Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, Quarantine Thread

[Lhunardawen]

Did Greenie just say she's on sick leave?

Get her!!!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I've finally caught up on everything that happened yesterDay and toDay! From now on, if I say someone looks blatantly wolfish, please lay off them as they’re probably innocent.

Horrible excuses. Horrible excuses again throughout the whole post. This brings back my suspicion of Greenie. "Oh XY is so-and-so I don't know..." I think she may be the worst submarine of all submarine Wolves, and perhaps I should really have voted for her and went after her more while I was still alive.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Day 4 was the stand out...it was our most orderly and organized lynch. That was also the first day the QT was in control of the innocents. It suggests, that perhaps the wolves did decide to bus Lhuna, because it had such a completely different feel than Huey's lynch.

Anything to say about it, Lhuna? Did they bus you?

Also thinking - if the WWs thought Boro a Seer already then (but then, why not kill him there and then?), they could have bussed Lhuna for that reason. But... nah. Doesn't sound likely. But they might have had a different reason.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anything to say about it, Lhuna? Did they bus you?

Come on Leggie, you'll have to be a lot more subtle than that.

[Lhunardawen]

Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions about how I should vote toDay?

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anything to say about it, Lhuna? Did they bus you?

But you know what, why not? Wait, let me try to put something together.

[Lhunardawen]

Let me shamelessly steal Eönwë’s list, for reference. I assume this is accurate.

Lhuna -> Eönwë
Eönwë -> Boro
QT -> Lhuna
Inzil -> Lommy
Lottie -> Boro 2
Greenie -> Zil
The Ka -> Lhuna 2
Pitchwife -> Eönwë 2
Lalaith -> Lhuna 3
Lommy -> Lhuna 4
Rune -> Eönwë 3
Kath -> Lhuna 5
Shasta -> Lhuna 6
Boro -> Eönwë 4
Brinn -> Lhuna 7


Scenario 1: Lhuna was bussed.

Scenario 1.1: Lhuna was bussed by all of her packmates

Infectors: Ka, Lommy, Kath, Shasta, Brinn

Scenario 1.2: Lhuna was bussed by some, but not all, of her packmates.

Infectors: Eonwe, Lottie, Greenie, Ka, Lommy, Rune, Kath, Shasta, Boro, Brinn

Scenario 2: Lhuna was not bussed.

Scenario 2.1: The villagers brilliantly executed her while her packmates stood aghast, unable to do anything.

Infectors: Eonwe, Lottie, Greenie, Rune, Boro

Scenario 2.2: The villagers brilliantly executed her and her packmates decided to come along for the ride.

Infectors: Eonwe, Lottie, Greenie, Ka, Lommy, Rune, Kath, Shasta, Boro, Brinn

Scenario 3: Lhuna sacrificed herself for the greater good.

Scenario 3.1: Her packmates wholeheartedly supported her sacrifice.

Infectors: Ka, Lommy, Kath, Shasta, Brinn

Scenario 3.2: Her packmates were divided about her willingness to sacrifice herself.

Infectors: Eonwe, Lottie, Greenie, Ka, Lommy, Rune, Kath, Shasta, Boro, Brinn

Did I miss anything?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Let's vote for Kath. Inzil's revenge!

Verry tempting. If a wolf, she's been a good submarine, staying on the sidelines and avoiding the spotlight.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

++Brinniel is still an option. It always has been.

I already took you up on it once.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Anyway, Zil, have you seen Lommy's analysis of you? Do you think it's a fair appraisal and that it is highlighting everything that's relevant? I ask because I went over mine wondering if she was skimming over/omitting anything interesting and I couldn't find much, which to me kind of points to her innocence.
Wolves usually miss stuff out, particularly when the person being analysed isn't around to point out errors/omissions. (She did mess up her appraisal of me when I was still around and I jumped on it)

I need to look back over that. I'll try to get to it shortly.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Horrible excuses. Horrible excuses again throughout the whole post. This brings back my suspicion of Greenie. "Oh XY is so-and-so I don't know..." I think she may be the worst submarine of all submarine Wolves, and perhaps I should really have voted for her and went after her more while I was still alive.

It's interesting too how she followed Kath with making safe votes (on me).

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Also thinking - if the WWs thought Boro a Seer already then (but then, why not kill him there and then?), they could have bussed Lhuna for that reason. But... nah. Doesn't sound likely. But they might have had a different reason.

It could be an evil ploy (assuming a Borowolf) to try to elicit more overt hints from the real Seer.

[satansaloser2005]

The Lhunatic is having a grand time, I see!

Shall we ++Steve toDay? I thirst for his blood. Wait a minute, wrong team.

[Lalaith]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

The Lhunatic is having a grand time, I see!

Shall we ++Steve toDay? I thirst for his blood. Wait a minute, wrong team.

Sister from another mister!

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

The Lhunatic is having a grand time, I see!

Shall we ++Steve toDay? I thirst for his blood. Wait a minute, wrong team.

For a moment there I thought you were going to ++ me for having a grand time.

Blame your birthday cake.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I could go with Steve, but main thing I'm afraid of is if people bandwagon on him because of us and he turns to be innocent (plus, the WWs conveniently hide in the bandwagon "oh it was the QT's idea").

I could also go with Ka, to be fair. She's a submarine, but of the suspicious kind.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

When do people have to vote? So that we have enough time to agree on this. (I'm fine until DL, but I know there may be others...)

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I could go with Steve, but main thing I'm afraid of is if people bandwagon on him because of us and he turns to be innocent (plus, the WWs conveniently hide in the bandwagon "oh it was the QT's idea").

Point of inquiry: Wouldn't that be the case for whatever our (yes, I say "our" because I'm part of the collective group) vote ends up being?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I could go with Steve, but main thing I'm afraid of is if people bandwagon on him because of us and he turns to be innocent (plus, the WWs conveniently hide in the bandwagon "oh it was the QT's idea").

I could also go with Ka, to be fair. She's a submarine, but of the suspicious kind.

I don't disagree with either of these points.

Hey, Legate, can we kill Lommy instead?


x'd with Lhuna

[satansaloser2005]

Also, because I forgot to answer the actual question: I'll be here all day and can wait to vote if needed.

[Lalaith]

I can vote when needed.


Why did the wolves think Mac was the Seer?
Why did they think I was the Seer?
Why did they think Pitch was the Seer?
Who in Udun is the Seer?
If it were me I'd probably have revealed by now.

OMG what if the Seer was Urwen and Nogs didn't have the heart to tell us.

[satansaloser2005]

I want to know how on earth Lottie is still alive. I think she's guilty just based on her continued existence.

[Macalaure]

All the different possible scenarios are making my head hurt.

If Boro is a wolf, there are a million possible plans and possible options and I don't even want to start thinking about them.

If Boro is an ordo, as he claims, how did he get the wolves to not kill him with his hints.

If Boro is double-bluffing and he is actually the real seer - then how did he get the wolves not kill him?

Those last two we can examine, though, and if we can deduce that there was no way, then he must be a wolf in turn.

The day he got Lhuna lynched, he surprisingly switched his vote to Eonwe. If Eonwe is a wolf, too, this would've rung every last alarm bell for the pack. Eonwe is either innocent, or the wolves' evidence for Boro not being the seer must've been extremely convincing (or he's one of them). Even if he listed a wolf as a known innocent, as a wolf, I would get pretty doubtful at that point. If we spare Boro, we should spare Eonwe as well.

The only possibility I see for non-wolf-Boro to survive is that he put an innocent as a prime suspect or a wolf as a known-to-him innocent. Considering that a seer still has to suspect people even if they're out of dreamt-of wolves, the former is not 100% safe and the wolves may second-guess it. Listing a wolf as a known innocent though, that might make the wolves go har har, he's bluffing.

This keeps bringing me back to Lommy and Brinn. (What do you think, baddies - want to vote for Brinniel again toDay? Oh, you know you want to )

Whether Boro is the real seer or an ordo, this reasoning goes the same way, except as the real seer he knew what he was doing whereas as an ordo he'd have to do it with a good amount of risky guesswork.

Here's one thing: in a regular game, the seer can't list a wolf as a known innocent. If the seer dies at night without being able to reverse that statement, he leaves the village with a wolf as a quasi-known innocent, which is a very, very terrible idea. In this game, a dead seer can feed the village their dreams via the QT vote, so it's actually doable.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Why did the wolves think Mac was the Seer?

Why did Sally think I was not the seer!

[Macalaure]

Also, Lhuna is a troll after my own heart.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Why did Sally think I was not the seer!

Sally is the Seer after all!

hS

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Why did Sally think I was not the seer!

Maybe because you weren't?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Sally is the Seer after all!

hS

If I were, I'd have dreamt the ranger first, rather than hunting her, which actually might have been helpful given the circumstances. (Love you, Kit!)

....Nog, the seer's clearly not doing anything anyway. Can we convert my hunter picks to dreams?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Point of inquiry: Wouldn't that be the case for whatever our (yes, I say "our" because I'm part of the collective group) vote ends up being?

Not if it's random enough (like yesterday).

[Macalaure]

I like Greenie's thinking. Who again was that person who suspected her for Days?

I find it funny that Brinniel agrees with it without commenting on the fact that she's implicated by it.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Maybe because you weren't?

But I should've been!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

But I should've been!

On that we can agree! <3

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Boro

I ruined their trust and they're probably ****ed off.

You have no idea, my friend, no idea...

Originally Posted by Boro

I did all that I could to try to let the QT know I wasn't the seer.

How could anyone ever read "Understand I still hold the QT in the highest respect." as anything but discouragement.

[Pitchwife]

Sorry for being late to the party, I was a bit busy today doing stuff I should have done over the last two weeks. I'm not averse to voting Steve (cats destroyed my AltGr key, so I can't spell Eonwe properly anymore) or Ka, but right now I'm clueless enough to go with whatever floats the innocent boat.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I could go with Steve, but main thing I'm afraid of is if people bandwagon on him because of us and he turns to be innocent (plus, the WWs conveniently hide in the bandwagon "oh it was the QT's idea").

I could also go with Ka, to be fair. She's a submarine, but of the suspicious kind.

I've been busy with work, and haven't yet caught up on the GT.
Steve looks dodgy to be sure, but somehow feels too easy.
It looked earlier like Ka might be an early bandwagon.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Sorry for being late to the party, I was a bit busy today doing stuff I should have done over the last two weeks. I'm not averse to voting Steve (cats destroyed my AltGr key, so I can't spell Eonwe properly anymore) or Ka, but right now I'm clueless enough to go with whatever floats the innocent boat.

I can't guarantee I can be here until right at DL, but if I have to vote quickly I'll go with the popular proposal.

[Pitchwife]

How likely do we think it is that none of the wolves got Rune's seer hint at the end of yesterDay?

[Macalaure]

We need to consolidate our options a little and narrow it down. I feel we're too all over the place toDay.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

With my luck the QT innocents will now vote for me, because I ruined their trust and they're probably ****ed off. I still will tell them though, no rash decisions, I did all that I could to try to let the QT know I wasn't the seer. I thought it would send a good enough signal if they saw no purpose to what I was proposing and figured I'd be dead by now anyway.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

++Ka

It's fine to go for Eonwe here too. Don't vote Lottie or Greenie.

What's Shasta playing at? I've been seeing more blatant Seer hints from him than from Boro.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

We need to consolidate our options a little and narrow it down. I feel we're too all over the place toDay.

GT looks to be leaning to Ka. Boro, Lommy, Brinn, and Lottie have all given "fake" votes for her, and Shasta made his real.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The day he got Lhuna lynched, he surprisingly switched his vote to Eonwe. If Eonwe is a wolf, too, this would've rung every last alarm bell for the pack. Eonwe is either innocent, or the wolves' evidence for Boro not being the seer must've been extremely convincing (or he's one of them). Even if he listed a wolf as a known innocent, as a wolf, I would get pretty doubtful at that point. If we spare Boro, we should spare Eonwe as well.

Yep, strongly agree with this. Can't see a wolfpack that included Eonwe letting an innocent Boro live past that day - unless Lommy or Brinn was also in the pack.

So, if Boro is innocent (seer or ordo) either Eonwe is also innocent, or Eonwe is a wolf with Brinn or Lommy.

Unfortunately, if Boro and Eonwe are both innocent, we can't necessarily conclude anything from that about Brinn and Lommy. Boro could still have looked ordoish to the pack for the way he went after Eonwe.

But I think we can say if Eonwe is a wolf, one of Boro, Brinn or Lommy is in his pack.

Now, if Boro is a wolf, this whole plot had to be to flush out the real seer, and the nightkills thus far were people who looked seerish in relation to Boro. mentioned it today:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I find it more likely that if anything, your fake-seeriness was an attempt to catch the real seer, which is why the two people who challenged you on it, Lalaith and Pitch, are dead.

That makes some sense. But if so, it also means Pitch and Lalaith didn't do anything obviously unseerish (nothing flamboyantly wrong, especially in their last days alive). Looking back ... (since we have you both here, correct me if I'm wrong or miss something important!)

Day 4:
Pitch defends Lommy pretty strongly, then says:

Originally Posted by Pitch

I actually think both Lommy and Lottie sound genuine to me.

Calls Greenie out on double standard (defending her own safe votes while going after Sally for safe votes).

Lalaith suspects Lommy, but in a more noncommittal/non-dreamed way:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So because I haven't had time to do new analysis toDay I haven't really moved on much from my suspect list of yesterDay. I could add Lommy on there - I admire her chutzpah toDay but I still think her behaviour was suspicious, particularly in her refusal to acknowledge the benefit of having HunterSally as a known innocent.

She mentions putting Shasta on her "watch" list, and wanting to get a handle on Kath, Ka, and Lhuna (before the QT vote).

Says:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I could vote Eonwe, Brinn, or Boro, (same as my suspect list of yesterday)

She reinforces her suspicion of Brinn by saying the Legate kill pointed to her.

If Lalaith looked seerish, she would be a seer who might intend to dream of a wolf Shasta, Ka or Kath but hadn't yet, possibly dreamed of a Brinn wolf, maybe dreamed a Lommy innocent.

Night 5:
Lalaith gets killed.

Day 5:
Pitch says Lommy and Eonwe look innocent because suspected by Lhuna, but later suggests Eonwe and Ka could be packmates. Questions Boro about his seerish/wolf-slippish stuff. Suspects Greenie, but with points for and against/wishy washy way such that wolves could have still thought he was the seer if Greenie was innocent.

Originally Posted by Pitch

I get where the suspicion of Ka comes from, but I wouldn't want to vote her after she just defended me against Shasta, because it would feel mean. ToMorrow is another question, depending on what happens till then.

Pitch responds to the QT vote by immediately asking if Lhuna decided it, which could have looked seerish if Rune was innocent, but wouldn't necessarily look ordoish if he wasn't. This later post however, would only look seerish if Rune was innocent:

Originally Posted by Pitch

I don't think it's such an outlandish reaction when they vote somebody you felt very much was innocent.

Night 6: Pitch is killed.

If Pitch looked like a seer, he would have looked like one who hadn't dreamed of a wolf yet but might be about to close in on a wolf Ka or Shasta, and had dreamed innocents Rune, Lottie, and Lommy.

So in summary:

Innocent Boro (seer or ordo) means he was safely inaccurate, so:

Eonwe is either innocent, or a wolf with Brinn or Lommy.

In any case, the wolves looked for seers elsewhere which implies:

Lommy, Rune, Lottie likely innocent

Ka, Shasta, Brinn, Greenie, Kath potentially evil

Edit: crossed with everyone since my last

[Galadriel55]

I just had an idea why some of you "not-the Seers" might have been killed, completely besides potentially implicating someone's guilt or innocence. And now I really want to know if I'm right.

[satansaloser2005]

Back from my nap/lunch break.

[satansaloser2005]

I like the Steve/Brinn/Lommy pack thought. It seems almost too easy though, so I feel like one of those names is wrong just because of how each of those three is playing.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I like the Steve/Brinn/Lommy pack thought. It seems almost too easy though, so I feel like one of those names is wrong just because of how each of those three is playing.

I've had a bad feeling about Brinn all game.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

In any case, the wolves looked for seers elsewhere which implies:

Lommy, Rune, Lottie likely innocent

Ka, Shasta, Brinn, Greenie, Kath potentially evil

My guts agree with this. I think I'd rather go Ka than Steve right now. (Although if Rune is the Seer and the wolves just haven't noticed, this would point to Shasta and Greenie being innocent.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I've had a bad feeling about Brinn all game.

Same. Options for today, for me at least, are Steve, Brinn, and the Finnish sisters.


x'd with Pitch