T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Aganzir]

Hello I just came home, have a horrible headache & need to leave in a few hours because of going to theatre with my Swedish group (ewrgh). I also have two papers to write for tomorrow which means I'm not going to be too loud today.

Off to read yesterday's posts.

Originally Posted by Brinn

This may be a stupid question, but were you talking about Lommy or Greenie here? I want to say the latter, but I'm not actually sure..

Lommy. Greenie was you and Lommy was she.

1..2..3.. ... ..9..10.
*breaths deep*

Originally Posted by Lommy

I still think her style is a curious mixture of her relaxed, bantery and nit-picky ordo-style and her careful, detached wolf-style - exactly what I'd expect from her after a long pause from being a wolf.

My playing style changes. Depending on my mood. Depending on how tired, busy, whatever, I am in real life. I am annoyed that you give the impression, accidentally or not, it doesn't matter, that's how you come across, of being able to read me perfectly just because we know each other in RL. I am annoyed of you comparing me to previous games and telling what I would do as a wolf or ordo or gifted or whatever.
And I admit I probably wouldn't be so annoyed if it was someone else but you.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Also, she tends to get annoyed at me but she feels jumpier than normally.

What's normally? Last time we played you said exactly the same. And the time before... And...

Originally Posted by Lommy

And if you want me to, I can admit this vote is also partly because I currently feel we two just can't play ww together, at least not this way.

Me too. Maybe it was better if we simply concentrated on other people instead of each other as long as possible. I can't remember when we last did not have a quarrel.

And I'm not going to go through your posts, at least for now. I don't find it necessary. Because I simply can't believe you would go after me with such reasons if you were a wolf.

Okay onto other things.

Originally Posted by Nog

She's no gifted because that's a bit too daring for a gifted to do.

Well I disagree. If the main goal for a gifted is to survive, then it might be daring. But if a gifted wants to have some fun, see if xe is caught, then it'd be alright. I would find that a funny thing to do as a gifted.

I don't know why but Mira has started to bother me a little. I might want to read through her posts when I have time.
And now I read Lari's summary and it's the same with her.
I am also getting a bad feeling about Rune. He annoys me & doesn't make sense. Okay, it might be because he was drunk yesterday but still.

To be honest I have no idea why you ended up lynching Durelin. Mira's vote (or the reasoning for it) seems the most suspicious to me but I need to read her posts before forming a proper opinion.

Originally Posted by Brinn

the wraiths thought he might be Frodo and didn't want to risk losing their Ringbearer through a lynching.

Rather they wouldn't have wanted him to reveal and be either a known innocent or a missed kill at night & sure lynch the following day, had he been the RB. However what makes you think they thought he was Frodo? Personally I didn't see anything that would have indicated it, apart from him commenting on a post by only saying Precious! on day one.

I think Lommy's idea of the wraiths thinking Nog was the real ranger is a good one.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Perhaps you were doing that (supporting the idea that Frodo could reveal) in order for him to reveal himself, or give hints, so that you may target him.

But I never supported xyr revealing! Well yes it would make things easier but it would also be an unfair thing to ask.
Besides what would a wolf gain from Frodo revealing? A lot headache.

Originally Posted by Legate

Then, when others were suggesting Frodo not to do that, you have backed away a bit, so as not to be too suspicious if it became the general opinion that Frodo trying to give hints may be dangerous for the village.

How would disagreeing be suspicious?

Sorry I'm not trying to be difficult, I just have no idea what you're talking about.

[Nerwen]

I spent too long on this, and I'm not sure it's all that useful. But here it is anyway:

Note: only relevant sections are quoted/cited.

Part One: La-la-la-I'm-Not-Listening

#324.Nogrod makes a case on Durelin based on her Ranger-like IC posting at start of Day One.

#325.

Originally Posted by Rikae

6) It was an IC post. And, lo and behold, Durelin's character is:
"Durelin - Big person dark, mysterious, hooded and cloaked figure".

A joke, no more significant than in that long-ago game when someone chose "weaver" as his occupation. That's how I took it, that's how I'm pretty sure everybody took it (including the wraiths), and that's how I suspect Dury expected it to be taken.

#329, #332, #347. Greenie, Lommy and Mac all point out that Nogrod's case doesn't make sense.

#348. Nogrod continues to find Durelin evil; has missed the point about her posting IC.

#363. Durelin posts IC.

#366.Durelin lists people who “bother" her (Brinn, me, Rikae, Nogrod and Fea) for various reasons.

#367. Fea complains about Durelin's IC posting.

#368. More IC posting from Durelin. This is perverse of her and probably helped get her killed. Note, however, that she only posted a few sentences.

#371.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I'm very tempted to vote Dury as I don't know what she's playing at. I feel like the Ranger wouldn't make a point of making herself wraith-bait.

#372. Mirandir agrees with Fea.

#373. Lari puts forward the theory that Kitanna would have made Durelin's hooded and cloaked character a wraith rather than a ranger.

#374. Nogrod agree with Fea that Dury and Rikae are not behaving like innocents.

#375.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Fea, you seem off to me. You go back and forth between a knowing hush-hush to "we should talk about all the roles", and you're nearly as jumpy as Nogrod when it comes to conspiracy theories. Overall you're being rather boring, especially for you.

#377.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

It's occurred to me that I want to sacrifice a fellow wolf every time I play an evil role. But there never seems to be any support from my colleagues...

++Durelin

Support my vote if you want.

If Durelin had turned out to be a wolf... er, wraith, I'd have called that the worst slip ever. As it is, I don't know what she meant.

#378.Lari speculates that Durelin could be Evil Frodo, trying to get the wraiths to kill him at Night.

#379.

Originally Posted by Durelin

If you think I'm a suicidal baddy (who could have easily "flown under the radar" as many put it), so be it. You all deserved more of my foolishness after being so foolish yourselves, thinking my character-role was anything else.

#382.Nogrod says he is a bit reluctant to lynch Durelin, but might still do it. He asks if there are enough people to lynch Fea.

Part Two: The Fea Fan-Club to the Rescue!

And this is where it gets even weirder. Rune, Lari and possibly Mira act as though they have to save Fea from the lynch mob, even though she has no votes, and I think Nog's was the first mention of lynching her.

#384.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Stop this nonsense!

Fea is just like an independent candidate, too good to be voted for!

#387.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So where did this "lynch Fea" thing come into play? Not that I'm defending her, it just seems to be, well, really spontanious and not right. And I can't spell.

#392. Durelin discusses Day One votes. Doesn't like Brinniel's, Nerwen's, A Little Green's, Sally's, or Fea's.

#393.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

I love it when we decide to randomly lynch Fea! *throws a party*

#394. Brinn comments that she has been suspecting Fea all day.

#395.(replying to Durelin)

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

You're talking yesterday, obviously, since tonight my goal was actually to get you killed...

#396. Beregond comments that he "took the ranger comment as nothing but IC".

#397.Rune says he feels like lynching Agan or Durelin.

#398.(replying to Mirandir's comment at #393).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

WE might do it for a reason as well...

#400.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Did I mention that I really do not want Fea to die. . . . ?

#402.Lari votes Durelin: "I know its IC voting, but part of me thinks that putting her as a wolf would have been genius."

#403.Fea says Durelin should be posting content, not just in character narration.

#405.Rune votes Durelin (no reason given– apparently to save Fea).

#406. Mirandir votes Durelin: "Posting IC 40 minutes before deadline seems like a strange move, and it makes me very suspicious."

#407. Brinn votes Fea.

#409. Mac votes Durelin (no reason given).

#410.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I have no really good explanation for voting Durlein other than she seem slightly off. . .and that I really want to keep fea in the game.

#412. Durelin votes Mac.

#413. Brinniel say she does not like "this Durelin bandwagon".

#415. Nogrod votes Durelin.

Comments: Mac's vote is probably self defence, as I think he had two or three votes himself at that point. The reasons for the other votes boil down to: "we must save Fea!" and "Durelin's pretending to be the Ranger! Get her!"

Nogrod (known innocent) started the case on Dury, Fea seized on it, and Lari and Mira followed Fea, and then Rune joined in when the idea of lynching Fea came up.

Early in the piece, everyone was told that Durelin was simply playing a character she had described before the roles were given out. They... well, basically, they just didn't care. (Lari's theory involved a plot by Kitanna.)

Durelin did contribute to her downfall a bit by going on with the IC posting... but there were actually only a couple of posts like that, and she made other comments.

Conclusion: Fea is probably evil, and seems to have led the lynch-mob, but is more likely Ferny than a wraith. (Although she might be a wraith pretending to be Ferny, in the hope that the Seer won't dream her, or we won't bother lynching her, or something.)

I still can't tell whether Lari and Mira are acting more like manipulated newbies or like newbie wolves. And I have no idea what Rune was thinking of, except that he did mention he was drunk.

So... yeah. That was weird.

EDIT: fixed quotes.
EDIT2: paraphrased for easier reading. X'd with lots of people.
EDIT3:fixed bolding.

[Lariren Shadow]

All right, I get it, my vote seems fishy(and no, I'm really not a Pisces, no where close).

However, I pretty much voted for the same person two days in a row. And the only reason was I still didn't have much to go on from Day 2. I thought in my mind that it would have been interesting to make the person who's character is like the ranger to be a wolf/wraith. Hence my voting.

As for the rest: are we sure that Nog's death wasn't in some way a way to implicate Fea? Can we really rule out a possible innocent Fea and really good wolves/wraiths? It would be kind of smart of them too. They wouldn't get blamed for killing off a very dangerous innocent, the village would just lynch her and be done with it.

This is not saying that we shouldn't look at her. Clearly that would be stupid but this is a possiblity no one mentioned. Last game she was lynched the same Day and was a wolf. But she was also more open about her wolfyness.

As for Mira, it is her first game. But it's also Day 3 and she is clearly fair game.

As for the comments between Lommy and Agan, while obviously it's between you two and I shouldn't read more into than a possible friend's spat(I mean, I could also say the same things about Mira and Fea, considering I know them in real life too) but there whole thing would be a good cover up if they were both wolves/wraiths. Keep up the pretense that they are not working together and such. I would have to look through their posts again, but its a good way to throw us all off their trail.

[Macalaure]

First I think I should explain my commentless vote yesterDay. At some point yesterDay I was no longer able to think and make cases against who I would prefer to lynch. I just kept on reading along and see what I would have to do to survive. Then, about 15 minutes before the deadline, the posts were coming so quick that I was not able to catch up anymore and barely remembered in the last minute that I still had to vote. I did not suspect Durelin, but I also didn't think that she was gifted, so she was the logical choice.

Now, with a wake mind, what the ?? was that yesterDay?

--The madness seems to have started just after my last real post, when Durelin reappeared and acted weirdly.
--Fea jumps on her for IC posting, which is fair, but what she makes out of that later is unreasonable. #371 does not strike me as something an innocent would have posted. It looks as if she realised that, with all the talk about Durelin that Nogrod initiated, Durelin would make a good bandwaggon, if set up properly.
--Mirandir goes with Fea immediately. Lariren's following list has Durelin as neutral. Nogrod gives some points, Rune a list of unrelated comments.
--Fea votes Durelin.
--Lariren picks up on Nogrod's comments. Brinn talks about her suspicions, crossing with the approaching Durelin-waggon. Nogrod is reluctant to vote Durelin and considers Fea.
--Rune defends her immediately - and fiercely, considering that only one person mentions the idea. Menel doesn't know what's going on and Rikae rants a little bit. Lariren defends Fea right away, too. The way #387 is phrased is suspicious ("not that I'm defending her"). After some points of Durelin, Mirandir jokes about lynching Fea randomly, which of course is a defense in disguise. Brinn states that she was suspicious of Fea before already. Beregond makes a long list a few minutes before deadline (make those earlier: nobody will be able to read them at this point).
--Rune states he'd like to lynch Aganzir or Durelin. Nogrod restates that he'd have reasons to lynch Fea and Rune defends her again.
--Lariren votes Durelin, and this vote really looks like either an ordo that lets herself be way to much influenced by a recently started bandwaggon, or a baddie following another baddies lead.
--Nogrod is confused and Rune votes Durelin, as does Mirandir. Rune's vote is commentless, but goes in line with previous comments. Mirandir's vote looks like Lari's.
--Brinn votes Fea and complains. I vote Durelin.
--Rune chips in a comment about Durelin, his only on why she is suspicious to him, and it looks as bad as Mirandir's and Lari's.
--Durelin votes me and Brinn complains some more, a bit late, if you ask me.
--Nogrod votes past the deadline and Beregond shows sense.
--Rune adds more nonsense about saving Fea and Brinn criticises him duly.

And half of this happened in 10 minutes....

Fea looks a bit like an evil mastermind. She puts the bandwaggon on its rails and does not hesitate about it one second, despite very questionable grounds.
Mirandir and Lari - synchronised werewolfing? They both make a list shortly before things get rolling, and neither suspects Durelin. They both defend Fea, they both change their minds on Durelin, they both make a very similar vote post. It is inconceivable that this was planned, so not both of them are wraiths. A wraith-cobbler combo is possible. Newbieness exonerates Mirandir a little, but Lari gets no such bonus anymore.
Rune's desire to save Fea is out of proportion. Mirandir and Lari are her RL friends, so it's more understandable. I thought that maybe Rune was the seer and dreamt of Fea, but no way would a seer risk himself when his innocent dream is not challenged seriously, which Fea wasn't. Also, if he wanted to save Fea, why go after Durelin? Even if he knew about Fea's innocence, he must've realised that the reasons against Durelin were ridiculous. I remember that he stated something about "experienced players should know better". He is more than experienced enough to know that you lynch the people who act suspicious, not the people who act weird. Stupid lynches like that happen way to often. I suspect that Rune and Fea are companions.
Rikae and especially Brinn take the role of the voice of reason. I believe they are innocent. They could be smart wraiths, but for now, I don't think so.

Alright, and now I have some free memory for other people's comments today, as well as the earlier happenings yesterday, and why in Arda the wraiths chose Nogrod.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Actually, now that you mention it, I must say that suggestion of Brinn's was a bit weird. It does not make much sense - I wonder if the explanation is that Brinn was too tired when she was posting or that she's a baddie trying to mislead us?

Well yes, I was tired...after all it was 4am. But I don't think my suggestion was that weird. I agree your ranger suggestion is better though. But what makes you so sure the wraiths didn't think he was Frodo?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

However what makes you think they thought he was Frodo? Personally I didn't see anything that would have indicated it, apart from him commenting on a post by only saying Precious! on day one.

I didn't see anything in particular that would indicate it either, but it's possible the wraiths did. For one thing, I'm not sure there's even a specific way on how Frodo would act; I think it would partly depend on whether Frodo would rather be turned or lynched.

EDIT: X-ed with Lari and Mac

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What was I thinking of?

I was thinking that Fea is fun to have in the game and that I did not suspect her, so I wanted to vote for Mac or Agan and later Agan or Durelin. Granted. . .Fea had not recived any votes, but it was a cause that seemed to gain support and resembled what had happened on day 1.
So I decided to cast my vote for Durelin in order to secure Fea's further participation in the game. . .

Obviously the ending was rather hectic and far from desirable, but I play for the fun of the game and to win. . . Obviously I would not have voted for Durelin if I had thought Fea to be evil.

I might have mis-interpritated the situation and overreacted, but that is what happens.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I still can't tell whether Lari and Mira are acting more like manipulated newbies or like newbie wolves.

Well, I was a newbie wolf last game(and this is clearly not going to help my case) but I played it differently.

Part of my suspicion was also that she was still in character posting when pretty much everyone else had stopped.

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder).

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Lariren's following list has Durelin as neutral.

Did I? I didn't really mean for it to be neutral sounding. I pretty much didn't have that many others to go on. Hence my vote.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Erm... I'm sure Ms. Fearny has an excuse and a great explanation ready for why she is trustworthy. I have an idea of what that might be. I don't buy it.

1) I certainly wasn't going to let myself get lynched in a last minute bandwagon-

2) I really didn't want Mac lynched in a last minute bandwagon (though I had no evidence to back that desire up)-

3) It was fifteen minutes before deadline on Day 2 and Dury was still posting in character with no usefull information even hidden in those short posts-

4) After I decided she was a good person to vote for (for being all but invisible, for not making OOC contributions, for doing what looked like trying to lead the village by playing on her [chosen] role, but without supporting anything) she called me boring, and at 1am, it seemed like a great idea to joke about that after succeeding in putting her neck in the noose instead of mine.

I only regret that she wasn't actually evil.

My bad.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Also, what was so suspicious about her IC-posts?

She hadn't made any valuable other ones. When you're not sure who to vote for, who do you look at? The people who are obviously trying to confuse the village.

*apologizes to self for making a statement that appears to apply to me*

Mostly I'm just shocked that

1) anybody voted Dury with me (I was resigned to Mac's death), and
2) that Rune really wanted me to stay alive. Unless he's the seer, which I really hadn't previously suspected. I'm not even sure I suspect it now, for all that he made such a pleasant defense of me.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Any chances you're secretly Pisces by the horoscope, ladies?

No, ma'am. Definitely Leo.

Originally Posted by Interwebs

Leos that receive insufficient attention can grow depressed and sullen. Leos also sulk in response to minor slights, particularly blows to their pride, but they tend to recover quickly. Quick to anger and quick to forgive, most Leos wear their hearts on their sleeves. While they might exaggerate, they are not inclined to lie.

They love to be the center of attention.

They have the guts to put themselves forward and don’t mind the whole world looking at them. In fact, they prefer it. They crave a little danger, which makes them natural risk-takers, sometimes excessively so.

Leos are usually quite soft-hearted and have a particular fondness for children and animals.

*loves kittens*

Originally Posted by Lommy

Maybe just because she's a newbie.

Day 1's over. No more newbie grace period. She's smart. I don't trust her. Nobody else should.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Fea puzzles me. Her post complaining about the fake gifteds looks very innocent, but many other posts of hers look rather sinister.

*likes attention*
*isn't good at being ordo*

Originally Posted by Rikae

Then again, a wraith Fea could consider herself seer-dreamt anyway and therefore behave suicidally.

Very perceptive, since I do always consider myself seer-dreamt, wolf or ordo. It seems like a fair assumption. Just- I'm ordo this time around.

Originally Posted by Legate

This is so obvious jumping on a bandwagon that one can hardly think otherwise of Fea than "Ferny!".

Or clueless ordo with no better ideas. Honestly? I was going to vote Nog last night for the reason that his name sort of sounds like Giotto.

The people I find suspicious are people I always find suspicious. I don't know any more how to separate my respect for what people have done as bad guys from my belief that they are currently bad guys. The people I don't find suspicious, I simply don't find suspicious.

When you've got no inside knowledge of roles (like Frodo, the Wraiths), you kind of have to wing it. And when you're half convinced that your ability to figure out your own suspicions is shot? Go with somebody who's dangerous no matter what their role is.

*apologizes to self for what seems like another incriminating statement*

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I still can't tell whether Lari and Mira are acting more like manipulated newbies or like newbie wolves.

I lean more toward manipulated newbies, for all that I didn't really intend for them to get manipulated. I'm still a bit in shock that a bandwagon happened when I thought I was pretty clearly joking about the "I'm lynching you because you called me boring" thing. I voted Durelin because of the perversity of her continuing to post IC even after the village requested posts where she actually told us what she thought (apart from "Silly village.").

Originally Posted by Lari

Last game she was lynched the same Day and was a wolf. But she was also more open about her wolfyness.

At risk of incriminating my innocent self even more- Lari, this isn't the best logic: my wolf style changes depending on who my cohorts are. If, for instance, I'm a baddy and I've got a newbie on my team, I'll take the lead and set xer up for a clean sweep once I die (because I nearly always die). If I'm a baddy and I've got a player like the phantom on my team, I'll step back and watch the world burn from the comfort of my desk chair.

So while I'm glad not everybody is automatically assuming I'm evil, be careful about the logic you (universal you) use to get to your conclusions.

Originally Posted by Mac

I thought that maybe Rune was the seer and dreamt of Fea, but no way would a seer risk himself when his innocent dream is not challenged seriously, which Fea wasn't.

Yes. That's what I'm thinking. So here's my thoughts on Rune: he's an ordo that just really likes having me around.

I can't blame him... I like having me around too.

Going back to bed for a while...

I love Mondays.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod: why?

He would have gotten a fair share of criticism today, maybe even votes. He definitely would have hogged a lot of attention. Wraiths like that. Also, his case against Durelin was bad, so maybe he would have been listened to less toDay. Why him?

He could have believed to be Frodo, but I doubt it. The wraiths would have killed him yesterDay, then.

He could have believed to be the ranger, that is possible, but he would have been a terribly clumsy ranger.

Maybe he said something seerish, which I don't think he has. He's too smart to slip and his suspicions were terribly broad.

Maybe he was uncomfortable to the wraiths. The candidates for this would be Aganzir and me.

Maybe he was killed to set up Fea. That would be a very neat move.

Maybe he was another no-trail kill after all, because he was confused and generic, so best to kill him while he's still off track.

Maybe he was chosen because of the size of his name, combined with either because he was uncomfortable or because he was yet harmless.

Maybe he was killed to give us something to talk about and confuse us. At least that's what I enjoy doing when I'm a wolf.


Unless the wraiths really did think he was gifted, I don't think Aganzir killed him. He was not after her so strongly that she had no other choice but to, and otherwise she probably wouldn't make a kill that would point toward her like this.

Given how easily Fea gets herself lynched, there could be merit to the set-up idea. Killing Nogrod would give the wraiths an easy day. In any case: why would Fea want to kill Nogrod? She cannot be more than Ferny. Would the wraiths set up their cobbler like that, though?

[A Little Green]

I think enough people have complained about yesterDay's voting, I won't do that - but I will have to wonder where that "Save Fea" -thingy came from. From what I gather, Nog asked whether anyone would be in for lynching Fea and that was enough to provoke such strong reactions.

I'm getting worried about Lari. Her change of opinion on Dury is weird. In her list post she says:

Originally Posted by Lari

Durelin: Besides not really liking the first post(though it was good) other than the feeling that the character that's like a ranger would not be a ranger but made a wolf(if I were picking) don't have anything on her.

Then:

Originally Posted by Lari

So where did this "lynch Fea" thing come into play? Not that I'm defending her, it just seems to be, well, really spontanious and not right. And I can't spell.

Then she votes Dury with this:

Originally Posted by Lari

Ok, so even after a lot of thinking and really not going off of what Rune said, my vote is:

++Durelin

I know its IC voting, but part of me thinks that putting her as a wolf would have been genius.

I find it weird that she should make voting Durelin look like something she made up all by herself and regardless of what was happening, when it looks to me like an effort to save Fea (who was in no grave danger as far as I can see).

What else? I'll be making a list later toDay and all that, but for now Lommy expressed a wish to post so I'll probably let her.

[Lariren Shadow]

So what I was thinking was this: I have nothing much else to go on. Then I refreshed the page a lot. Right before Fea had poster her vote I had pretty much made up my mind to vote for Durelin. I had no other good suspects. Durelin was the best option at the time for me, I don't know why, maybe my mind at almost 1 AM is not the best thing. Ergo I decided to vote for her. Rune then jumped in while I was refreshing the mad posting so it looked like I was listening to him.

Think I’m suspicious all you want, but I also voted Durelin on Day 1 for the same reasons. I don’t know if that makes me stupid or what.

Why would my vote be saving Fea? She had no votes by that point. Only Nog said to lynch Fea.

If anyone’s “save Fea” thing is suspicious it’s Rune's. I just wanted to know where Nog’s comment was from. Rune was the one who stated he wanted her to stay.

If everyone thinks I'm worth a look, go ahead and look.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I think enough people have complained about yesterDay's voting, I won't do that - but I will have to wonder where that "Save Fea" -thingy came from. From what I gather, Nog asked whether anyone would be in for lynching Fea and that was enough to provoke such strong reactions.

I'm getting worried about Lari. Her change of opinion on Dury is weird. In her list post she says:
Then:
Then she votes Dury with this:

I find it weird that she should make voting Durelin look like something she made up all by herself and regardless of what was happening, when it looks to me like an effort to save Fea (who was in no grave danger as far as I can see).

What else? I'll be making a list later toDay and all that, but for now Lommy expressed a wish to post so I'll probably let her.

I can setainly see why you raise your brows, but these things are difficult to analyse. Sometimes when you do not have much to go on you change your view quite easily, it does not take much more than a few comments from the right people.

As Mac point out there is a lot of possibilities to why Nogrod was killed, I am a bit sad that he does not conclude anything though. I always get a bit suspicous when people use a lot of energy on a post, but do not conclude anything. It seems wraith-ish.

Anyways I find his thoughts about Fea interesting. . . If she was set up, then who was it that did it?
It is tricky as it Fea normaly gets lynched anyway, it might be a wolves that have not played with Fea before or maybe she did it her self. OK that might be a bit twisted, but she is sertainly capable of doing stuff like that.

Allthough I would love it if it is a set-up, which would give us more stuff to analyze, I am more inclined to think that this was mostly a no-trace kill. Seeing that many people rate Nogrod highly, it is likely that the wraith saw a chance of getting rid of him and to make a no trace kill at the same time.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But I never supported xyr revealing! Well yes it would make things easier but it would also be an unfair thing to ask.
Besides what would a wolf gain from Frodo revealing? A lot headache.

Okay, sorry, wrong terminology. What I had in mind, and what we were discussing back on that Day from the beginning, was whether Frodo should be silent or try to give hints about his identity. That was the point, that's what I meant by "revealing" here (really, I used completely wrong word here, sorry for that).

How would disagreeing be suspicious?

Well, like, if all people shared my opinion, i.e. that Frodo should stay put and not give any hints at all, and if everybody agreed on that (and it seemed that many were starting to agree) and they would all think like I do (i.e. if I say it in a bit exaggerating way: that Frodo giving any hints is a suicide for him, resp. "wolficide"), you could seem suspicious if you proposed the other opinion, wouldn't you? So that's basically what I meant (by this thing whose basis I said several Days ago ).

Anyway, I see the mass-posting time is coming, so I'm off to finish reading the thread. Hope to be able to join you people in the "present" in a few hours at most.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Mac

Maybe he was uncomfortable to the wraiths. The candidates for this would be Aganzir and me.

Originally Posted by Mac

Maybe he was killed to give us something to talk about and confuse us. At least that's what I enjoy doing when I'm a wolf.

Dunno, Mac, but looks almost like you're suggesting that you are a wraith yourself...

A list, then, as I think I promised...

Sally - I have no read on her. People keep voicing casual little suspicion on her pretty much all the time, but somehow she still escapes general attention.
Fea - YesterDay's voting certainly didn't put her into a particularly good light. I don't trust her.
Lari - I'm still a bit unsettled by her yesterDay's vote, but her response to me seemed pretty genuine and made me feel better about her. Not sure, still.
Mira - Securely under my reindeer. I'm uneasy about her yesterDay's Dury vote, but that's pretty much all I remember about her. I'll look at her if I have time.
Lommie - Nothing alarming this far.
Legate - Seems okay.
Rikae - I get an overall innocentish feel about her, but I just realised I never quite considered the possibility of her being a wraith. And what on earth was that "I'm Frodo" -business yesterDay?
Agan - Strikes me as innocentish.
Gondie - No idea.
Nerwen - Feels okay.
Rune - I generally get an innocent feel out of his posts, though his vote yesterDay was certainly strange and made me more wary about him. Not convinced either way.
Mac - He's another one that puzzles me. Half the time he seems innocentish, half the time he behaves just oddly and makes strange statements such as his reaction to Rikae's joke reveal. He drives me crazy some day.
Menel - He's been slipping under everybody's radar quite efficiently, I think. Someone to be looked at, to be sure.
Brinniel - I don't get why she is suspected, to me she feels quite okay.


EDIT: x-ed with Leggings

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Brinniel - I don't get why she is suspected, to me she feels quite okay.

That's precisely why I, at least, suspect her: she always feels okay. And then just while she's feeling most okay, she kills you quietly in the Night. My experience is that the people who have played with Brinn a few times have learned that they can't trust their judgment about her at all.

*is awake, eating, reading*

Amuse me, my people!

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Fea

That's precisely why I, at least, suspect her: she always feels okay. And then just while she's feeling most okay, she kills you quietly in the Night. My experience is that the people who have played with Brinn a few times have learned that they can't trust their judgment about her at all.

Tell me about that - I have never in my ww career suspected Brinn, and yet last time we played together she was the wolf genius who cheated us all. So I know what you mean - but I don't think just the fact she feels okay is enough grounds for suspicion. It's certainly enough grounds for keeping an eye on her, but not for direct suspicion - and I can't believe the fact that she can be a very sneaky wolf is the only reason why she is suspected.


EDIT: Have to add, Fea - our avvies look fabulous after each other, don't you think?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lari

Well, I do still think that you are not entirly innocent because of your trying to save yourself.

Why should an innocent person not want to save himself? Please, explain that to me.

Originally Posted by Lari

However, I pretty much voted for the same person two days in a row.

And both times with shady reasoning.

Originally Posted by Lari

As for the rest: are we sure that Nog's death wasn't in some way a way to implicate Fea? Can we really rule out a possible innocent Fea and really good wolves/wraiths? It would be kind of smart of them too. They wouldn't get blamed for killing off a very dangerous innocent, the village would just lynch her and be done with it.

Originally Posted by Lari

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else

How do those two statements go together? Making a point that Fea could have been set up, and then stating that you'd like to lynch her more than anybody else?

(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder).

Again, why does the fact that I escaped narrowly twice make me more suspicious?

Originally Posted by Lari

If anyone’s “save Fea” thing is suspicious it’s Rune's.

At least he admitted it.

Originally Posted by Rune

As Mac point out there is a lot of possibilities to why Nogrod was killed, I am a bit sad that he does not conclude anything though. I always get a bit suspicous when people use a lot of energy on a post, but do not conclude anything. It seems wraith-ish.

Well, my conclusions are my points about Agan and Fea. It's not really possible to say which possibility is the real one yet, but once we have one wraith, we might be able to say more. Guess I should have added that.

Originally Posted by Lily

Dunno, Mac, but looks almost like you're suggesting that you are a wraith yourself...

I never understood it and still don't: why is it suspicious to make statements of the kind "if I was a wolf"?

Also, I might slip once as a wolf, but not three or four times. Seriously. And if I did, I'd be acting much more nervous by now.

[Thinlómien]

I think Rune's and Fea's "explanations" look rather innocent.

I don't think Rune is very suspicious at any rate, if he and Fea were fellows, would he really defend her so openly? I doubt it. Ok, the possibility remains that he was trying to buddy up innocent Fea or prepared to take her down with him in case he's going to die, but why would he do something so eyebrow-raising to get such a small and unsure gain? It does not make sense and therefore the option that seems reasonable to me is that he's innocent and simply wants to keep Fea around. (Of course, he could be a wraith who just wants to keep Fea around... but I doubt a wraith would be so reckless.) Besides, like I've said before, his aggressiveness on Day1 looks rather innocent. I would not be worried about him.

As for Fea... a tougher nut to crack. But what Mac says about her makes sense. I would be willing to give her the benefit of doubt (for toDay at least). I think what Mac says as for her being a wraith solidifies my view of her as a non-wraith, but I'm not convinced of his reasoning why she's not Ferny. Who says the wraiths know Ferny's identity?

But Lari and Mira, they are not as easily exonerated. I would not be surprised at all if one of them voted Durelin yesterDay just to cast an easy vote, not fully comprehending the situation, or making a vote people could excuse for them by saying they were saving their RL friend. Lari seems more suspicious to me of these since like it has been pointed out, her explanations don't quite hold water...

Okay, now I will write a post commenting other stuff, hopefully discussing something else than the Dury-wagon...

[Rikae]

I had a long post ready to go and the browser froze.

Originally Posted by Lari

are we sure that Nog's death wasn't in some way a way to implicate Fea? Can we really rule out a possible innocent Fea and really good wolves/wraiths?

No.

Fea implicated herself. They would have had to be really, really good wraiths to force Fea to start a crazy bandwagon minutes before deadline. That has nothing to do with Nog's death.

Lari's pretty high on my list of suspects now.

As I thought, I don't buy Fea's explanations at all. I find it especially bizarre that she cites fear of being lynched as a reason. No one was talking about lynching her until after she made her strange attack on Dury, and even then, there was really no movement to lynch her. She's latching onto Rune's misguided impression here to try to explain herself, I guess. Won't work.
As for protecting Mac, since when was she so worried about him - worried enough to incriminate herself and those who followed her and lynch Dury with little (rather, no) reason? Besides, she claims she didn't expect anyone to follow her vote, so how was she saving herself or Mac anyway?

Now, I understand voting for a non-participant because you don't want to lynch the big names whose heads are on the block. I've done that myself. Fea, however, actively furthered the impression there was merit in Nog's accusations, and behaved as though starting a bandwagon was her goal. Her actions were blatently cobblerish (or suicidal-wolfish).

It's time I put my money where my mouth is. I'm rarely so sure of someone's guilt, and I don't want to take a chance on lynching another innocent toDay when a baddie has basically turned herself in.
If it were someone other than Fea, I'd say keep her around for now as a "known cobbler" and go after her partners in crime. However, I've seen how Fea can mislead a village, and I don't feel like standing around and witnessing another example of it.

++Fea

And now I'll focus on other people. Talking only about Fea, after all, would waste the Day.

[Lariren Shadow]

Mac: Two options I see: Fea is innocent and set up by the wolves/wraiths to be lynched by us. Possiblity. Second option she is guilty, decided that to throw suspicion away from other wolves/wraiths she should sacrifice herself and be lynched.

Which is more probable with Fea? I still have very little to go on with the posts, I still need to re-read things through, but is it always so bad to suspect Fea of anything?

Will my admitting that my vote was on shaky grounds help? Because it was soley silly suspicions that were nothing more than how I would have tried to cast roles/she kept posting IC while the rest of us had stopped. Does that help now?

Now here's a question I have, and not sure if anyone has the answer(or if Kitanna could answer it) but here it is:

Let's say this happened last night: the wolves decided to kill Fea to try to frame more innocents/they wanted to. The Ranger was protecting her that Night, so she couldn't be killed. Did the wolves/wraiths then get another kill? Could they have chosen Nog as a way to still get Fea? Especially if Nog would have been implicated in her death. Because he would certainly been the best canidate for lynching if the deaths were reversed.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Fea implicated herself. They would have had to be really, really good wraiths to force Fea to start a crazy bandwagon minutes before deadline. That has nothing to do with Nog's death.

No, that's silly. The crazy Durelin thing was totally my doing. I certainly don't blame Nog for it... I wanted to save Mac, and Dury was an easy target based on the persistence of her IC posting (which is another part of Day 1's that always annoys me; I always like Day 2's better because people start actually behaving like themselves instead of hiding behind fictional narratives).

My Durelin thing had nothing to do with the wraiths.

But I do think that Nog's death was an easy way to cast extra suspicion on me after I brought all that attention onto myself.

Besides, she claims she didn't expect anyone to follow her vote, so how was she saving herself or Mac anyway?

The fight is often more important than the victory.

Talking only about Fea, after all, would waste the Day.

That statement was totally calculated.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Let's say this happened last night: the wolves decided to kill Fea to try to frame more innocents/they wanted to. The Ranger was protecting her that Night, so she couldn't be killed. Did the wolves/wraiths then get another kill? Could they have chosen Nog as a way to still get Fea? Especially if Nog would have been implicated in her death. Because he would certainly been the best canidate for lynching if the deaths were reversed.

Unless Kit changed the way it usually works, what happens if the wraiths pick the Ranger-protectee is that there is no death. No do-over.

So Nog died because the wraiths wanted him, the end.

K?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

My playing style changes. Depending on my mood. Depending on how tired, busy, whatever, I am in real life. I am annoyed that you give the impression, accidentally or not, it doesn't matter, that's how you come across, of being able to read me perfectly just because we know each other in RL. I am annoyed of you comparing me to previous games and telling what I would do as a wolf or ordo or gifted or whatever.
And I admit I probably wouldn't be so annoyed if it was someone else but you.

It's good that you admit it because I haven't seen you reacting that way to anyone else's comments of your playing style... And if it helps you, I can once again underline the fact that I don't want people to trust my judgement on you any more than anyone else's.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

What's normally? Last time we played you said exactly the same. And the time before... And...

Touché, you're probably right. Okay, jumpyness excused.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Maybe it was better if we simply concentrated on other people instead of each other as long as possible. I can't remember when we last did not have a quarrel.

Well but once we've had the quarrel, we tend to be able to be civil to each other, so I'm not going to ignore you, at least (even if it means another quarrel, I think I will be able to stay calm-ish)...

I find it funny how Mac goes from claiming Fea's guilt to claiming her innocence within a few hours. (But it does make sense, so it makes me amused more than suspicious. )

But what makes you so sure the wraiths didn't think he was Frodo?

Well, I haven't read his posts very precisely, but at least his talk about the RB role on Day1 looked rather un-Frodoish to me.


edit: xed with everybody since my last

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Now here's a question I have, and not sure if anyone has the answer(or if Kitanna could answer it) but here it is:

Let's say this happened last night: the wolves decided to kill Fea to try to frame more innocents/they wanted to. The Ranger was protecting her that Night, so she couldn't be killed. Did the wolves/wraiths then get another kill? Could they have chosen Nog as a way to still get Fea? Especially if Nog would have been implicated in her death. Because he would certainly been the best canidate for lynching if the deaths were reversed.

Fea is correct in saying the ranger's power overrides that of the wraiths. If the wraiths attack someone under the ranger's protection there is not a death that Night.

[Thinlómien]

Now that you're here, Kit, would you also like to clarify whether it will be noted in the narration that the ringbearer changed sides, or not?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Lommy

(Of course, he could be a wraith who just wants to keep Fea around... but I doubt a wraith would be so reckless.)

Some would. I did exactly that once as a wolf. However, I think you're probably right in thinking Rune most likely wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Lommy

As for Fea... a tougher nut to crack. But what Mac says about her makes sense. I would be willing to give her the benefit of doubt (for toDay at least). I think what Mac says as for her being a wraith solidifies my view of her as a non-wraith, but I'm not convinced of his reasoning why she's not Ferny. Who says the wraiths know Ferny's identity?

What that Mac says? Do you mean this?

Originally Posted by Mac

Given how easily Fea gets herself lynched, there could be merit to the set-up idea. Killing Nogrod would give the wraiths an easy day. In any case: why would Fea want to kill Nogrod? She cannot be more than Ferny. Would the wraiths set up their cobbler like that, though?

I don't see why Fea wouldn't kill Nogrod. First of all, like I said to Lari, I don't see how it sets her up. Secondly, if Fea is a wraith, she's a wraith who decided her time in the village was limited anyway, so she might as well go out in a blaze of glory, incriminating as many innocents as she could and making her companions look good. She would have expected to be a top lynch candidate toDay anyway, so the way the kill reflected on her wouldn't have been a consideration.
If she's a cobbler, it's much the same situation. Now Mac, Lari and Lommy have all repeated this assumption that Fea is only suspicious because Nog died. Utter nonsense! I, for one, was ready to lynch Fea before deadline fell yesterDay (and would have switched my vote, had I been on my own computer instead of Mac's laptop. I can't type fast on that thing.) Nog's death doesn't even make Fea more suspicious. The most a living Nog would have done is offered a runner-up to Fea in lynchability, and he had a built-in excuse (Lommy's comment about drinking too much wine).

Now you're all making me talk about Fea more.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

No, that's silly. The crazy Durelin thing was totally my doing. I certainly don't blame Nog for it... I wanted to save Mac, and Dury was an easy target based on the persistence of her IC posting (which is another part of Day 1's that always annoys me; I always like Day 2's better because people start actually behaving like themselves instead of hiding behind fictional narratives).

My Durelin thing had nothing to do with the wraiths.

???
Um, yeah. Of course it didn't. Tell that to Lari, she's the one to whom I was responding.

Originally Posted by Fea

But I do think that Nog's death was an easy way to cast extra suspicion on me after I brought all that attention onto myself.

And now you repeat it. This Nog's-death-makes-Fea-look-suspicious thing has become quite the little meme, without anyone giving a reason for it. Perhaps you can?

[Rikae]

The next thing I do, I swear, will be to look at Lommy. I've been wanting to all Day, and keep getting sidetracked.

[Brinniel]

(times are in EST)

5:28PM Rikae: ++Greenie (Greenie 1)
8:11PM Aganzir: ++Mac (Greenie 1, Mac 1)
9:43PM Greenie: ++Nogrod (Greenie 1, Mac 1, Nogrod 1)
10:19PM Menel: ++Mac (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1)
10:21PM Lommy: ++Aganzir (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1)
12:35AM Fea: ++Durelin (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 1)
12:57AM Lariren: ++Durelin (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 2)
12:59AM Rune: ++Durelin (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 3)
12:59AM Mirandir: ++Durelin (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 4)
1:00AM Brinniel: ++Fea (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 4, Fea 1)
1:00AM Mac: ++Durelin (Greenie 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 5, Fea 1)
------PAST DEADLINE----------
1:01AM Durelin: ++Mac (Greenie 1, Mac 3, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 5, Fea 1)
1:01AM Nogrod: ++Durelin (Greenie 1, Mac 3, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 6, Fea 1)
1:01AM Beregond: ++Mac (Greenie 1, Mac 4, Nogrod 1, Aganzir 1, Durelin 6, Fea 1)

Did not vote: Legate, Sally, Nerwen

What's scary is that half of the voters voted within three minutes of each other (three of which missed deadline). I admit I am one of those guilty of last-minute voting; the deadline crept on me as it seemed to do for others. But that's not a great excuse, so let's just avoid letting it from happening again. Last minute voting frenzies more often than not turn out badly.

[Thinlómien]

Yes, Rikae, that was the quote I meant. Nogrod's death incriminates Fea because it removes one person who would clearly be suspected because of the Dury-lynch, and now the blame is bound to lay on Fea and Rune, and a bit on Lari and Mira as well although it's easy to make an excuse for those two. Simply, a wolf Fea would consider twice before making a kill that increses the procentual amount of spotlight on her.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now Mac, Lari and Lommy have all repeated this assumption that Fea is only suspicious because Nog died.

I haven't. I think most of the suspicion on her is because of her doings at the time of the yesterday's lynch - at any rate, that's where all my suspicions of her stemmed.


edit: xed with Brinn

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yes, Rikae, that was the quote I meant. Nogrod's death incriminates Fea because it removes one person who would clearly be suspected because of the Dury-lynch, and now the blame is bound to lay on Fea and Rune, and a bit on Lari and Mira as well although it's easy to make an excuse for those two. Simply, a wolf Fea would consider twice before making a kill that increses the procentual amount of spotlight on her.

No she wouldn't. Not when she was already making suicidal, obviously evil moves like the one she made yesterDay.
Not to mention Nog's death proves that it was possible for an ordo to be that mistaken, casting the whole bandwagon in a better light.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Mac

Rune's desire to save Fea is out of proportion.

Yes that's true but it might also be because he enjoys playing with Fea so much. However there wasn't much of a threat that she'd be lynched. Also, if Rune was a wraith, would he try to save an evil Fea so obviously?

Originally Posted by Brinn

But what makes you so sure the wraiths didn't think he was Frodo?

What reason would they have had to think so?
This looks a bit like a wolfish Brinn had slipped something from their nightly discussion.

Originally Posted by Mac

Maybe he was killed to give us something to talk about and confuse us. At least that's what I enjoy doing when I'm a wolf.

And who's the most eager to talk about his death?

Originally Posted by Legate

whether Frodo should be silent or try to give hints about his identity.

Hey I didn't say xe should give hints about xyr identity, I just said xe might do so with plans to get turned into a wraith.
And yes, it might look suspicious if I disagreed with everyone else, but I'd do it if I thought I was right. I had been thinking of Frodo just as a cursed role who wants to become a wolf but then people brought up good points about xem being on our side at least in the beginning.

Greenie's list is creepy because it could have been written by me.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Well but once we've had the quarrel, we tend to be able to be civil to each other, so I'm not going to ignore you, at least (even if it means another quarrel, I think I will be able to stay calm-ish)...

It was a response to your comment that we shouldn't play werewolf together, at least this way. It wasn't intended to include this game in particular.

I think Rikae's comments on Fea make the most sense thus far and garr I don't want to trust Rikae all the time! Anyway it wouldn't be that difficult for an evil Fea to talk herself out of the situation, which means that if she's to be lynched she should be lynched sooner rather than later.

I could go through Mira's posts now. And I should still write those papers, argh.

[Thinlómien]

Angels
Legate - still gives me no reason to suspect himself, seems sharp, honest and open. Actually, the only thing that troubles me about him is that he doesn't trouble me at all...
Mac - my gut-feeling says he's innocent, after all. Besides, he has made some good points in his defense, like for example that if he really was making wolf-slips all the time, he'd be far more nervous by now.
Nerwen - I just don't suspect her.
Rikae - despite the fact that I've disagreed quite a lot with her lately, I think she's innocent.
Rune - all the "proof" I've seen points at his innocence.

Gargoyles ()
Aganzir - I hate to admit this, but now that I'm less annoyed with her, I'm also less suspicious of her. I'm sure she really bears watching, though.
Beregond - seems sensible, calm and smart, but maybe indeed using the newbie-shield too much? I have to say I'm not too worried, though.
Fea - throughout the game, I've had a gut-feeling that she's not a wolf. And she does have very innocent posts. On the other hand, like discussed very extensively, she's been acting really fishily. But like I've said, it's unlikely she's a wraith - whether she's ordo or Ferny, that can be debated and to that, I have no answer.
Greenie - I don't know, currently I have the feeling I can't read her but she seems ok. (See? My suspicion of her fades with the general one... )
Menel - I have to admit I let him slip under my radar. Just because he seems innocent enough.
Mira - seemed very innocent on Day1, less so on Day2. I'd like to hear more of her.

Demons
Brinniel - I know it's silly she's stuck here, but I can't help it, it's just a gut feeling that she's up to no good. I have little actual rational reasons to suspect her but I just don't trust her. And no, it's really not just because of last game.
Lari - flip-floppy and not convincing. I'm worried, though, that she might become the "easy victim" for the lynch.
sally - I have a bad feeling about her, I don't like her chipper attitude and aplogising/flip-flopping. She has said some weird stuff, some I have even commented, but I don't remember them well enough to quote them here.

If I have time toDay, I'd love to have a look at either sally or Brinn to see if there are any rational reasons to suspect them. Probably at sally because she's evaded the spotlight far more carefully than Brinn...


edit: xed with Rikae and Agan

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lari

Second option she is guilty, decided that to throw suspicion away from other wolves/wraiths she should sacrifice herself and be lynched.

In that case, at least one other wraith must have been under pressure yesterDay, because otherwise nothing would speak against attempting to survive as a team. If there's nobody in need of sacrifice, then there's no need to sacrifice, after all.

Who do you have in mind, Lari?

Originally Posted by Lari

I still have very little to go on with the posts, I still need to re-read things through, but is it always so bad to suspect Fea of anything?

I'm just noticing that you go from defending Fea, saying you have nothing to go on concerning her, and saying you would vote for her quite rapidly.

Originally Posted by Fea

I wanted to save Mac, and Dury was an easy target

I can't claim to be comfortable with this. Even when trying to save myself I at least try to lynch somebody who at least looks somewhat guilty, and not the first-best hapless victim.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Besides, she claims she didn't expect anyone to follow her vote, so how was she saving herself or Mac anyway?

Good point. I didn't notice that before.


Glad to amuse you, Lommy. I'm sure it will amuse you even more that I'm now more suspicious of her again.

Originally Posted by Rikae

First of all, like I said to Lari, I don't see how it sets her up.

It technically doesn't, but Nogrod's presence would have kept a lot of suspicion from going into her direction.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Secondly, if Fea is a wraith, she's a wraith who decided her time in the village was limited anyway, so she might as well go out in a blaze of glory, incriminating as many innocents as she could and making her companions look good.

Limited, yes, but making it one day longer is always desirable, so why needlessly shorten one's time?
Also, she didn't incriminate anybody, Lari, Mirandir, and Rune incriminated themselves by following her.

Originally Posted by Rikae

The most a living Nog would have done is offered a runner-up to Fea in lynchability

And why would the wraiths lynch somebody they had such a use for? Better to try to get Nogrod lynched toDay and let Fea go down toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Not to mention Nog's death proves that it was possible for an ordo to be that mistaken, casting the whole bandwagon in a better light.

Durelin had six votes. I think it's self-evident that one innocent was in there.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

No she wouldn't. Not when she was already making suicidal, obviously evil moves like the one she made yesterDay.

Voting Durelin out of the blue, you mean?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Not to mention Nog's death proves that it was possible for an ordo to be that mistaken, casting the whole bandwagon in a better light.

But no one never assumes a whole bandwagon to be evil. And if such a "better light" kill was to be made, why Nogrod? I think he would have got a bigger share of the spotlight than any of the others...

Originally Posted by Rikae

The most a living Nog would have done is offered a runner-up to Fea in lynchability, and he had a built-in excuse (Lommy's comment about drinking too much wine).

I doubt it would have worked... he would not have used it as an excuse himself, and I can tell you he did not drink that much (at least by the time I went to sleep ).

Originally Posted by Mac

Glad to amuse you, Lommy. I'm sure it will amuse you even more that I'm now more suspicious of her again.

Well now you baffle me.

[Rikae]

A look at the shady-she-penguin:


Post #41:


Looks very calculated, and caught my eye right off the bat. Summery: Setup looks good for the villagers, that's dangerous because we might be careless, so let's stop the banter and get serious, here, “maybe I'll start about that”: banterers are cobblerish, at least make some “useless and obvious “discussion of setting and roles instead.


So easy,calculated and safe.


#81 (I see Lommy also is a victim of the curse of always starting new pages !)


Lots of fluff about typos, horoscopes, “xe”, etc. Iffy suspicions toward Agan (mix of wolfish and innocent self), wishy-washy statement about Fea (“I quite like Fea's tactics...but it does also look like a terribly convenient way of wolfing around”). Niceness to newbies.


Lommy's still playing it very safe. I can't really judge her suspicion toward Agan, since it's based on knowing her really well. I suppose no one can really judge that suspicion, and it's unlikely to attract attention, making it quite a safe one.


Post #88


Calls Agan's question (about what weird stuff she says) “nit-picking dictatorship”. Kind of an odd reaction – has a bit of a wolf-on-wolf feel to it. Claims Ferny is no great threat and we shouldn't worry about him, insinuates Agan is Ferny for suggesting he is. A very sinister paragraph, as I pointed out earlier. Says pointing out Frodo-ish behavior helps the wolves (also misleading). Some defensive looking statements (“this looks suspiciously like a case”). Still, the way she goes after Agan – in two posts, first “weird stuff”, then elaborating, looks somewhat innocentish.


Post 91 – the “this end” phrasing in Mac's post. Honest mistake, I suppose, but could also be an honest-evil-mistake (looking for an easy lynch. She's been very focused on finding wolf-slips in this game).

- several short responses to people, nothing really noteworthy -


Votes for Agan, saying she's probably Bill or Frodo. I, unlike others, don't find this especially suspicious.


Conclusion for Day1: slightly suspicious, but not extremely so.


I'll have to finish this later – I'm holding a hungry baby.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. I have just finished reading Day 2. Two basic things I conclude are written at the end of the post.

Now onto what I have read there in particular:

LG. Post 247: Is it so that there is nobody you actually suspect? Except for Sally, most people are either not alarming, or she has no idea about them.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

oh just a quick note about Frodo: Obviously people can play how they wish, but I always got the impression that Frodo was on our side. This should mean that he does not speculate in shifting sides and such, so Frodo should always act in a way that benifits his current team.

Just like Frodo did not consider letting the wraith stap him in weathertop so that he could becoe a wraith and join Sauron, however it was a risk. . .but not a choice.

Rune: Agreed and I could not say it better. (Even though I said that already before, and not just me, but some others as well.) That does not mean revealing rightaway, but some kind of trying to pass unnoticed by the Wraiths.

Rune seems innocent to me (and his post #254 seems good to me).

Aganzir seems more like innocent to me, and it may as well be that she really is, and not just pretends this time - like she often does. Where of course, one can never be certain... but I think she may be really innocent.

Mac makes some sense throughout the Day, but I believe if anyone, he is up to impersonating a sensible innocent while being a Wolf and wishing all the worst.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I see these options:

1. The wraiths were under unexpectedly much Day1-pressure and chose a safe kill. this is unlikely, though, since there are better ways to divert attention.
2. The wraiths were under absolutely no pressure and the village was entirely wrong about each candidate. The trail-less kill was chosen to prolong this state.
3. The wraiths are timid by nature and didn't dare to assault anybody who even might leave a track towards them. (In this case, they might even have thought that Shasta was the seer.)
4. The wraiths are sportsmen who thought it was a good idea to keep those alive that talked more and kill those who talked less.

-While Option 1 is possible, I'd like to discard it for now - mostly because that goes along with my suspicions from yesterday (it would more or less mean that both Lommy and Brinn are wraiths).
-Option 2 only means that Lommy and Brinn (and me, of course) are innocent. The wraiths could be anybody else.
-Option 3 leads us, I think, to Lari, Mirandir, and Beregond, for (relative) newbieness, and to Lommy, Brinn, and maybe Lily, for being of a more timid nature. It exonerates villagers who are both daring and dominant, such as Legate, Rikae, Nogrod, and Nerwen.
-Option 4 points to Legate and Nogrod (not saying that everybody else is not sportsmanlike, but those two are most likely to make a point of it).

Also, it is possible him offering these four options for why Shasta was killed was a way of him presenting some options to the innocents: "And now, choose, come all, come all! Do you want to believe X is a Wolf? Option #1 is just what you need! Or would you rather suspect Y? Come on, I am offering you this brand-new option #2! Go and lynch them!" etc.

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.

But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

And Menel actually said a good thing about this:

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

I'd suggest we keep any speculation regarding the Innkeeper/Seer to ourselves. Discussing Seerish comments openly just draws the wraiths towrd the true Seer, which isn't good. True, it may help to protect said person, but I personally think it wise to conceal the Seer's identity from xyr enemies as long as possible.

Which makes me think - was this an attempt from Fea to draw out the real Seer? Quite possible. Very possible.

And related, one more thing to Beregond:

Originally Posted by Beregond

But like you say it could be a red herring, or just in fun. Still, if that is true it's a strange statement as it doesn't help innocents much, does it?

I don't get this, is "red herring" any saying, or does it have anything to do with me? (You know, my role.) Like, if Berewolf could give hints to Fea Ferny, trying to communicate, like that I was the Seer, or something?

Mac's list in #326 is so "neutral" (in the sense: most people are "innocent" or "no idea about" or such), so that I can imagine it as a list of a Wolf trying to be on good terms with everyone, especially as it seems that he may be suspected by some.
(Which is, as I see, exactly what Rikae said in her post right after that.)

I have to ask, at this moment, why the heck was Mac not lynched yesterDay? At this point (where I am reading now), it looks so obvious! <= Okay, now I wrote this when I was still reading the thread, this is written when I am actually posting the post: I would not call that "so obvious" anymore, but still, he looks Wolfy enough.

And, okay, I haven't read toDay yet, but I can think of one reason (as I am reading through yesterDay) why Nog was killed: because the Wolves thought he is a Ranger. And why? Because they thought he is a Ranger and is annoyed by the fact that (according to him) Durelin was impersonating him. A normal person would not have taken Dury's "ranger impersonation" (in my opinion, and probably also in the Wolves' opinion, as I really don't get what Nog followed by that - that was really an obvious IC post) in any serious manner, but a Ranger could perhaps be more attentive and startled by that? However, it showed that Nog was not a Ranger after all. But I can imagine the scenario working like that.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Because it can be useful to have a good idea who is playing the Ranger role.

Which seems to be what Durelin's getting at.

What I can't figure out about this game is what's with the mysterious 'obvious' reveals so early on? Rikae playing seer, Durelin posting only in Ranger garb (and third person)... What is this about? Is it just a reignited desire for simple playfulness?

Or is there something secret going on with roles? Or like...

I just can't figure out why ordos would set themselves up to be lynched unless they're taking one for the team in effort to set up a bandwagon so the people later on can analyze what happened?

Like... it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm very tempted to vote Dury as I don't know what she's playing at. I feel like the Ranger wouldn't make a point of making herself wraith-bait.

Geez! And again! Okay, I don't mind when Mirandir asks about debating about the Ranger, he is a newbie. But Fea AGAIN joins in a speculation which started (by a newbie's remark) about a Gifted's role! Gifteds are not to be speculated about! They are too valuable for the village to reveal, for Eru's sake, not unless there is any good reason for them to do that! Fea is not a newbie, she should know that. SHE IS A COBBLER! There can be NO OTHER explanation.

****

My two most important conclusions of Day 2:

1. Fea is an OBVIOUS Cobbler. Informer. Bill Ferny. Whatever you call it.
2. Mac is likely a Wolf. Wraith. Whatever you call it.

These two information, unless they get relativised by what I read today, are two basic things I would like to propose in front of you to consider. I really can't see how anybody can think otherwise (about Fea at least), and how people might have voted Durelin, for mostly quite silly reasons (need to look at that once again, but in general, saving Fea makes little sense - even though of course it is better to lynch a Wraith than an Informer, though - but when she was about to go already... people were actually saving her, that's what was the worst on that).

Now onto toDay and I will be with you in the present.

[Meneltarmacil]

Fea seems to hover between being helpful and being mysterious in my book. Day 1 was a strange one for her, as she said she'd look at Sally but then switched to Brinn, whom she strongly suspected but gave no reason for suspecting.

Her role in starting the Durelin bandwagon is also suspicious. That one came out of nowhere, and led to an innocent dying. I'd be wary of Fea, myself.