parents approach the Chubbs (parents or kids) and ask that Henry and May keep an eye on their children when they make camp. After all, the Whitfoot's were used to having the Chubbs work for them. This seems like a logical thing to happen. It would bring the four characters together, let them fight, learn to get along, etc. And I have a feeling that initially none of the kids would like it, not those doing the "babysitting" or those who were being looked after....

But does anyone else have other ideas on the question of hobbit age, or how to bring these four characters together?? These are just ideas, not written in stone.....

Cami

************************************************** *

Alak -

You must have a "unique" RPG. This is the first time I have ever done a response that looks like a lengthy "Books post" in the middle of an RPG discussion thread!

[Kransha]

On the subject of that, I can have Kalimac approach one of the Chubbs about that (considering his own semi-lack of confidence as a parent). I don't know the other characters in depth, but I would assume, from reading the Character Bio's, that Elsa Whitfoot might be too overprotective to allow someone else to keep an eye on her children (Arestevana, don't hesitate to tell me if I'm wrong).

About hobbit ages: I am not learned enough to talk of human-hobbit equivalents, but some combinations would make for great character interaction. Like relationships between the oldest and youngest of the children. Age-based friendships or rivalries are always interesting. More later, when I have time to think.

So, we technically have the 7 stages of man (hobbit) going on here (ever seen Shakespeare's As You Like It?). We have semi-toddler, semi-teenager, youth, older youth, and upwards of that. Good diversity going on that can be used to our Role-Playing advantage.

[ArwenBaggins]

Thank you Child. That clarifies everything for me.

Crispin would be willing to 'hang out' or be watched by Henry, because he loves meeting new people and having adventures. And you never know what might happen if Crispin gets a little too adventurous!

~Fëa

[Arestevana]

Elsa's second post is now up!

Kransha, you're quite right about Elsa. It would good if Kalimac was the one who talked to the Chubbs. I don't think Elsa would approve of her children being watched over by a couple of tweens.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

My sense of hobbit and human ages/development has always been the same as Child's -- it you're a 25 year old human, you're a 25 year old hobbit. Hobbits just seem to take the time they need to really 'grow up' -- unlike humans ("a hasty folk").

And, yes, to Fordogrim pretty much everyone on this trip is a "child"!!

F.H.

[Kransha]

Ok, just for updating purposes, I'll put up a post with Kalimac approaching the Chubbs after everyone has up their second posts and it has become apparent that Kalimac doesn't really have the time or patience to spend every waking moment keeping his children from harm or other nasty things.

Perhaps the 'baby-sitting' thing should be brought up after the first disaster, or after one of the children's antics start to get out of hand. Kalimac will need time to realize that he needs some help from the Chubbs' offspring to tend his own.

[alaklondewen]

Kransha - Don't rush it. A good time for Kalimac to approach the Chubbs may be our first campsite.

Great posts, Kransha, Fordim, and Arestevana.

[Regin Hardhammer]

Well my second post is up. I'm still a bit teary eyed... sniff sniff. Witch Queen - I hope you don't mind sitting next to a pair of chickens! It will be a great game. Yeah!!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Great post my son! (But who are you calling "Old One"? )

One thing that I have to ask you to amend, however -- you have Fordogrim riding in the cart with the family: nothing personal, but he is going to ride his pony Stout on this journey. But don't worry, he'll be sure to keep close enough to the cart to tell you all what to do when you need to hear it.

[rutslegolas]

i think henry is in his tweens and may is a teenager
so i think they could play cards or something if they existed at that time?


could anyone suggest something or i believe they could play with the other children ??

[Witch_Queen]

A pair of chickens? Well as long as they don't try to hurt me we'll be fine. Its ok Regin. Sarah will get use to the chickens. If she doesn't then she's not as prepared as we had thought. But she will get use to it. Just don't add the chickens actual clucking into the post. that will drive me crazy. Anyways my second post is up. Its going to be very interesting.... I think?

[Melisil]

I've always thought that Hobbits and Humans aged the same.. so ya.

The Chubb two could play cards, or just talk, or something like that I'm guessing as well.

[alaklondewen]

Regin and Witch_Queen - Very nice posts.

rutslegolas - I'm not going to make a fuss over the use of the word "play" regarding Henry and May. It is just that "play", to me, lends itself to the idea of children's activities. Sibling activities that might be more age appropriate could be playing cards (card games, if not exactly like our modern games, have been around since just before 1000 AD), a form of chess, fishing, or exploring. However, I do think the "close relationship" between Henry and Crispin would be innappropriate, even in our time. I don't think you have wrongful intentions regarding the two, but I do think that such a relationship would be frowned upon. I have a hard time seeing Sarah comfortable with it (Witch_Queen, correct me if I'm wrong). With that said, I am going to ask you to change your entry regarding Crispin. You may name another hobbit that is his friend that is not played, if that is what you would like to do.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I agree that "playing together" is probably a bit of a stretch for a 12 year old and 19 year old -- but a 19 year old could easily take on the role of adoptive 'big brother'. It's not exactly a peer relationship, but it is a friendly relationship that's devoid of the kind of strict hierarchy of a parent-child bond.

As to May and Alora -- I don't know; a 27 year old woman might quite like doing some 'baby-sitting' for a 7 year old girl.

Just my two cents' worth.

"Young whippersnappers."

[Child of the 7th Age]

With posters concentrated in just two families (plus Marcho), we will probably make heavier use of carry-alongs than in most other games. I think Alak's idea of a carry-along child/young person is a good one. Fortunately, she's given us the Boffin family who have eight children, so there's plenty of choices here.

Let's just go ahead and fill in the names and ages of those children. Then anyone can use them as needed. I'll take a stab at it. If anyone has strong preferences for other names or ages, let me know.

Also, I will periodically drag this list forward with us on the discussion thread. That way, you won't have to look very far to find the names and characters you'll need.

It's even possible this list will grow slightly (not too much) once things get going.

**********************************************
Alak's "Approved" Carry-alongs

Ponto Bracegirdle - A young Bree merchant who hopes to gain business by losing his competition and having new trade with Elves and Men. Newly married to the young Belba Banks.

Ruby Hornblower and her two small children are leaving Bree after her husband was killed in a farming accident. She is being pressured by the Big Folk to sell her land, and she is finally giving in.

Fredigar Headstrong is a local deputy in Bree, who hopes he can organize the new law once they arrive at the White Downs. This hobbit is known for being rash in his decisions.

Ferdibrand Boffin, his wife, Peony, and their eight children are leaving their small house in town in hopes of finding land large enough for their still growing family.

Boffin children:

• Lilac, girl, 20
• Bolco, boy, 19
• Nick, boy, 13
• Daisy, girl, 12
• Rose, girl, 9
• Hob, 7
• Opal, 6
• Edmund, 3

And perhaps another on the way??? Since Rose Gamgee gave birth to her last child when she was all of fifty-eight, that means Peony would be about 53 and could still have a few more babies to go!

Does this look right and give us the ages we need?

[ArwenBaggins]

Great posts Everyone! I really look forward to this.

Rutslegolas:
I believe that Crispin and Henry may have a brother/brother relationship, but not really a 'friend' relationship.

Alak ,
Check your PM's. I've got some ideas for the plot.

~Fëa

[Kransha]

Alright, everyone has second posts up? Either way, good posts all.

Something I must confirm is Kalimac's relationship with his children. Now, I've already mentioned that he's not the ideal father, but I would like to know how Crispin and Alora feel about their relationships with both parents, and perhaps Henry and May's relationships with theirs. Knowing that makes it a lot easier for the 'parents' to know what there dealing with (for some reason, I'm picturing a rebellious teenage hobbit wearing chains and a nose ring...not a pretty mental picture).

[Regin Hardhammer]

I edited my post so that Fordogrim is riding on his own pony. I kept the part about the " Old One." Gosh Fordogrim, why do you have to be so stubborn! Anyway you're on your own pony now.

[Melisil]

Originally posted by Kransha
Something I must confirm is Kalimac's relationship with his children.

I'll post the relationships I've got a good idea about for Alora:

Mum- Alora loves her dearly, and has a very close relationship with her.

Dad- She loves her dad also, very much. She loves it when he plays with her, yet when/if he is silent for a while, she gets to be slightly intimidated of him.(for fear of another word.. also, if this is not quite Kalimac's character, please tell me!)

Crispin- He's her big brother! Alora looks up to him, and likes hanging around with him, with the exception of when she doesn't.

I was thinking that she would be playing mostly with Hob and Opal Boffin from their family. They have a good friend relationship. Every so often Alora and Hob tag along with Rose, as is so often seen among younger siblings!

My thought was that May would be liking baby sitting Alora (yes? no?). I'm not sure, but Alora would probably like it alot.

Fordogrim Chubb-- a side note: please do not be offended if Alora finds Fordogrim to be rather funny at times!!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Fordogrim Chubb-- a side note: please do not be offended if Alora finds Fordogrim to be rather funny at times!!

"Dern kids!"

[Memory of Trees]

Second post!


I envision May as mid- to late teens, and she will act accordingly. I've decided not to change May's age, so I'm sorry if it's a little off. Just keep in mind that she's still a teenager.

I do object to May's 'playing' Henry. Although they have a very good relationship, she's a bit too old to play with him, I think.

To May's mum and da - Please, I am not trying to portray you in a bad light! I merely want to tell this story from May's point of view, and right now she's angry at her parents. Forgive me if I took liberties with your characters, but I am still very new at this. I'm not sure how much is too much when it comes to other people's characters. You can yell at me.

Melisil - As to whether she would object to babysitting, it all depends in how you approach May. If she is ordered to watch Alora, then May will do it, and hate every second of it. However, if Alora were to make friends with May herself, then she would be glad to help out. She shouldn't be hard to win over. Another option is that May is commanded to watch Alora, and eventually the little girl makes friends with her. That works too.

[alaklondewen]

I agree that "playing together" is probably a bit of a stretch for a 12 year old and 19 year old -- but a 19 year old could easily take on the role of adoptive 'big brother'. It's not exactly a peer relationship, but it is a friendly relationship that's devoid of the kind of strict hierarchy of a parent-child bond.

I completely agree with this statement by Fordim. There doesn't have to be a complete lack of relationship, just not a peer one.

Nice post, Memory of Trees.

Now that all second posts are up, it's a free for all. I will post tomorrow as it's getting late here. Anyone who wants to post in the meantime might post on the surroundings or even a midday meal?

[Child of the 7th Age]

I wanted to say what a good job everyone is doing. I am really enjoying reading the posts! I know many of you haven't played here before and I'm genuinely impressed with the quality of the writing and interaction.

Alak - You are being such a diligent founder that you managed to get in your response before I could even slip you a pm.

There was just one problem I wanted to address. One of my jobs as Shire Mod is to make sure that we follow the rules in the Red Book of Westmarch.

Memory of Trees - You wrote an extremely lively and fun post. However, your initial instincts were right - you crossed over the line a bit. I'm going to use your post to show what can be a problem. Please don't feel badly about this. My experience has been that the very best writers sometimes have trouble in this way because they are overflowing with interesting ideas and are itching to write! We have a lot of strong writers on this game and I think a discussion like this may be helpful for all of us.

One of the hardest things in a game is to know how and when you can talk or act for another poster. You have to play with someone a long time, before you can be completely comfortable you're representing them accurately. Even then, there are mistakes. (Just ask me -- I'm an expert on such mistakes!) Here is the guideline from the Redbook:

Godding: Depicting someone else's character in a way they would not act. On those rare occasions that you speak for another character, be very careful to do it in a way that does not misrepresent them or do anything significant without the permission of the person who owns that character.

In general, don't speak for anyone other than your own character in an extended discussion unless that poster has given you prior permission. An occasional, neutral comment is alright but nothing more than that. This is especially true when the discussion involves any disagreement. For example, May could get up on top of the table and rant and rave at her parents as long as she wants to! What she can't do is respond back for them in any way. They have to do that for themselves. Otherwise, it's too easy to misrepresent a character that's not your own.

For example, Henry Chubb has been staunchly opposed to leaving Bree in both his posts, yet here he responds in a very different way when asked about whether the family should go....“It’s not a half-bad idea, with it getting so crowded ‘round here,”

It's even tricky describing the actions of another character. Fighting and such are definitely out, but even little things can be tricky. I noticed that Regin had his father sitting in the wagon in his last post. Normally that would be fine, but Fordim responded and asked him to edit, since his character was on a pony. Witch_Queen said she didn't mind sitting next to clucking chickens....! But if she had, Regin would have had to edit that too. That kind of description and interaction is common in a game. If you see a problem with how someone uses your character, politely ask them to edit on the discussion thread or in a pm.

I hope this helps. The main thing is to be a bit cautious when you write and willing to edit if another poster asks you to do that. Memory of Trees -- please revise your last post to comply with the guidelines --- as great and high spirited as it is!

If anyone has questions about this, contact me on the thread or by pm.

[rutslegolas]

hi everyone great posts.

i have edited my posts that henry and may play cards
and the friend was bolco one of the boffin children

ya it seems a good idea that henry should look after crispin at their first camp?

[Witch_Queen]

Sarah's mean? No! Memory of Trees Sarah isn't a bad hobbit. She's just a little over protective. Now I know how my own mother felt. May sounds like she gets alot of her attitude from her mother. Funny really? Oh well its good from here any ways. Just please and I repeat please don't make Sarah sound like she's a bad person. I thought Regin had the children riding in the cart? whats up with May walking? Just let me know what is going on now.
Sarah is setting with the chickens *snicker* and I know about Henry, he's fine, but May is what i'm worried about.

alaklondewen (correct me if I'm wrong) but wasn't May riding in the cart with her mother and brother? Oh well I could be wrong. Like I said let me know.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Hey Memory -- great post! I think that May and Fordogrim are going to get along famously!

One thing (and I'm sorry as this seems to be turning into a "correct Memory of Trees" thread, but this one is my fault since I didn't tell anybody that. . .)

You have May referring to Fordogrim as Grandfather Grim -- I have been using "Grim" as his sign off in the letters, but that is going to be his 'private' (and 'secret') name between he and Primrose: nobody else even knows that she used to call him that!

But who knows, if the relationship between May and Fordogrim gets even closer, perhaps he'll let her in on the name. . .

Thought just occured to me: perhaps Grandpa Fordo??

[Regin Hardhammer]

Memory of Trees -

That's a lively post! Please do rant and rave at your father as much as you want.

However, I would appreciate it if you'd take out the part where you have Regin speak (like Child said). Regin hates and loathes leaving Bree and he would never say a single good word about it to his daughter or anyone else.

The big difference between Harold and May is that May sees the Whitfoots and their greediness about the land as the source of the Chubb's problems. Harold hasn't gotten that far yet, but just give him a little time!

Regin

p.s. My last post does say that you're in the cart. But feel free to feel so huffed at me that you get out of the cart to walk!