Ten Year Anniversary Game: Living Thread

[Kuruharan]

Narration to follow.

[Kuruharan]

The debate this DAY was a bit slower, more delibrative than previous.

The inmates took plenty of time for hearty meals and pauses for thought.

Certainly today would see a solid, well-thought result. I mean, this would be the last sort of DAY when one of the inmates might suddenly jump up, throw himself on the guillotine, and pull the lever.

Wouldn't it be..?

At least the scratching continued.

Nice to have stability, after all.

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod
the phantom
Rune Son of Bjarne
Aganzir
A Little Green
Macalaure
Rikae
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Firefoot
Lalaith
Nilpaurion Felagund

The Living:
Formendacil
satansaloser2005
McCaber
Boromir88
Nerwen
Thinlómien
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath

Illusion:
Gwathagor (Ordo)

[Kuruharan]

Due to unforeseen circumstances, I'm starting DAY 5 early (all NIGHT folks reported in, don't worry, I'm not skipping anyone).

It was a sedate NIGHT.

The sun returned to herald the return of DAY rather early but with it came breakfast and other than the earliness nothing seemed to be amiss...except for a faint but pervasive red mist that seemed to hang over everything.

With no new corpses to discover everyone ate with renewed appitite and for a time believed they had finally overcome their situation.

But then they realized that Kuru had not come back and he had promised to do so.

Then they realized that Nerwen was missing. They hunted for her high and low, but there was no sign of her.

The red mist was becoming quite distracting and the inmates were becoming damp with it.

They set to the DAY's task to the continued sound of scratching.

The Missing or Dead:
Kuruharan
Nogrod
the phantom
Rune Son of Bjarne
Aganzir
A Little Green
Macalaure
Rikae
Legate of Amon Lanc
Loslote
Firefoot
Lalaith
Nilpaurion Felagund
Nerwen

The Living:
Formendacil
satansaloser2005
McCaber
Boromir88
Thinlómien
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath

Illusion:
Gwathagor (Ordo)

[Mithalwen]

Well no extra vote yesterday presumably because it wasn't exactly clear what we wanted. Can only assume that they had more sense and decided no information was better than misinformation.

Maybe it would be an idea to get that sorted early today. Ideally so that those east of the Sea aren't in the "you didn't get up this morning because you didn't go to bed, you were watching the whites of you eyes turn red" type situation. On which subject.. I did try to stay awake to the end of yesterday but woke five minutes past deadline gazing at a lit bulb and clutching the flaptop... not my finest hour.

Hopefully the single kill means one pack has been eliminated and Nerwen can be trusted.. not that I didn't before but.... not only option though. Especiallly since there isn't a body so maybe not a proper kill... or a sign that She will be back

And now I shall probably catch up on sleep, since Kuru has been kind.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that was unexpected. I figured both of us would be dead.

More thoughts later. Nuzzles, gaming, and sleep now. The good news is that I'll be around more toDay.

[McCaber]

Well, I didn't vote yesterDay, so if I was the one the dead empowered it might not have shown up in the narration.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm going to assume that Boro didn't kill Nerwen, and that a wolf pack did. I wouldn't let down our guard quite yet, though - it wouldn't surprise me if there are still two packs and they both targeted my fair queen last night.

[Mithalwen]

Well that may be the case but we have to meet the dead part way here. We have ten living as options and ideally they should have choice since with reduced numbers the extra vote may decide the voting.

[McCaber]

Going off of Nerwen's list (are we allowed to call her the seer now that she's dead?), the potential wolves still around are:

Formendacil
mormegil
Mithalwen
Kath
and myself.

At a maximum there are three wolves on that list thanks to Boro and Nerwen's efforts, and if we managed to get even one ourselves earlier (or if the wolves killed one off in their internecine feuding) we are looking at a rather short game ahead of us.

[mormegil]

Not a surprise about Nerwen. I'm still puzzled why she didn't give more info yesterday. It seemed fairly obvious it would be her last Day with us. The question now is do we have two packs that hunted her, one pack left (how many?) or 2 packs with a ranger protection? It makes me hopeful that we only have one pack and Nilp was the sole survivor of his pack, though I don't think he would have self-voted in that case. He was either the member of a pack with more than 1 or innocent, although he acted quite oddly.

I hope we can assume that Boro didn't go after Nerwen.

McCaber, I disagree with your list. Nerwen said to hold off on Eomer but not dismiss him. She indicated he was part of a riddle that she hadn't puzzled out yet. To me this isn't the free pass card. The other problem is that she never confirmed the others innocent. In fact she only told us those that are dead were innocent i.e. phantom and Firefoot. Also, it's important to note that in 625 it would seem she knew something of Boromir but didn't know the full picture. She had a bit of distrust in the role too. We don't really know Boro's motives which makes me nervous.

As far as making a list, I think we've reached the point where doing so would be challenging to pull off without fear of wolfish influence. We have potentially 3 to 4 wolves dead and with so many potential scry targets now it will be a one to one ratio at best, right? This could give the dead an unfavorable situation in deciding whom to give the extra vote to. I would suggest they take the information they have and use it as best they see fit.

I'll try and think more on this tomorrow when I wake up, but in full disclosure, I've got a very busy morning at work tomorrow so I may be limited in my time. Anyway what I'm thinking is we need to make sure we give the dead options to choose from. If they only have one person but that person is evil and giving them the vote will negatively influence the outcome we are at a loss. Could we ask the question in a way that would give them two candidates for each option?

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by mormegil

McCaber, I disagree with your list. Nerwen said to hold off on Eomer but not dismiss him. She indicated he was part of a riddle that she hadn't puzzled out yet. To me this isn't the free pass card. The other problem is that she never confirmed the others innocent. In fact she only told us those that are dead were innocent i.e. phantom and Firefoot. Also, it's important to note that in 625 it would seem she knew something of Boromir but didn't know the full picture. She had a bit of distrust in the role too. We don't really know Boro's motives which makes me nervous.

This is true, looking back and reading the text of Nerwen's posts instead of just the list. I am still assuming that sally is as she claims, because at this point one of the two lovers would have said something if she wasn't.

Do you think Boro might be a werebear working against the village? Nerwen said that she hadn't checked him yet, and without that guarantee it seems at least plausible that he might be an independent agent.

___

Re: the dead thread--

I think we've reached the point in the game where we can stop using their vote as a source of information and instead rely on them to use their extra information to make appropriate choices on who to lynch. There are still enough wolves left in this reduced village that I wouldn't put it past one of them to cook up a list where the most likely possibilities the dead can give us correspond to empowering a wolf. Because we don't have enough living voters to give the dead a second option for most of the possible people they could scry, I think we're better off relying on them to make the proper calls themselves.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by McCaber

(are we allowed to call her the seer now that she's dead?)

Wait... seer? I can only assume this is why Eomer was calling me denser than dense yesterDay, but--just so I'm clear here--she didn't actually say "I'm the seer" anywhere, right? That's just the inference people have made: Boro is the special, so Nerwen can't be the special, ergo she must be the Seer?

Okay, that's logical.


I feel rather overwhelmingly idiotic. But was this really never actually put into words by anyone?


Okay, on to toDay...

As per usual, I won't be back until the waning hours. In the meantime, I am wondering where we're at for possible Night Kill permutations:

1. Wolves I, Wolves II, and Boro all tried to kill Nerwen.

2. Two of the above went for Nerwen, the third was stopped killing someone else by the Ranger.

3. 1 of the above went for Nerwen, one was stopped by the Ranger, one is eliminated.

4. 1 of the above went for Nerwen, two were eliminated.


Since Boro is still here, I think we can assume he hasn't been eliminated, and it seems unlikely in the extreme that all six wolves are gone, so I will say we can provisionally exclude #4... but beyond that, we'd need Boro to tell us who--if anyone--he tried to kill last night (assuming he can be trusted) and possibly a ranger reveal.

The only scenario in which a Ranger reveal would help--that I can see--is if the Ranger protected someone last night who was not Nerwen and Boro did not attempt to kill. That would indicate that two non-Boro killers are still active.

[Boromir88]

Nope I didn't kill anyone last night.

I was considering Form because of his previous days posting, which got really creepy, really quickly. But I'm trying to exercise a little bit of restraint and caution. I'm completely off today so I can dedicate some additional effort to lynching wolves during the day as well.

We need to find out what the dead know. Can anyone think of a reason the Dead would not have checked Lalaith last night?

And again I'm going to assume the Ranger is still alive. In which case I will say again don't protect me. I may, or may not still have some more to take down before I'm gone. Feels good knowing I at least got one.

[mormegil]

Boro, you've still not indicated your allegiance. Is it to yourself or the village? Dumb question, I know, because you can simply tell us the village and we have no way of verifying. I commend you for your kill of Macwolf; however I'm still uncertain of Lalwolf and you never indicated what you felt suspicious about her.

Additionally, I've been thinking about Kath and there are two major concerns that are brought to my mind. First, she could be a wolf who is hiding by posting minimally. A viable strategy to be sure and she has been somewhat immune to any major suspicion up to this point. It's also a strategy that helps ensure you don't get to be a target of a seer dream. Second, if she is innocent, she becomes a liability the further we go. We will need all villagers to be present and up to speed on what's going on. Overall, this is a concern we need addressed.

Boromir, to your question about Lal being a target for the dead, it would seem probable. A situation like that should be easy enough to orchestrate.

Something like this:

If Lalaith is a wolf give your vote to:
Form
Sally
McCaber


If she's not, give the vote to:
Boromir88
Thinlómien
Eomer


If you don't know give your vote to:
mormegil
Shastanis Althreduin
Mithalwen
Kath

Thoughts? Approval?

[Mithalwen]

Not sure that Lalaith is the most useful information at this point. If Nerwen were the Seer she may have had her dreams before she died. Wouldn't it be more useful to contrive something to find out something out abput the living since we must be nearing a very delicate stage.

Personally speaking, while it would make days easier to be a proven innocent such identification post lynch vote might be counterproductive in that it pins a nice target for the wolves. So maybe only ask them to identify a known wolf.. obviously not by giving them the bonus vote but with either prearranged "pairs" or other system?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I don't know if this is a stretch, but did anyone else have the feeling that Nilp may have been empowered by the Dead yesterday? If so, the narration is quite cryptic; but it does mention that Nilp jumped up and pulled the lever on himself - he didn't cast the deciding vote as a few people voted him after his self-vote, so I'm puzzled that he's described as pulling the lever.

Could be nothing more than a joke, of course, but if not then it would indicate that Legate was innocent.

Depending on who the Ranger is and who they tried to save (if still in the village) we might be able to narrow it down from 4 (Morm, Form, Mith & Kath) to 3 or 2. Then I'd say it's just a matter of killing them off one by one.

Note that I'm taking Sally's post yesterday as proof of a certain someone's innocence, but if that was some sort of in-joke then we should really get that confirmed.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh, and Form: yes.

I must say it was brilliant stuff from Nerwen. I so wanted my earlier theory about the special role to be right, though!

[Mithalwen]

Well I that is the case there there are enough living to give a choice of 2 for each wolf candidate plus single option for no positively identified wolves living and "you are working on wrong assumptions"

As for Kath, though I rued giving her the benefit of the doubt all those years ago - I think in Di's wereduck game..- I think there is a good chance she will be back on Friday. Maybe back off til then? Personally I am a bit concerned about mormegil still and Form .. just doesn't seem himself.is For someone so intelligent he hasn't been at his brightest,

As for morm... well his non reasons for suspecting me are suspicious to me at least. Just seemed like the sort of thing a wolf might do to draw fire. I am not saying I regard myself as above suspicion, on the contrary a case could have been made from the first days when I was bored and frustrated from having no certainties, pointless philosophising and being expected to be no more than a playing piece in the phantom's game. But shall read back and see if anything becomes more concrete,

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Not sure that Lalaith is the most useful information at this point. If Nerwen were the Seer she may have had her dreams before she died. Wouldn't it be more useful to contrive something to find out something out abput the living since we must be nearing a very delicate stage.

Personally speaking, while it would make days easier to be a proven innocent such identification post lynch vote might be counterproductive in that it pins a nice target for the wolves. So maybe only ask them to identify a known wolf.. obviously not by giving them the bonus vote but with either prearranged "pairs" or other system?

Ahh this is an excellent idea. Makes me feel a whole lot better about you too. I have no idea right now on Eomer, Kath, and morm. I feel pretty good about Shasta's innocence and Form's guilt but neither are certainties in my mind. I'm inclined to trust sally's one of the lovers still. So now, I guess it comes down to whether we can get on the same page.

Boro, you've still not indicated your allegiance. Is it to yourself or the village? Dumb question, I know, because you can simply tell us the village and we have no way of verifying. I commend you for your kill of Macwolf; however I'm still uncertain of Lalwolf and you never indicated what you felt suspicious about her.~morm

I've been intentionally cryptic I know...but don't doubt there's nothing I want to do more right now than kill wolves...either through the lynch or more personal hands-on. Preferably both.

So, if you trust that fact about me...then I think Mith's suggestion of trying to uncover Nerwen's previous dreams and uncover the living players is a great idea. It only works though if you lot trust my desire is to purge this place of wolves.

Mith, are you thinking of something like...

If Nerwen dreamed...

-Form a wolf, than dead give their bonus vote to me

-Eomer a wolf, give the bonus vote to sally

The one thing is we don't have enough current trusted innocents to cover the living unknown players.

[Mithalwen]

It depends on whose reckoning you take as trusted innocent. If you get down to four suspects then you can have vote x or y for each and have a couple spares for zero wolf and pigs ear options. However if the presumptions of innocence are less certain then it is harder. We could make an educate guess on who a Nerwen seer would have chosen maybe... if we have the 2 most certain innocents as the single options and pair a more innocent seeming player with the main targets it gives the dead a chance to send a clear message without empowering a strong wolf candidate.

I

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I've been intentionally cryptic I know...but don't doubt there's nothing I want to do more right now than kill wolves...either through the lynch or more personal hands-on. Preferably both.

Will you please tell us if you are on our side? This response did not reassure me of that. A werebear type role would want the wolves eliminated too.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mith, are you thinking of something like...

If Nerwen dreamed...

-Form a wolf, than dead give their bonus vote to me

-Eomer a wolf, give the bonus vote to sally

The one thing is we don't have enough current trusted innocents to cover the living unknown players.

It's a fine idea, however I would recommend having at least two options for the dead to pick who the vote goes to. Again, you are asking we trust you, when I simply cannot at this stage. You have too many variables about you. I trust Sally and I trusted Nerwen. While we can assume you are not a wolf (unless you are a lone wolf type scenario) we don't know you are innocent. We know you can kill whom you pick at night.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

As for morm... well his non reasons for suspecting me are suspicious to me at least. Just seemed like the sort of thing a wolf might do to draw fire. I am not saying I regard myself as above suspicion, on the contrary a case could have been made from the first days when I was bored and frustrated from having no certainties, pointless philosophising and being expected to be no more than a playing piece in the phantom's game. But shall read back and see if anything becomes more concrete,

Mith, go back and read my earlier post on this. I think you will understand why I've done what I've done on this matter. It's to help me read you and gauge your reaction.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mith, are you thinking of something like...

If Nerwen dreamed...

-Form a wolf, than dead give their bonus vote to me

-Eomer a wolf, give the bonus vote to sally

The one thing is we don't have enough current trusted innocents to cover the living unknown players.

This is an excellent idea (kudos to Mith).

However, not sure I'm following through. I always thought Nerwen dreamed of me, Shasta and Eomer as well - why would she otherwise have told the village not to vote any of us? Just because she was personally leaning towards considering us innocent? Wouldn't that have been a rather reckless move from a seer? Given that she didn't say "I would prefer not lynching x, y or z" but rather "trust me, let's not lynch these folks toDay" (not a direct quote but you get the drift).

I want to check Nerwen's posts and do a little maths anyway. I have a feeling something doesn't add up, and I'm most baffled about her telling the ranger not to protect herself and not explicitly saying she was the seer if she was so certain she's going to die anyway. (I mean, it was a brilliant move not to say it in the beginning, but not saying it late-ish yesterDay makes me scratch my head a little.)

And I'm not saying Nerwen wasn't the seer. I still believe she was. There's just something weird going on. Also, by checking again whose roles she cleared or indicated and how many dreams she'd have had maybe we can achieve a mutual agreement whether she dreamed of me, Eomer and Shasta or not.

Lastly but not least, I'm still a tiny bit unsure about Boro. What he's doing would be a bold but pretty good move from a wolf. I'm definitely not suggesting lynching him anytime soon, but I'm not sure we should trust him 100%.

I am sorry this game is making me paranoid, but to be honest I'm mostly sorry for myself.

[Mithalwen]

Lommy, don't quite get you... that is Boro's variant not mine.. I was thinking of the 4/5 including me listed by Eomer...

However I have had an idea that is either bonkers or genius and I am not sure which. We know that there must be a majority of innocents in the dead thread now and that they seem to be horrifically active. I know given my vehement opposition to rigged voting day one but if we arranged a tie either of the unknowns or even go the whole hog and all just self vote then the dead can either take out a known wolf or if they don't know any leave us all to bicker another day. Too much of a risk of something going wrong?

[Thinlómien]

Nerwen straightforwardly said innocent
[the phantom]
[Firefoot]

Nerwen said don't vote
Lommy
Eomer
Shasta

Nerwen said guilty
[Mac]
[Lottie]

Otherwise notable
Nerwen was very quick to believe Boro - another seer dream? My memory is a little fuzzy, but she may have said the same about Sally.

Including Boro or Sally would add up to 8 seer dreams, the correct amount for 4 nights. If Nerwen had dreamed of someone else (probably a dead person), I don't see why she wouldn't have mentioned it.

I'm still going to read her posts, but this is a good starting point.

This would also mean our remaining wolves are among

Morm
Form
Kath
Mith
McCaber

possibly but probably not Boro

(not Sally if we take her reveal at face value, which I still would)

Personally the ones I'm urgently worried about are Morm, Form and Kath.

[Thinlómien]

Mith, I just meant that it's a good idea to try to find out dead Nerwen's dreams like you suggested. Okay, it may be kind of obvious but it didn't occur to me. I wouldn't follow Boro's concrete suggestion. As far as I can see, we should set up you, Kath, morm, Form and possibly Boro himself as the dream options. We are exactly 10 now, so setting up a system to figure out any of the five seer dream options would mean using all the ten of us, including the unknown, as empowering options. Also I'm not sure if we shouldn't add an option for "hey living you completely misinterpreted Nerwen's posts, halt!"

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

[. Also I'm not sure if we shouldn't add an option for "hey living you completely misinterpreted Nerwen's posts, halt!"

OK that was what I meant by the pig's ear option (as in the British colloquial expression "you've made a pig's ear of that" meaning messed it up. However that was when I was working on the basis that Mc Caber was regarded as innocent.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen said don't vote
Lommy
Eomer
Shasta

.

Here's the problem with that and something I keep coming back to, she said don't vote for them today but never did she indicate innocence. I think we are doing a great disservice by not looking at them. Shasta and Eomer have been a particular concern of mine on those list of 3 so I'm not willing to give them a pass which seems others are.

[mormegil]

Is this what you are thinking:

If:
morm is a wolf give vote to Form or McCaber
Form is a wolf give vote to morm or Lommy
Kath is a wolf give vote to Eomer or Mith
Mith is a wolf give vote to Kath or Shasta
McCaber is a wolf give vote to Boro
No dreams on this list as wolf give vote to Sally

That spreads it out and I'm willing to give Boro the single vote as well as it's known that he's at least not a wolf though his motivations are unclear.

[Thinlómien]

[blatantly clipped seer dream hunt]


Day1

Absolutely no indication of who she dreamed. Only a couple of posts, discussing rules and strategies. No suspicions or trusted people named.

Conclusion: Nerwen decided to lay low for Day1.


Day2

Originally Posted by Nerwen, first post, directly referring to the Night kills

I'll look Rune's posts over. (Not phantom's. I mean, come on!)

In other news, I think the narration indicates both Lovers are still alive.

You could read this as indication she dreamed of tp on Night2 when he died and that's why she's not going over his posts.

Mild suspicion of Rikae, no clear opinion on dead Rune. Finds Macalaure fishy. Considers morm's behaviour "eyebrow-raising". Jokingly tells Shasta not to leave her, which might or might not be a clue to his innocence. Finds the first Agan-wagon suspicious and doesn't want to indicate Agan is guilty. Wonders if morm and Mac were interacting wolf-on-wolf. Inclined to think tp was an ordo. Confused about Form. Doesn't think Lommy-Agan was wolf-on-wolf. More suspicion of Mac and votes him. Not "entirely easy" on Firefoot and morm.

Conclusion: dreams this far the phantom and Mac, I'm pretty sure about that. Apart from that: Shasta? Agan? Myself? Looks like up next: Firefoot? Maybe myself? I'm really baffled btw that she never checked morm.


Day3

*the day she started talking about her special role*

Assumes Agan was the hunter. Notes Eomer's cryptic statements.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Okay. So that’s what you are, Sally. Let me think about this.

Also she doesn't think a wolf would have revealed as a lover. I'm getting the vibe she didn't dream of Sally.

Says the dead should check Greenie. Wants opinions on Nilp. Keeps assuming Legate was innocent (possibly as a ruse to hide her own seerdom). Asks opinions about Lottie. Also asks about Eomer and Firefoot. Lommy and Boro are among those she asks opinions from. Also asks thoughts about Boro and Mac. Mildly agrees with theories advocating morm and Agan's innocence. Names Mac and Lottie as wolves.

Conclusion: dreamed this far: the phantom, Mac and Lottie. Possible: Eomer, Firefoot, Boro, Shasta, Lommy, Agan.


Day 4

Not knowledgeable about Lalaith.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Pretty sure Firefoot was innocent, though- can't hurt to let you know that.

That's a dream right there, probably from the Night before.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Boro, I had actually thought you might be the secret role for some time, and I don't doubt your reveal, and that you are not on the side of the wolves. I hope you'll understand, though, if I point out that we can't really be sure you're on the side of the village. Just something everyone needs to bear in mind.

Iiiinteresting. Had she dreamed of him, she'd have received a message saying "PREDATOR" or "PREY", right? So did she dream of him and get a PM saying something that's not written in the rules? Does that mean we should be worried about Boro's allegiance? Or is she just saying this because she just thought (no seer dreams involved) he was the special role?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Anyway, from what I can work out, we should be looking for the remaining wolves amongst the following people:

Formendacil
McCaber
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Mithalwen
Kath

This is assuming Boro and Sally are telling the truth, of course, but there's good reason to think so.

Indication she has cleared me, Eomer and Shasta. Indication she has a reason to trust Boro and Sally??

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Of course. They're cute. Lommy is a dear little penguin, Eomer is a fluffy-widdle puppy warg, and sure you don't expect me to lynch my king?
I would have left Nilp off, too, save for his sorely-deluded views on koalas.

...Er, I mean, no, I can't tell you. The riddle-message I was sent indicates a certain course of action, but that's as much as I say just now.

This should be ample proof she dreamed of me, Eomer and Shasta. Really curious about Nilp.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Did I mention it looks as though tp was indeed innocent?

Her making a single post only saying this (combined with what she said about Firefoot earlier) makes me think she would have told us had she dreamed of more dead innocents. I mean, why only tell us about the phantom and Firefoot but not others?

Side note:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now I may have some more to add later. For now, though, in case I can't get online again, I'll just say that the Ranger had better not waste a protection on me. Among other things I don't think I'll be getting any more pms anyway and we've got (effectively) a whole bunch of known innocents now.

This still baffles me. Did Kuru decide to stop giving her dreams because she'd have cleared the wolves too quickly for the game to stay balanced and tell her but not us? Or what? Also "whole bunch of known innocents" again points at me, Eomer and Shasta, not only Boro and Sally. In fact anyone ignoring the proof for me, Shasta and Eomer's innocence looks mighty fishy to me (looking at morm atm). Nerwen is making it very clear.

Another side note:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

One thing I'd like to suggest is that toMorrow we try to set up a way of asking about Living players? What do you think?

That's a massive hint hint that we should try to ask about her dreams. I'm not sure why she's still so cryptic though...

Votes Nilp and says it's him "regardless".

Conclusion: Dreamed the phantom, Firefoot, Lottie, Mac, Lommy, Eomer and Nilp. Last dream either Boro or Agan. I really wish I knew...


edit: xed with a bunch

[Thinlómien]

Nights 1 and 2
the phantom
Mac
Shasta?
rather Agan than Lommy but maybe one of them? or even Boro without mentioning it??

Night 3
Lottie
Boro? Lommy?

Night4
pretty sure it was Firefoot and Eomer

Honestly, the most logical explanation to me would be that she dreamed innocent the phantom, Shasta, Lommy, Eomer and Firefoot, and guilty Lottie and Mac. The eighth dream? Guess what, Agan actually makes more sense to me than Boro, just because of the timing. Of course, if she received a confusing message about Boro's role, she might have just kept quiet, which would be enough to muddle up my maths.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Is this what you are thinking:

If:
morm is a wolf give vote to Form or McCaber
Form is a wolf give vote to morm or Lommy
Kath is a wolf give vote to Eomer or Mith
Mith is a wolf give vote to Kath or Shasta
McCaber is a wolf give vote to Boro
No dreams on this list as wolf give vote to Sally

That spreads it out and I'm willing to give Boro the single vote as well as it's known that he's at least not a wolf though his motivations are unclear.

Not really, we need to be able to figure out if someone is innocent as well.

Rather:

If morm is innocent, give an extra vote to morm
If morm is guilty, give an extra vote to Sally
If Form is innocent, give an extra vote to Form
If Form is guilty, give an extra vote to Lommy
If Kath is innocent, give an extra vote to Kath
If Kath is guilty, give an extra vote to Eomer
If Mith is innocent, give an extra vote to Mith
If Mith is guilty, give an extra vote to Shasta
If McCaber is innocent, don't give an extra vote
If McCaber is guilty, give an extra vote to Boro
If the village is screwing up or there's something else alarming such as Boro being a wolf (we can clarify this the next Day if needs be), give an extra vote to McCaber


Also, Kuru the God, can you tell us:

What happens if the dead reach a tie when voting for whom to empower?
If the dead abstain from voting, will we be told?

[Thinlómien]

PS. I know my voting scheme is not perfect, but I can't think of a better one. We give the dead a lot of power to randomly affect the lynch, but personally I don't mind as we're lynching one of the great unknowns - Form, morm, Mith, Kath or McCaber - anyway (or??) and at this point I don't really care whom because I don't have very much idea who the remaining wolves are. Mean but pragmatic.

[Thinlómien]

Also just saying that the panic button can't be not empowering anyone because that's an option one wolf in the dead thread (for example Lottie who has nothing to lose anymore) can mess up.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Is this what you are thinking:

If:
morm is a wolf give vote to Form or McCaber
Form is a wolf give vote to morm or Lommy
Kath is a wolf give vote to Eomer or Mith
Mith is a wolf give vote to Kath or Shasta
McCaber is a wolf give vote to Boro
No dreams on this list as wolf give vote to Sally

That spreads it out and I'm willing to give Boro the single vote as well as it's known that he's at least not a wolf though his motivations are unclear.

Yes that would do nicely. Save of course that until we actually vote we don't know how the double vote will affect the lynch. Innocents may be innocence doesn't equal infallible judgement. But I suppose we just have to take our chances

[satansaloser2005]

Posting to remind myself that Eomer asked me a question of sorts and I need to respond to it. If he could clarify what he means (as I can't go back through the thread), that would be lovely. I'll return in a bit over four hours, and am unlikely to check the thread again before then, sorry.

[Thinlómien]

Posting to remind people we should decide about the dead thread communication asap. If no better suggestion emerges I will be reading their vote according to my scheme above. (Assuming I'm alive, which I should be.)

Currently the most suspicious about morm. He has seemed quite innocent so far, but recently he's been giving me the vibe of a wolf who feels the tide turning against him. Notably in his way to ignore what Nerwen said about Eomer, Shasta and me, and proposing a play-it-safe yet fairly uninformative voting scheme. Granted, especially the latter might just seem fishy to me because he and I have (and have always had ) a very different way of thinking, but he's the only one that's ringing my alarms atm.

I still think Form mostly seems like a confused innocent and Mith seems pretty good too, as does McCaber. Kath is a big question mark.

I hope Nerwen & the other dead let us know if they have reason to believe Boro is pulling our leg, and that we leave the option open for them to do so.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Yes that would do nicely. Save of course that until we actually vote we don't know how the double vote will affect the lynch. Innocents may be innocence doesn't equal infallible judgement. But I suppose we just have to take our chances

This is exactly why I'm trying to avoid having a 1:1 assignment that Lommy has. The impact on the vote today could be harmful. Whereas we help mitigate that risk by giving the dead some options.

sorry about today, I'm writing hurried posts between meetings.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Will you please tell us if you are on our side? This response did not reassure me of that. A werebear type role would want the wolves eliminated too.

The only ones who should be worried about my allegiance are the wolves. I'm no were, grizzly, koala, or any kind of bear. I'm just a lonely killer, temporarily satisfied by the blood of wolves.

I'm cool with Lommy's scheme, that would cover all possible options.

Although, Mith's idea here:

However I have had an idea that is either bonkers or genius and I am not sure which. We know that there must be a majority of innocents in the dead thread now and that they seem to be horrifically active. I know given my vehement opposition to rigged voting day one but if we arranged a tie either of the unknowns or even go the whole hog and all just self vote then the dead can either take out a known wolf or if they don't know any leave us all to bicker another day. Too much of a risk of something going wrong?

I would put more on the genius. I mean it would be the best way for the Dead to have power and help us. I don't think it could go wrong on their end. It may go wrong on the living end, simply if one living wolf breaks rank and messes it up. Of course it would mean they're exposed as a wolf, but by the time we may not have the numbers to do anything about it. We still can't be sure if there's 1 pack or 2, or even if I was right about Lalaith.

To answer morm's question on my suspicions of Lalaith/why I targeted her. As I said yesterday, it was a later decision, because I had in mind to leave the clue as I had before (calling Eomer "den-dweller"), but when I was going through everything from that day and Nerwen's reveals. Lalaith had been playing under the radar, but still was sounding really certain about Lottie and Mac's guilt. And after all these years I still remember Mith's words about sounding certain as a sign of a wolf. Granted, that's a bit simplified, but I figured her certainty made her look guilty more than gifted, and worse than Eomer's posts about sacrificing one of the lovers for information.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The only ones who should be worried about my allegiance are the wolves. I'm no were, grizzly, koala, or any kind of bear. I'm just a lonely killer, temporarily satisfied by the blood of wolves.

Does this raise red flags to anyone else? The use of the word temporarily creeps me out.