20 Questions on ME - Page 146 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nerwen · 11-20-2010, 08:15 PM

Person? –yes.
Mortal? –yes.
Human? –sort-of.
Half-Elven? –no.
1st Age? –no.
3rd Age? –yes.
Nazgûl? –no.
Hobbit? –yes!
Male? –no.
Rosie Cotton –no.
Speaking part? –no (for good reason)!
Melilot Brandybuck? –no.
Esmeralda Brandybuck –no.
Deceased? –yes.
Elanor Gamgee? –no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

And Esmeralda is Rory Brandybuck's daughter-in-law. I don't think she's Merry's mom.

*cough* The two are not mutually exclusive.

Galadriel55 · 11-20-2010, 08:48 PM

I'm running out of ideas! Is it Gollum's beloved grandmother?

Eseralda could be Merry's mom, you are right. We don't know that for sure, though.

Nerwen · 11-20-2010, 09:49 PM

Person? –yes.
Mortal? –yes.
Human? –sort-of.
Half-Elven? –no.
1st Age? –no.
3rd Age? –yes.
Nazgûl? –no.
Hobbit? –yes!
Male? –no.
Rosie Cotton –no.
Speaking part? –no (for good reason)!
Melilot Brandybuck? –no.
Esmeralda Brandybuck? –no.
Deceased? –yes.
Elanor Gamgee? –no.
Gollum's grandmother? –no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Esmeralda could be Merry's mom, you are right. We don't know that for sure, though.

Well, we do, actually. Check the family tree. You'll find her as "Esmeralda Took" (maiden name).

Galadriel55 · 11-21-2010, 08:53 AM

I don't have the family tree in my translation. New fact for me!

It's a deceased female hobbit. Belladona Took, Bilbo's mom?

Pitchwife · 11-21-2010, 12:04 PM

Or if it's not Belladonna, what about Primula Baggins née Brandybuck, Frodo's mom?

Nerwen · 11-21-2010, 04:24 PM

You've got it, Pitch!

Pitchwife · 11-22-2010, 10:35 AM

Thanks, Nerwen!
I've got something; open fire.

Galadriel55 · 11-22-2010, 04:53 PM

person?

Pitchwife · 11-23-2010, 08:16 AM

Person? - Yes.

Galadriel55 · 11-23-2010, 08:49 AM

mortal?

Almesiva Moonshadow · 11-23-2010, 09:22 AM

Mortal from the Third Age???

Nerwen · 11-23-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almesiva Moonshadow

Mortal from the Third Age???

That's two questions at once.

Pitchwife · 11-23-2010, 01:56 PM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - That's actually up to speculation. Most probably not.
...from the Third Age? - No. (Meaning neither mortal, nor from the Third Age.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That's two questions at once.

Hm, I suppose I could technically have taken it as a single question and answered negative if it was, say, an Elf from the Third Age... But I'm not so mean.

Galadriel55 · 11-23-2010, 02:33 PM

halfelven?

Pitchwife · 11-25-2010, 04:21 PM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.*
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.

*(Sorry if my earlier answer to this was misleading. If you take 'mortal' to mean Man and/or Hobbit, including hybrids like Halfelves, it's a clear No. If it just means 'liable to die some natural death', it's by the most common interpretation of this character still a No. Hope this clears things up a bit.)

Galadriel55 · 11-25-2010, 04:27 PM

Mortal could also mean dwarf, can't it?

Anyways, is it an Ent?

Pitchwife · 11-25-2010, 04:45 PM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.
Is it an Ent? - No.

(And yes, in the second, wider sense a Dwarf would be mortal, too, if you're a pedant with words and their meanings like I am - hence my occasional difficulties in answering questions like that with a simple 'yes' or 'no'.

)

Galadriel55 · 11-25-2010, 06:12 PM

I don't blame you one bit, Pitch.
Was that person evil?

Pitchwife · 11-26-2010, 02:06 AM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.
Is it an Ent? - No.
Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes!

Galadriel55 · 11-26-2010, 06:18 AM

Just a shot in the dark - Mouth of Sauron?

Pitchwife · 11-26-2010, 08:12 AM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.
Is it an Ent? - No.
Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes!
Mouth of Sauron? - Nah. He was a) a Black Numenorean, i.e. a Man, and thus mortal, even if artificially long-lived; and b) from the Third Age.

Galadriel55 · 11-26-2010, 02:08 PM

was it by any chance a dragon?

Pitchwife · 11-26-2010, 02:41 PM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.
Is it an Ent? - No.
Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes!
Mouth of Sauron? - No.
Was it by any chance a dragon? - No.

Galadriel55 · 11-26-2010, 02:55 PM

I'm probably overcomplicating things and just going in circles around the answer, and then someone else will coe and casually announce it. That happens to me all the time!

Just to clarify: When you say that s/he is most likely immortal, but it is questionable, do you mean that s/he's not an ainu or elf? Because they're immortal for sure, aren't they?

Pitchwife · 11-26-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Just to clarify: When you say that s/he is most likely immortal, but it is questionable, do you mean that s/he's not an ainu or elf? Because they're immortal for sure, aren't they?

*sigh*
Remember I'm supposed to answer only with Yes or No, and one question at a time? If only I'd stuck to that above...
What I meant is exactly what I said. Illustration: Suppose the person I was thinking of were Tom Bombadil, and you had asked me whether it's an Ainu, what would you have expected me to answer?

Tuor in Gondolin · 11-26-2010, 05:08 PM

Female?

Pitchwife · 11-26-2010, 05:38 PM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.
Is it an Ent? - No.
Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes!
Mouth of Sauron? - No.
Was it by any chance a dragon? - No.
Female? - Yes!

Nerwen · 11-26-2010, 06:53 PM

Ungoliant?

Pitchwife · 11-27-2010, 05:09 PM

Person? - Yes.
Mortal? - No.
...from the Third Age? - No.
Halfelven? - No.
Is it an Ent? - No.
Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes!
Mouth of Sauron? - No.
Was it by any chance a dragon? - No.
Female? - Yes!
Ungoliant? - Sorry, no. (But I see you got my meaning!

)

Nerwen · 11-28-2010, 09:14 PM

Thuringwethil?

Pitchwife · 11-29-2010, 03:49 AM

You've got it, Nerwen - Thuringwethil it is! Take over, please.

(Explanation for Galadriel55 about the mortality question: Most sources I've consulted seem to assume Thuringwethil was some sort of corrupted Maia, and as such, she would of course be immortal; but Tolkien himself never really tells us what kind of being she was, only that she acted as Sauron's messenger and took the form of a vampire bat, so it's at least conceivable she was some other creature - maybe a real bat corrupted and enhanced by sorcery, or something like Beorn's dark cousin six millennia removed

. Sorry for the confusion!)

Galadriel55 · 11-29-2010, 06:16 AM

Nerwen, you've got here just before I could! I thought of Thuringwethil yesterday, but I didn't have access to the computer until now. Ah well.
Person?

Nerwen · 11-29-2010, 06:45 AM

Yes.

Tuor in Gondolin · 11-29-2010, 09:19 AM

Evil?

Galadriel55 · 11-29-2010, 04:14 PM

lived in 1st age?

Nerwen · 11-29-2010, 07:19 PM

Evil? –No.
First Age? –No.

Galadriel55 · 11-29-2010, 07:28 PM

mortal?

Nerwen · 11-29-2010, 08:01 PM

Yes.

Tuor in Gondolin · 11-29-2010, 08:22 PM

Alive during the Second Age?

Nerwen · 11-29-2010, 08:47 PM

No.

11-20-2010, 08:48 PM	#5802
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	I'm running out of ideas! Is it Gollum's beloved grandmother? Eseralda could be Merry's mom, you are right. We don't know that for sure, though. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-21-2010, 08:53 AM	#5804
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	I don't have the family tree in my translation. New fact for me! It's a deceased female hobbit. Belladona Took, Bilbo's mom? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-21-2010, 12:04 PM	#5805
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Or if it's not Belladonna, what about Primula Baggins née Brandybuck, Frodo's mom? __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-21-2010, 04:24 PM	#5806
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	You've got it, Pitch! __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-22-2010, 10:35 AM	#5807
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Thanks, Nerwen! I've got something; open fire. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-22-2010, 04:53 PM	#5808
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	person? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-23-2010, 08:16 AM	#5809
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-23-2010, 08:49 AM	#5810
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	mortal? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-23-2010, 09:22 AM	#5811
Almesiva Moonshadow Animated Skeleton Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Serbia Posts: 34	Mortal from the Third Age??? __________________ "...Aim for the moon,if you miss,you may hit a star..." -W.Clement Stone-

11-23-2010, 02:33 PM	#5814
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	here I go again... halfelven? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-25-2010, 04:21 PM	#5815
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No.* ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. (Sorry if my earlier answer to this was misleading. If you take 'mortal' to mean Man and/or Hobbit, including hybrids like Halfelves, it's a clear No. If it just means 'liable to die some natural death', it's by the most common interpretation of this character still a No. Hope this clears things up a bit.) __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI*

11-25-2010, 04:27 PM	#5816
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	Mortal could also mean dwarf, can't it? Anyways, is it an Ent? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-25-2010, 04:45 PM	#5817
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No. ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. Is it an Ent? - No. (And yes, in the second, wider sense a Dwarf would be mortal, too, if you're a pedant with words and their meanings like I am - hence my occasional difficulties in answering questions like that with a simple 'yes' or 'no'.) __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-25-2010, 06:12 PM	#5818
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	I don't blame you one bit, Pitch. Was that person evil? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-26-2010, 02:06 AM	#5819
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No. ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. Is it an Ent? - No. Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes! __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-26-2010, 06:18 AM	#5820
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	Just a shot in the dark - Mouth of Sauron? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-26-2010, 08:12 AM	#5821
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No. ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. Is it an Ent? - No. Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes! Mouth of Sauron? - Nah. He was a) a Black Numenorean, i.e. a Man, and thus mortal, even if artificially long-lived; and b) from the Third Age. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-26-2010, 02:08 PM	#5822
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	was it by any chance a dragon? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-26-2010, 02:41 PM	#5823
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No. ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. Is it an Ent? - No. Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes! Mouth of Sauron? - No. Was it by any chance a dragon? - No. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-26-2010, 02:55 PM	#5824
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	I'm probably overcomplicating things and just going in circles around the answer, and then someone else will coe and casually announce it. That happens to me all the time! Just to clarify: When you say that s/he is most likely immortal, but it is questionable, do you mean that s/he's not an ainu or elf? Because they're immortal for sure, aren't they? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-26-2010, 05:08 PM	#5826
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Female? __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

11-26-2010, 05:38 PM	#5827
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No. ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. Is it an Ent? - No. Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes! Mouth of Sauron? - No. Was it by any chance a dragon? - No. Female? - Yes! __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-26-2010, 06:53 PM	#5828
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Ungoliant? __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-27-2010, 05:09 PM	#5829
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Person? - Yes. Mortal? - No. ...from the Third Age? - No. Halfelven? - No. Is it an Ent? - No. Was that person evil? - Unambiguously yes! Mouth of Sauron? - No. Was it by any chance a dragon? - No. Female? - Yes! Ungoliant? - Sorry, no. (But I see you got my meaning!) __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-28-2010, 09:14 PM	#5830
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Thuringwethil? __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-29-2010, 03:49 AM	#5831
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	You've got it, Nerwen - Thuringwethil it is! Take over, please. (Explanation for Galadriel55 about the mortality question: Most sources I've consulted seem to assume Thuringwethil was some sort of corrupted Maia, and as such, she would of course be immortal; but Tolkien himself never really tells us what kind of being she was, only that she acted as Sauron's messenger and took the form of a vampire bat, so it's at least conceivable she was some other creature - maybe a real bat corrupted and enhanced by sorcery, or something like Beorn's dark cousin six millennia removed. Sorry for the confusion!) __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

11-29-2010, 06:16 AM	#5832
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	Nerwen, you've got here just before I could! I thought of Thuringwethil yesterday, but I didn't have access to the computer until now. Ah well. Person? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-29-2010, 06:45 AM	#5833
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Yes. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-29-2010, 09:19 AM	#5834
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Evil? __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

11-29-2010, 04:14 PM	#5835
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	lived in 1st age? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera Last edited by Galadriel55; 11-29-2010 at 04:32 PM.

11-29-2010, 07:19 PM	#5836
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Evil? –No. First Age? –No. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-29-2010, 07:28 PM	#5837
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,401	mortal? __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

11-29-2010, 08:01 PM	#5838
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Yes. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-29-2010, 08:22 PM	#5839
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Alive during the Second Age? __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

11-29-2010, 08:47 PM	#5840
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	No. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.