Survivor: The Second Age

[Diamond18]

Mwah ha ha ha. *stokes the flames for a nice Entfire* Sorry, Eomer ol' chap....

[the phantom]

Mwah ha ha ha. *stokes the flames for a nice Entfire*

Heh heh... How much you want to bet he's made from extremely slow burning wood?

[Formendacil]

OFFICIAL NOTICE OF LENGTHENED DAY:

Due to the Barrow-downs having been down these past few hours, this Day will remain open to voting for a goodly number of hours, probably in the are of 15-20, until such time as I can end it.

~Michael A. Joosten - Moderator~

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Don't worry Treebeard, I still love you.

He could defeat anyone on that list in a fight. All he needs to do is step on them.

Let the Ent depart then; but let the ants fight among themselves for this dainty.

[Lhunardawen]

Senseless, but hey!

++CELEBRIAN

for reasons already stated because really, what else is there to say against her?

For Treebeard and Eomer of the Rohirrim!

[Formendacil]

Prolonged due to the 'Downs being down, Day nineteen was nonetheless far from being near to winning "Longest Day Ever" of Survivor: The Second Age. The voting, such as it was, fell as follows:

Celebrimbor: I

Celebrían: II

Fangorn (Treebeard): IIIII

Much like his speech, the voters thought that Fangorn had gone on far too long...

HOUSEKEEPING:

In case no one's noticed, I didn't analyse the votes publicly. All of them were valid, in any event.

Those remaining:

Tribe of Those Born Immortal:
Celeborn
Galadriel
Celebrían
Celebrimbor

Tribe of Those Born Mortal:
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel
Anárion
The Witch-king
Narvi

Day 20 begins now, with the Mortal tribe one up on the Immortal tribe. Vote away!

[Lhunardawen]

For the sake of equality, I'll be getting off Celebrian's case for a while. Unless someone joins the bandwagon...

++NARVI

Aside from being the draw-er of those signs on the puzzling door into Moria that wasted a good few hours of the Fellowship's time, who is he?

[Firefoot]

++Celeborn

How is this guy still around? As stated earlier in much greater detail, he lives in Galadriel's shadow and is apparently incapable of independent thought. Bad traits in an Elf lord.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

+ + Narvi

So the best he and his elf buddy could come up
with for a password was "Friend"? Let's face
it, either of these two wouldn't even edge out Hama as
a doorwarden.

[Gil-Galad]

aye i would have to go with ++Narvi as well

[Lalaith]

++ELROS

Because he's claiming to have been born mortal and he wasn't. He chose mortality...and also what I said earlier about keeping his wife hidden away in the kitchen.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

++ELROS

Because he's claiming to have been born mortal and he wasn't. He chose mortality...and also what I said earlier about keeping his wife hidden away in the kitchen.

I know nothing of kitchens and the wives stored therein, but Tolkien's verdict is, in fact, that Elros was born mortal.

Were it not for the special grace of choosing granted to Eärendil, Elwing, and their children, they would all have died- mortal. Tolkien states in one of the later volumes of the HoME that any half-Elf would, by default, have been mortal. The special grace by which Eärendil, Elwing, and Elrond began Elven was just that- special grace.

Hence, Dior, Eluchíl, and Eluréd- and the children of Mithrellas (ie. the first prince of Dol Amroth) were all... Mortal.

[Lalaith]

Oh goodness me, I never should have opened up the Peredhil can of worms....you're the boss, Formy.

[Anguirel]

++ELROS TAR-MINYATUR

For being not so much a King of Numenor...as a worm in a can. Fie and shame upon him, starter of barren discussions!

For obviously failing his foster-father Maglor's vision of doomed romance by being mortal, wealthy and comfortable.

For dying of old age, not foeman's blade.

And for living on the charity of the tyrannical Valar.

This will be my last vote in Survivor for some time as the Latin lands call. Forward Celeborn, worthy victor and independent Elf Lord!

[Diamond18]

2 for Narvi, 2 for Elros, and 1 for Celeborn.

Celeborn, while possessing many fine traits I am sure, took a back seat to Galadriel. Even a cursory glance of Tolkien's works show that. Therefore, there is no way he should outlast Galadriel in the game. I'm not much into the politics of major characters versus minor characters -- but really if Celeborn isn't going to win the whole thing (and he shouldn't), I see no reason to keep prolonging the discussion about him. We all know he can't beat Galadriel so let's not put ourselves through the pain of forcing a vote-off between the two of them.

+ + Celeborn

[Celuien]

No! I won't stand by while Celeborn is attacked!

++ELROS

For choosing mortality and running off to Numenor to live off the Valar.

[Elu Ancalime]

++Narvi

Perhaps the least important of the dwarves known only for smithy. Telchar overshadowed him, and Gamil Ziriak. Also, If he made the Doors of Moria, did he not realize what he did? He revealed the name of DUrin to anypasserbyer, and he was quick to jump on the fact that his home was a black pit. Narvi spread a bad image of the Longbeards, being hasty and open.

Elros lived to be 500. He was the greatest and most benevolent of all the Kings of Numenore, the grandest kingdom of Men. He has Elvish and divine Maia blood. How could you vote against him?
________
Ford Model B (1904) History

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

This will be my last vote in Survivor for some time as the Latin lands call. Forward Celeborn, worthy victor and independent Elf Lord!

Hehehehehe... *evil grin*

When the cat is away, daga will play.

[Firefoot]

Well, Elros was the other chap I was considering voting for today, and being that he's gaining a lot more support than Celeborn...

--Celeborn
++Elros

About the only thing Elros has going for him is a cool name (Tar-Minyatur - I do rather like that...). Other than that, he's not that interesting. And he causes his brother a great deal of grief by choosing mortality. Not very loving. Other than that, he did remarkably little except for live for a really long time. If you look him up in the Numenorean kings chapter in UT, that's about all it says about him. Obviously he didn't do anything worthy of winning Survivor.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Celuien

No! I won't stand by while Celeborn is attacked!

You know, the longer you keep him in the game, the more likely it will be you are dooming him to a face-off with his wife for supremacy, and that could get ugly. For him.

However, as this round seems to be coming down between Elros and Narvi, if I want to actually be involved I'm going to have to change my vote.

- - Celeborn

+ + Narvi

Someone else brought this up already, but I must agree -- what kind of security is "Speak 'Friend' and Enter"? All you have to do is read the sign out loud in Elvish and voila, you can get in! That's about as good as writing, "The password is Friend. Say it. Frrrriiiieeeeend" above the door. So what if the door was created in "friendlier" times... when exactly in Middle-earth history was it ever safe to have such an easy door guard?

[Firefoot]

Look at it this way: who is going to attack them that way anyway? Orcs, but they aren't going to be able to read the Elvish. Any other attackers (still not sure who) probably wouldn't even get that far before they were noticed.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I side with my sister.

++Narvi

For being a non-entity. Seriously, we wouldn't even have heard of him if he hadn't written his name on that blasted door.

[Formendacil]

This Day will be twice as long as normal due to:

A.) Laziness of the Moderator

B.) To attract more votes per day.

Please note, Reason B. is an excuse for Reason A.

[Lhunardawen]

Your honesty is astounding, Moderadacil.

[Lalaith]

Oh, btw, to avoid vote-voiding, my wife-kitchen reference was actually the reason I gave for voting off Elendil in post 457. But the reasoning still holds as we are never told the name of Elros' wife....
There was clearly something weird going on in that family. The eldest boy, born to be king, abdicates instead. The only girl is called "daughter of twilight", and that's all we know about her. We don't know much about the two younger boys, either. I think Elros got very depressed by his decision to be mortal and infected his children with his gloom.

[The Saucepan Man]

There are (I think) currently 6 votes for Narvi and 4 votes for Elros, although Gil-Galad’s vote for Narvi is questionable, to put it mildly.

Anyone else fancy altering the dull way this day is going and changing (or changing back) their vote to Celeborn? I’ll kick us off.

+ + CELEBORN

Previous reasoning applies.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Yep. Celeborn is rather dull, no match for girl elves.

- - Narvi

+ + Celeborn

[Diamond18]

I don't know, Sauce. Even if I change my vote back to Celeborn, that will only increase him to 3 votes and reduce Narvi to 4 (possibly 3 considering Gil's vote). Whereas Elros has 4. As I see it, such a move on my part at this point would be just as useful as changing my vote to Elros.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by D18

As I see it, such a move on my part at this point would be just as useful as changing my vote to Elros.

Only if no one else follows. But if you (like the admirable Tuor) lead the way, others will surely follow.

What we need here is leadership, a quality in which Celeborn, skulking pathetically behind his wife, is sadly lacking ...

[Diamond18]

Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt. I feel pretty neutral between Narvi and Elros, so if Elros goes instead of Narvi because of this, it's not that big a deal. Sorry for all the changing, Form, but really, you brought it on yourself...

- - Narvi

+ + Celeborn

For reasons stated the first time I vote for him toDay.

[The 1,000 Reader]

Due to the simplicity of the Moria door, I vote

++Narvi.

It worked on the Fellowship, but people weren't as dumb when it was made.

[Gil-Galad]

well narvi was just a dwarf that tried to make the fame in his door but failed when he really needed a door to keep the Balrog out

[Formendacil]

Day twenty was double the normal day's length, and was a contest mainly between Narvi, Elros, and - yet again - Celeborn. The voting, such as it was, fell as follows:

Celeborn: III

Elros Tar-Minyatur: IIII

Narvi: IIIII I

And so the Dwarves were removed from the running in the championship for Survivor: The Second Age.

HOUSEKEEPING:

Yes, I didn't analyse the votes publicly. Partly, I'm lazy (it's been a long week...) but also in large part because people are mostly voting under the parameters I requested. Since the "rule" was never intended to be more than a prod in that direction, I have dispense with it for the TIME BEING.

Please note that this is subject to change at any time.

Those remaining:

Tribe of Those Born Immortal:
Celeborn
Galadriel
Celebrían
Celebrimbor

Tribe of Those Born Mortal:
Elros Tar-Minyatur
Tar-Míriel
Anárion
The Witch-king

Day 21 begins now, with the tribes neck-and-neck. Vote away!

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Celeborn.

At least Elros ruled Numenor. Celeborn was the pet of his wife.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I realised that he must go, for the sake of my strategy.

++Celeborn

He was a shadow.

First Age: Stayed in Doriath, did nothing.

Second Age: Roamed around, built a little Elven enclave (big deal, even Legolas's grandpa got to do that), did little else.

Third Age: Stayed in his little Elven enclave until the victory has been won at Mt. Doom. Then he went and 'ruled' Rivendell after the departure of most of the greater ones.

He must go, and go now!

[The Saucepan Man]

Aye, 'tis time that Celeborn finally packed his bags.

+ + CELEBORN

Reasons? Surely you know my reasons by now. I have enumerated them numerously enough.

In summary, a poor specimen of Elven Lordhood, who relied almost entirely on his wife for his reputation and his power.

[Celuien]

Really, when will you learn that votes for Celeborn will not be tolerated?

++Tar-Míriel

What kind of role model princess allows herself to be forced into marriage by and with her scheming, rotten cousin? Should have sent the no-good Pharazôn packing and ruled as Queen, as she could have done. Yes, it might have caused civil war, but wouldn't that be preferable to letting Pharazôn take over and lead Númenor to destruction? At least they might have had a chance under a good Queen.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Tar-Miriel

A civil war, nasty as it would have been, would seem
to have been as necessary as the American Civil War
was, and (arguably) the English Civil War. And who
knows, she might have at least escaped to Middle-earth
and been the founder of Gondor/Arnor and Company.
But she was obviously no Erendis, Galadriel,
Eowyn, etc.

[Diamond18]

+ + Celeborn

As previously stated, he always took a back seat to his wife, therefore if it's allowed to come down as a vote between Celeborn and Galadriel, no one in their right mind could possibly vote Galadriel off instead. So spare Celeborn the embarressment of losing a head-to-head with his wife and vote him off now, before we get to that sad, ugly point.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

As previously stated, he always took a back seat to his wife, therefore if it's allowed to come down as a vote between Celeborn and Galadriel, no one in their right mind could possibly vote Galadriel off instead.

Of course I could. And I refuse to admit that I'm not in my right mind. Umm. Right...

It comes down to the fact that Celeborn is nicer than Galadriel. Think about it. Who came to Middle-earth seeking subjects to rule? Galadriel. She's power hungry, and we all know that's not a good thing.

I further hypothesize that Celeborn realized Galadriel's tendencies and worked from behind the scenes to keep her dark side in check. All while cleverly not becoming prominent and power hungry himself. Why, Celeborn is a genius. Pure and simple. How could anyone not like him? Other than Sauce, who has already been proven insane by his constant opposition to the noble Lord of Lorien anyway.