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[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

This one is a little more back to the basics, but I don't think the topic has been done before.



1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
2. Jaw cracker darkened flower.
3. Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

2. AGATHURUSH? A bit of a tongue-twister, and it's the 'shadowy river.' (At least, it is in its Sindarin form, Gwathlo).

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

2. AGATHURUSH? A bit of a tongue-twister, and it's the 'shadowy river.' (At least, it is in its Sindarin form, Gwathlo).

Right thinking, wrong place.

[Pervinca Took]

The Enchanted River in Mirkwood? Gulduin?

[Pervinca Took]

I can't help thinking the kindled undergarments means 'pants on fire' and is an allusion to Gollum's habit of telling porkies.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I can't help thinking the kindled undergarments means 'pants on fire' and is an allusion to Gollum's habit of telling porkies.

Lol! Unfortunately the fire part doesn't relate to the garment.

The stream is not Gulduin.

[Pervinca Took]

I think Faramir warns against drinking from any stream running out of Imlad Morgul, but I don't think any of the streams are named.

Ditto the 'swift dark stream' that the barrels go down, from the Elvenking's hall to Lake Town.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pervinca

I think Faramir warns against drinking from any stream running out of Imlad Morgul, but I don't think any of the streams are named.

The main stream is the Morgulduin (as you'd expect ). I don't know know about that being a "jaw-cracker", though.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The main stream is the Morgulduin (as you'd expect ). I don't know know about that being a "jaw-cracker", though.

Well, think about what has neen called a jaw cracker. It's not quite that, but near - and a jaw cracker itself.

[Huinesoron]

I think it's Dwarvish as a whole that's a jaw-cracker (per Sam)... aha! Darkened is DIM, and a flow-er is a RILL, giving DIMRILL DALE in the Common Speech, or AZANULBIZAR if you want the full gargling-with-gravel effect.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I think it's Dwarvish as a whole that's a jaw-cracker (per Sam)... aha! Darkened is DIM, and a flow-er is a RILL, giving DIMRILL DALE in the Common Speech, or AZANULBIZAR if you want the full gargling-with-gravel effect.

hS

Indeed so!



1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
3. Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

[Galadriel55]

For #5, Pervinca had the right idea, just the wrong trinket. Try looking for another word for that.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

For #5, Pervinca had the right idea, just the wrong trinket. Try looking for another word for that.

Well, Mathom springs to mind, but I can't find a river of any size with two Ms in the name.

#4. ATHELAS is nearly A + alas! + the. AFTERLITHE even has the articles in their correct places, though the best I can do with 'fterli' is 'filter'. Perhaps you've recently had a filtration accident which made you weep in frustration?

Or, if I can branch out from English for a minute... THEODEN is the + o! + den, the German masculine accusative definite article. This would make Theoden himself 'without direction', because... his chief counsellor was actively working against him, I guess?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I have already suggested Theoden, with the same reasoning.

Hibernia is the Latin for Irish .. but will this help us at all?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I have already suggested Theoden, with the same reasoning.

Hibernia is the Latin for Irish .. but will this help us at all?

Oops! Sorry.

I wonder whether it's 'drops Latin numerals from 'Gollum' and replaces with Irish numbers'... GTranslate says 50 (L) is 'caoga', while 1000 (M) is 'mile'. I... don't think that gets us anywhere.

... wait. If 'on fire' is a straight clue, then 'undergarment' could be bra. BRA + GOLL is most of BRAGOLLACH, which... I guess ends with what could be an Irish exclamation? And maybe 'um' is a common Latin term for 'by golly, everything has gone pear-shaped'? At least there's fire in it.

hS

[Urwen]

I think it means that it drops L and adds an I.....


Which alludes to Gorlim......

[Pervinca Took]

If you're right, theme might be (sites of) famous battles.

[Galadriel55]

A few correct guesses! If it's not here, it's not correct.


THEME: BATTLES
1. A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

Latin turned out to be more confusing than I thought. What I hadum in mindum is that everuthingium in Latinum seems to endum with um. Drop the Latin ending for an Irish one.

With the theme correctly guessed, you can hack away at the rest.

[Pervinca Took]

5. I think this might be LHAMMOTH, because it contains 'mathom,' which hS suggested.

Point ... not sure ... LH for left hand?

[Pervinca Took]

1. FIVE ARMIES? Number, arms, I .. possible reference to an army mess (dining hall)?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

1. FIVE ARMIES? Number, arms, I .. possible reference to an army mess (dining hall)?

Five Armies correct: five + arms + e + i.

Mathom is not the trinket. Ring was closer.


THEME: BATTLES
FIVE ARMIES: A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
4. Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
5. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.

[Urwen]

Password: Fight?

[Pervinca Took]

Is 4 just Unnumbered Tears for the 'cry,' or Nirnaeth Arnoediad?

[Pervinca Took]

5. Cabed-En-Aras ... bead + NE ... can't account for the C, though.

Didn't Turin fight Glaurung there, though?

[Galadriel55]

THEME: BATTLES
FIVE ARMIES: A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
NIRNAETH: Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
T. Point trinket haphazardly to stream.


For the last one - rings were still semantically closest trinkets to the one you need.

[Urwen]

5. Tumhalad?

[Pervinca Took]

There's the Battle of Bywater ... no trinket, but it's a stream.

[Galadriel55]

Neither one.

[Urwen]

Tarn Aeluin?


If this isn't it either, then you are intentionally misleading us, cos you put 'T' as the beginning of the final clue....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Tarn Aeluin?


If this isn't it either, then you are intentionally misleading us, cos you put 'T' as the beginning of the final clue....

No, I put a T because it's the letter in the password. I never said it was the beginning - you know how these things work! Either all letters are first, or all are random.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

No, I put a T because it's the letter in the password. I never said it was the beginning - you know how these things work! Either all letters are first, or all are random.

If it isn't in the beginning, then you should have indicated it isn't, by putting a dot both in front of it and behind it.


And almost all battles have a letter 'T' in them somewhere....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If it isn't in the beginning, then you should have indicated it isn't, by putting a dot both in front of it and behind it.


And almost all battles have a letter 'T' in them somewhere....

It may be in the beginning, or it may not.

It's not from the word "battle", but rather the name/place of the battle, like the rest of them. It's a major battle for its time, but we don't hear much about it because it's doesn't take place during the main text timeline.

[Urwen]

All the names/places that contain 'T' within them



Utumno
Eglarest
Sarn Athrad
Thousand Caves
Dagor-nuin Gilliath
Fall of Nargothrond
First Battle of Beleriand
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath
Fall of Minas Ithil
Fall of Mount Gundabad


....and even more than that.


So, you see, it's a lot.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

All the names/places that contain 'T' within them



Utumno
Eglarest
Sarn Athrad
Thousand Caves
Dagor-nuin Gilliath
Fall of Nargothrond
First Battle of Beleriand
Third Kinslaying
War of Wrath
Fall of Minas Ithil
Fall of Mount Gundabad


....and even more than that.


So, you see, it's a lot.

Well, that's why you have an entire clue, not just a letter.

For the record though, none of the above. And some of those aren't battles - like there's no "Battle of Thousand Caves", so ot can't be the answer.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Tharbad

Although I can't figure out the jumbled trinket bit, from there we have ad (to), naming a battle fought on a stream with a T in it

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Tharbad

Although I can't figure out the jumbled trinket bit, from there we have ad (to), naming a battle fought on a stream with a T in it

No. The trinket and the point are the only elements of this word.

[Pervinca Took]

P.S. I liked NIRNAETH ... THE + IN + A and a direction within and without ... N on outside, R inside?

How were I and E accounted for in FIVE ARMIES, though?

Ah ... unless only V was the five and that gave us more letters to use up?

[Pervinca Took]

Now ... point could be tip/period (full stop) /even a point of an argument/purpose, rather than a compass point.

Trinket could be toy.

Trouble is, the nearest thing to a ring is a bangle or bracelet ... tried both. And chain.

I tried to get from bangle to Aglareb ... is that even a place, though?

I have the feeling it's one of the Third or Second Age ones, because everything is part of the story/timeline in the First Age ... Fords of Isen or Gladden Fields would be favourite if they had a T, or Last Alliance if it had a trinket.

(Actually, we need it to be a river that was fought over ... Gladden means yellow iris, I think, so no stream element in that or Last Alliance).

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

P.S. I liked NIRNAETH ... THE + IN + A and a direction within and without ... N on outside, R inside?

IN + THE + AN + R (direction), without direction ie jumbled. Basically what you have with only a slight difference.

Originally Posted by Pervinca

How were I and E accounted for in FIVE ARMIES, though?

Ah ... unless only V was the five and that gave us more letters to use up?

No, they come from "one" and "note". Five = number, arms = weapons.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Trouble is, the nearest thing to a ring is a bangle or bracelet ... tried both. And chain.

You listed the right trinket here. Check them again. And you're entirely correct that it's not in the First Age.

[Urwen]

Ah, I see it now, thanks to Pervinca.


The trinket is BRACELET. Rearrange it and add 'N', and you get CELEBRANT.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Ah, I see it now, thanks to Pervinca.


The trinket is BRACELET. Rearrange it and add 'N', and you get CELEBRANT.

Hurray for group effort!


THEME: BATTLES
FIVE ARMIES: A rough bunch note a number of weapons and one, a mess.
AZANULBIZAR: Jaw cracker darkened flower.
BRAGOLLACH: Smeagol drops Latin for Irish, after undergarment on fire.
NIRNAETH: Cry inside two articles, with (and without) direction.
CELEBRANT: Point trinket haphazardly to stream.


Over to Urwen!