Annoying Amateurs

[Neferchoirwen]

What I also find annoying is all the behind-the-scene stories that are better left with the dvds.

Although making the movie is very memorable and fun to talk about, it just seems idiotic to talk about them and consider it "Tolkien talk." It just doesn't make sense to me.

However, I just hope that these "fans" (a misnomer, no doubt) would not remain "unread" and therefore relatively ignorant fans.

I feel sorry for the buggers.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me.

If you're referring to "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil," this is contained in The Tolkien Reader, which I bought from Half.com . It is also available on Amazon.com and sometimes on Ebay.com . I bought one for 99 cents plus shipping. The books I'm waiting on are the HoME series books. Having devastated my credit card for a million reasons, most of them being the replacement of tires in this area of VERY rough roads, I haven't bought any new books in a while.

They ask me questions about things not fully explained in the movie, so I tell them: read the book. But do they listen? Noooo.

Perhaps you should show them a portion of the movie and then read them the corresponding quote from the book from behind a makeshift lectern...well, I suppose everyone has his or her own style! Or perhaps tell them to go into the middle of the woods and lean against a tree and read...no distractions but the odd bird-dropping--heh heh!

My own conclusion is that those who were meant to come to the books will do so in their own time. It took me many years to finally crack the books, even though I had them in my library for a long time. The Hobbit is always a good "way in!"

Cheers!
Lyta

[Orcrist]

I have some amateurs at my school. Some of them only know LOTR from the videogames. There is one kid who has read the books but he doesn't really like to discuss(he's too cool ) I do have a friend who does like to discuss them but we don't do it very often. I have a cousin who loves Viggo Mortensen so I told her that he gets stepped on by a troll and dies in RotK. She was literally crying

[Pyroclastic]

I allways have a good laugh over the people who make it all the way through the books, then complain about the return to the shire being 'pointless'. Yup, very pointless indeed; they only destroyed Saruman, Wormtounge, and inspired the timid Hobbit cluture to stand up for themselves. True LOTR fans are so hard to come by. That what makes The Downs so awsome! Three cheers for us!
~Pyro~

[Saraphim]

Hey, Gil-Galad , I did the same thing! I even had one girl nearly in tears! Cruel, I know, but they were the annoying type. A few I knew actually carried the trilogy around with them, but when questioned about The Barrow-Downs, or the fogginess of it, they were clueless.

I discovered that they had only read the bits with Legolas in them. I almost beat them over the head with the trilogy.

[Araswooon]

Hello Bookworms.

Aawwwww I think your being very unfair to all them "newbies" to Lord Of The Rings. They had probably never read the books before the film came out, so give them a break eh?

I'm new to it myself, well slightly. I read the books when i was 12 and really loved them, and ever since i've been a fan of Tolkien, but i'm not as clued up as you lot. Since i joined several LOTR messageboards i've read Tolkien experts posts like yourselfs and have learned a great deal from people like you. I still get confused and ask daft questions, but unlike some i did know about the Trilogy before the film came out so i did know what was happening and who was who and so on. Please don't take the mick though because i'm sure they would have liked to have known the truth if you had told them without mocking them.

More people are starting to read the book because of seeing the film now, so please understand them a bit better, eh?

I'm impressed by all your knowledge by the way..

[Bêthberry]

This is a rather tardy reply to Nynnd1's comment:

I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me.

Lyta has kindly given a source in The Tolkien Reader but "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" can also be found in the volume of faery tales, Tales from the Perilous Realm, a Harper Collins paperback, ISBN 0 261 10343 1. I rather like the cover, with its reverse chiaroscuro of black background with white shaded figures from the tales (a bit like my avatar, if I might with modesty point that out). I am fond of reading the stories in this collection because it highlights Tolkien's very good, to my mind, lecture "On Fairy-Stories."

The selection on Tom is really a collection of verse rather than prose story, but they all belong to the realm of faery. For your information, a blurb on the back of the book from The Listener calls TAoTB "Something close to genius."

[Sirithheruwen]

Originally Posted by Araswooon

More people are starting to read the book because of seeing the film now, so please understand them a bit better, eh?

I'm impressed by all your knowledge by the way..

These aren't the people we are talking about - in fact, I for one quite admire them and cheer them on! The people we're talking about are the people who have only seen the movies and think they are right about EVERYTHING. For example, some people think Tom Bombadil doesn't exist because he isn't in the movies. Or, when you tell them that Frodo sold Bag End to the Sackville-Baginnses, and went to "live" in Crickhollow, they: 1) Deny the existance of the Sackville-Bagginses, 2) Deny that Frodo sold Bag End, and 3) Deny the existance of Crickhollow, simply on the basis that "it wasn't in the movies." And THEN, they say, "And you call yourself a LOTR fan!" (And this is all based on experiance.)

[Araswooon]

Hello Sirithheruwen.

yeah i guess your right. So did you like the film? Did you prefer the book? What would you have included in the film?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nope not where I come from. They watch the movies, enjoy Legs or the fight scenes, then forget Tolkien ever existed. Zwing!

A consolation is that no-one here claims to know everything. No annoying amateurs.

[bilbo_baggins]

So, Nilpaurion Felagund, are you saying that because we don't think we know it all, we prove therefore that we are not amatuers?

Nice Sig, but confusing...

[Thorongil]

I think it is important to separate amateurs from ANNOYING amateurs. An amateur is a person who wants to read books and learn more, but an annoying amateur doesen't have to read, because they claim to know everything.

[Araswooon]

Well thats a relief Thorongil i'm an ameteur in your eyes then. I loved the films and book, and i want to learn more. When i read all your imput and facts on the book, i'm really impressed. I also enjoy reading about what had happened to the Charactors after the Ring was destroyed, amazing and very brilliantly done. Tolkien is indeed a remarkable man.

Kimberley xxx

[Thorongil]

Well, I fitted my own discription a while ago. When the first film came, I didn't even know what LOTR was. Now, I've read some books, and reading whatever I can find in the library. It's the most interesting books I've ever read.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I think it is important to separate amateurs from ANNOYING amateurs. An amateur is a person who wants to read books and learn more, but an annoying amateur doesen't have to read, because they claim to know everything.'

Exactly, Eagle of the Star. Nobody here claims to know everything because nobody here wants to know anything.

Kinda lonely out here. It's a good thing you guys are here, spanning the endless ocean to reach out to me. Else I would have been like one of those annoying amateurs, or I would have dropped the lore of Middle-earth all together.

[Gil-Galad]

For the record, i knew about this site for awhile before joining it, after a read teh books a couple times and felt confident, i joined hoping that this wasn't a movie-goers site, but its not and i'm glad

[Lyta_Underhill]

An amateur is a person who wants to read books and learn more, but an annoying amateur doesen't have to read, because they claim to know everything.

An apt observation, Thorongil, because, in my opinion, the term "amateur" is often misused in common parlance. I understand this term to mean someone who pursues an interest out of love, thus the prefix "ama-" or "amat-" (but, I think Bethberry would be more skilled at pulling out the etymological reference than I, who merely remembered the prefix meaning!) Perhaps an "annoying amateur" would be one who loves the subject matter but rattles on in an annoying manner about it!

Cheers!
Lyta

[Estel'sAngel]

All my friends haven't read the book and everybody at my schools (in high school and some in college) considered themselves experts on Tolkien because of the movies.

I got a kick out of it in my Senior AP English class when I did a presentation on Tolkien. They all started asking me questions from the trilogy.

"Boromir was evil, how come he was in the Fellowship?"
"What, who was that character again? You know...the greasy one with the sword."

So I told them that Boromir was a good guy, just easily persauded by the Ring and that the greasy one was my fave character, Aragorn.

"How do you know so much?"

"I've been reading the books every year since the 6th grade."

So I know annoying amateurs. But luckily I do know that some are making an effort to read the books or at least come to me and see how that part happened in the book. I like being an expert in their eyes, but then I come here and see how much I don't know. Sorta a good feeling ya know. Just to know you're own standing and importance in the world.

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

I may not have many posts (a zillion like you real old 'downers'), but I can hold my own. Once a girl asked me what I thought of Tolkien, and I said I was crazy about his works. She whipped back with something like, "Well that's just wrong, because Tolkien's books are paganistic!" I could just have screamed out, "Well, Tolkien was the one who led the great C.S. Lewis to Christianity!" I thankfully held myself back.

(Not intended to be offensive to other religious entities, although Tolkien was Christian. )

I read a tract by Jack Chick called "Dark Dungeons", that listed both J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis as occult writers. Bloody idiot that Jack Chick is, actually thinks he's winning souls with such rubbish.

But the worst would have to be idiots who know nothing of the First age, think Boromir is a prince, etc. The type to write lame SI fanfiction with Mary Sue characters...

hey
im an amateur and i do nt think i know it all.... in fact my rather limited knowledge of middle earth saddens me sometimes as i think of all the years mum had a huge poster on the wall that she received as a gift and i didnt even relize it was lord of the rings...... anyway just like to say that i am hoping to learn a bit on here, and id appreciate the help of any more experiences tolkien fans..... remember, u were all amateurs once too

Don't you think there's a tad too much of th word ME around? I floored the guy. I easily explained it...fine you people have read a lot. but the way you brag only proves you know so little and have given up on learning. People read LOTR and think they are gurus. after silmarilion they blow up furthur. Cut some slack man there's so much to learn. Well never mind Snobs enrage me even more than the newbies the are the real I-am-the-true-LOTR-fan wannabies

, , | , ,

[Lyta_Underhill]

Don't you think there's a tad too much of th word ME around?

Short for Middle Earth, right? I figure there's got to be a place to brag about something I know, eh? The cool thing about ME is that, once you think you know something, you find more and more levels to it...and you discover just how much you don't know. I think this is true with people (both other people and yourself), as well as with Tolkien's works.

Cheers,
Lyta ( ME-obsessed )

[Kitanna]

So back in the day when I could barely read my dad gets this movie. It's the really old cartoon of the Fellowship of the Ring and it scared the crap out of me. Put me off from the Trilogy until the movies came out. Now it wasn't like I didn't know about them, (I mean my mom read me the Hobbit like four summers in a row and I loved it) but LOTR scared me and I never wanted to see it.

But I have to thank the movies. Because even as a freshmen in high school I was scared of that cartoon which I hadn't watched since I was four. My parents dragged me to see the Fellowship of the Ring and I fell in love. After that I had to read the books and learn everything there was to know.

And yes at first it was all about the movie, but I'd like to say I've come a long way since then. I can't stand the ones who haven't read or in some cases haven't heard of the books. And those that have that think they're so boring. I love the movies, but they lack so much from the books. Like Tom Bombadil, the Scouring of the Shire, and just little things that made the books for me.

So it sounds like I'm an amateur and I am, but I'm trying to shed that because I really do love the books and I could spend the rest of my life locked away reading them.

[Kransha]

Just to clarify...

This thread is not about some people, including me, talking about how Tolkein-smart we are and others are not. This is a thread were we vent about the people who think they know everything. We don't claim to know everything and are still learning, so we get annoyed when they claim to be experts when they clearly know less than us, who are not even truly experts ourselves. So, we prove our views to them by showing our humble knowledge and hoping that they'll learn that they don't know everything. We try, oh how we try, but with these folk, we rarely succeed.

This thread was, more or less, created to vent and talk about these 'amateurs.' I respect those who want to learn, since I also want to learn, but I cannot respect those who say they don't need to. I try to teach them, but they are the snobby ones, refusing to learn and insisting they know.

[Boromir88]

This is about people who have only watched the movie and think they know everything on LOTR. Or the ones that say they have read the books but they really haven't and they think the movies are the books.

Anyway easy questions here to tell if one has read the books or not that I will share. With some funny usual responses.

How many elves were at helms deep?
responses: "Ahh ya like you know the answer to that, I dont know 100?200?1000?"
"I can't count that much"<<<<I respond to that one with "you can't count to one"


Why did Gimli get mad at Eomer when they first met?

Who summoned the floods of Bruinen drowning the nazgul horses?
responses: I love the ones that say "Arwen" then you know they haven't read, but the ones that say "glorfindel" might have, even though "glorfindel" isn't the right answer.

Who is Sharkey?
Response: Hey, I thought you were asking LOTR questions

There are many more but I will not say the most funniest thing I've seen so far from a movie person has to be "Do you think PJ will make a LOTR 4."

[Boromir88]

Kransha, I do agree, I am not one that searches and destroys for movie people or do I like ones who do that. I could care less if one has read the books or not, and I encourage people to do so. It's the ones that lie and say they have read the books when they haven't. Those are the ones you ask my questions to above

[Finwe]

I apologize if we seem like we're snobbishly bashing other people with a genuine desire to learn. However, you can't condemn someone before reading or listening to what they have to say. We aren't bashing newbies or amateurs, in fact, we welcome them. We are just expressing our abject dislike of the amateurs who think that they know it all. Granted, the majority of amateurs are wonderful people. But there is that approximately 15% who thinks that because they know a few things, they know everything, and proceed to condemn everyone else. Those are the people we dislike. I apologize again if we seem otherwise, but you should listen to what the other "camp" has to say before passing any condemnations. Many posts in this thread clarify our position.

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

Yep well I've only been on here for less than a year or so but I read the Hobbit and LOTR when I was 7 and reread them a lot, but haven't read the Silm or any of the HoME... am I still an amateur? just wondering how far you have to go to become a Sensei. But then again, I don't think I'll ever say that I know everything, because that's kind of impossible.

Also, it really bothers me when people pronounce names or places from the books wrong, and then try and tell me that I'M wrong. Like just today, one of my brother's friends was going on about "Ee-o-whine" and refused to switch to "Aeowin" (im writing pronounciation obviously). Later, he was "wisely" explaining to another friend about how "Eeowhine" secretly wants to marry "Grime-a" but can't because "Strider" would get jealous. Also, I saw a review or fan fic somewhere where the author consistently spelled Sauron as Souron, which was irkful. And there's way too many long Americanized vowels I've heard to rant on about here.

Gah! so is the power of the enemy. He turns bretheren to enemies. LOTR rocks tolkien rules!

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

He turns bretheren to enemies.

But an ignorant person who not only poses as a know-it-all but refuses to take corrections or learn more would definitely not be my friend. Or any brethren that I would admit to having.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I hear people call Arwen a princess over a million times. Still ticks me off every time.

A newspaper column here called Sauron a wizard. Possibilities: the writer read UT, and concluded erroneously; or just made a WAG.

Come to think of it, there are annoying amateurs here.

[Gil-Galad]

I've seen worse, somewhere, Elrond was called king of elves and Galadriel queen, and they both live in Rivendale(i know its suppose to be Rivendell) and they live with ents...

[Ainaserkewen]

The elves of the Third age didn't have many monarchs, did they? Especially the remaining that were ruled by the Noldor or their decendants. Doesn't matter though.

I think the Arwen as a Princess stemed from the terms used to describe her character when people were reviewing the movies, and in some cases, the books. "Warrior Princess" was a term used in a lot of the articles I read. I don't know if the reviewers meant it that she was a Princess, but her movie character would have resembled one. Think Xena. Hahahah, funny mental picture.

Who summoned the floods of Bruinen drowning the nazgul horses?

Good discovery question. Anyone who has read the books wouldn't say Arwen.

My opinion on such people who take hold of Movie information as Canon to the entire story (Canon meaning that it's true), they should either read the books, or shut their mouths when a downer is talking.

Last note: Everyone is an amature, right? It's what makes them annoying that gets on everybody's nerves. You wouldn't be bashing someone who doesn't know a thing, but is inquizitive and humble to the fact that they don't. That's what I started out as anyway.

[Estel'sAngel]

Here's a good one I've heard from my own friends, but they're trying. As long as people try, I'm happy.

*Note, I'm scared of spiders, and yet Shelob didn't bother me until the movie. I looked like this guy...

"I can see why you're so scared of spiders. Reading the third book must have been hard for you."

Me: "Actually, she wasn't in the third book. She was in the Two Towers, but Jackson put her in the third movie for some odd reason."

"Oh. Well what part of the movie was like the book?"

Me thinking.."An opening, at last!"

Me saying: "That would take awhile. I can lend ya my books if you want so you can find out!"

I like the ones who actually try to understand the difference and want to know about the books. But those 15% who feel they know everything because of the movies... I look like that guy after 5 minutes with them!

[Gil-Galad]

Shelob was in 3rd movie because, when frodo and sam were climbing up, thats when the witch-king began his attack in minas tirith, and that didn't begin till the third book, so they did that not to confuse the viewers

[Thorongil]

Well, they had a problem in the movie since there was really six books, not three, so they changed between them all the time. I've always thought it would be cool if they had made six movies instead, with half a year between. Then they could include more.

[Saraphim]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I wish I could take the annoying psuodo-fans and punt them off of cliffs.

But I can't, so I vent it here. Lucky you guys, huh?

Anyway here's my biggest pet peeve:

Annoying Person:"Eowyn kicked that guy's butt! No guy could have done that! Girl power!"

Me: "Grrrr. Eowy was not a femminist. And what movie were you watching anyway? She would have been Mace Mcnuggets if it wasn't for Merry. Who, despite the fact that he's not a man, is still male"

Annoying Person: "Well duh, but still... Eowyn rules. You go girl!"

Grrrr.

[Saraphim]

Oh, and BTW, I agree. Amateurs are not annoying. All of us were amateurs once. But it's the annoying ones that really get under my skin.

[Potatothan]

Indeed the A.A.'s are very annoying. (and no that doesn't stand for Alcoholic Anounamus) I once watched ROTK in the theater and there was this guy bragging to his friends about how well his knowledge was. Of course you can brag to your friends, I don't mind. But this guy was ranting from the ticket box till the seats and afther the previeuws he still went going. And believe me, it was very annoying considering the fact that he was sitting NEXT TO ME.

So he went on making stupid comments, making them up as he went, untill I had enough. When the corronation of Aragorn was taking place, and Eowyn came into screen he said: Eowyn still has a secret love for Aragorn and will die of her griefs.

So I just leaned over and said: Eowyn is happely married to Faramir and is going to life in Ithilien stupid. Would you now please be quite so I can watch at peace?

Needless to say he wasn't so populair with his friends afther the movie was over. But you know what the fun thing is? He was in the same train as me afther the movie and he asked me all kinds of stuff. He tolled me he had started in Fotr, but had only made it untill the birthday party. I also tolled him about the silm and he was really excited. So sometimes an A.A. isn't an A.A. but just goes a little further than his knowledge because of excitement.

For myself, I went to Fotr, totaly clueless of what the heck it was. I only had gotten a puzzle from lotr for x-mas, cuz my cousing thought it looked pretty cool. Which it did, but I had no clue what it was. I was puzzled so to speak. So after fotr I went again, and again, and again, and then I was out of money and for my birthday I got the book and later on the silm. The hobbit and the adventures of Tom Bombadil I got from the library, so it can always turn out ok.

~Potatothan

[Etharius]

Just read the 1st post.

Get over it, why do you care what people thing they know.