Tol-in-Gaurhoth XVIII: The Play’s The Thing…

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

If Eomer was looking to latch on a bandwaggon, he might have ridden on tar's vote for Boro, instead of on Kath's vote for tar. This argues for tar's innocence a bit.

Although perhaps Boro was under little suspicion that day . . . and Eomer had to ride a bandwaggon with the hope of saving himself. The second fastest bandwaggon was tar's. Hmmm . . . were two Wolves in danger then? But why didn't tar vote for Eomer, which would have made her look innocent now? A wolf who feared fratricide? Or unwitting innocent? (She was the second voter, who voted at 1616 GMT.) I'm leaning more on the former.

If tar is a wolf either Glirdan or Farael might be, which would account for their no-votes. Still for fears of fratricide. I think.

Celuien still rings alarms in my head, although I'm not so suspicious of her. Kath, too. I guess their Gil votes DAY 1 and their Garin votes DAY 3 still rankle at me.

I have to vote now:

++tar-ancalime

[Aiwendil]

All right, as I hoped, I've got some time to analyse non-Eomer voters.

SPM has provided what look to me like reasonable analyses of Farael, Tar, and Kath, so I'm going to look at Glirdan first and see if I have time to do more.

[Aiwendil]

Glirdan
DAY 1: Proposes that we get rid of the quiet ones (post 4). I find this a bit odd, considering that Glirdan has been fairly quiet. But I don't think that this particularly suggests wolvishness. Then he votes for Gil. He was the first to do so, and as random DAY 1 votes go, Gil was a pretty safe one. On the other hand, it's quite possible that he's an innocent who really did think that eliminating the quiet/unhelpful villagers first was the best strategy. So I don't see anything particularly suspicious in his vote - at least, I don't think it's as suspicious as the later votes for Gil.

DAY 2: Laments the Seer's death and says that his vote for Gil-Galad was random. Then he makes his first really substantial post of the game (# 130). He says that his suggestion that we get rid of the quiet ones was a "complete ploy" to start discussion. All right, but if so, why did he follow through on it and vote for Gil? Then he says we should look at those who reacted strongly to the suggestion, Lhuna in particular. He quotes LMP's reaction, but doesn't say what this makes him think of LMP.

Then he moves on to answer my questions from DAY 1. He says that voting records are important but also:

As for the tone of the post, well, it all depends on how you yourself take the posts. Because one person could take something that was supposed to be humourous and turn into an accusation which could lead to trouble for both people.

He thinks the question about the Gifteds' strategy "isn't as bright as the previous one", though I don't really understand his reasoning for this:

because that's the intention of not only the Gifteds, but the Wolves as well

He says we should probably still spread the votes slightly.

In post 132 he continues to suspect Lhuna. Then he asks "why on earth" Boromir voted for Gil-Galad, claiming that:

Everyone knows fully well that if it comes down to a tie, the person to reach that number of votes first would be lynched. Your vote sealed Gil's fate. So, that brings me to this: why did you not vote for the person you suspected??

Now, this is false. Several people (including me) had forgotten that with the rule against double lynches, Gil-Galad would have been lynched even in the case of a tie. Further, and for precisely that reason, Boromir did not seal Gil-Galad's fate; Gil would have been lynched whatever Boromir's vote was. It strikes me that this could be a wolvish attempt to start building a case against Boromir, particularly given that Boromir had received four votes on DAY 1 and thus seemed likely to be a lynch-candidate.

Glirdan then voted for Lhuna. His motivation seems to have been nothing more than her reaction to his "lynch the quiet ones" suggestion. Not the best evidence, I think, but nonetheless it's something I could very well see an innocent doing. He was the first to vote for Lhuna, but he knew that there was already some suspicion of her. Could be an attempt to start a bandwagon, but again it's the later votes I tend to suspect more.

It is interesting, though, that Glirdan was the first to vote on both DAYS 1 and 2 and with those two vote he started the campaigns against both Gil and Lhuna.

DAY 3: Says that the reason he answered my questions on DAY 2 instead of DAY 1 was that he had little time. He's confused by LMP's self-vote. Then he says that if LMP wants out, he'll help; he votes for LMP. As others have noted, this looks like a very likely move for a wolf. After LMP withdraws, he does not re-vote. Again, looks like a good move for a wolf.

DAY 4: No appearance at all.

Conclusion: He doesn't look incredibly suspicious to me, but he's certainly worrying me. His votes have all been for innocents who died that DAY. Too obvious for a wolf? Maybe. But somehow he's avoided much suspicion for most of the game.

One thing that really does worry me about him is the way he suggested we lynch the quiet ones and then explained the next DAY that it was a "ploy". This looks suspicious to me in the same way that Tar's DAY 1 attack on Spawn and subsequent backing off looks suspicious.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well I am glad that I am not the only one here, but it still seems rather quiet to me. Perhaps the Wolves are avoiding saying anything which might incriminate themselves or each other.

My thoughts on Aiwendil’s contributions. Again, I have addressed only those points which stood out to me one way or the other.

Day 1

His first contribution invited discussion of possible villager strategy (#7). At the time, this struck me as sensible as it is good to have something to discuss on Day 1 other than random accusations and counter-accusations. However, it did kick off all that Seer talk, and so it is possible that it was intended to divert the village into meaningless discussion or perhaps even flush out the True Seer.

Day 2

On Day 2, as on Day 1, his suspicions were mainly directed towards tar-ancalime but, having reviewed her posts, I can understand why.

He was attacked strongly by Farael (again, as on Day 1), but his response looks reasonable to me, if a little bewildered (#187).

Day 3

On Day 3, Aiwendil began to outline strong suspicions of littlemanpoet (starting with #228). Now, quite a few of us were suspicious of lmp at that point but, as I have said, I do suspect that the Wolves had targeted lmp as a likely candidate for the noose that Day, so that could point towards Aiwendil. However, it could also point towards Glirdan, tar-ancalime Farael and Eomer, the last of whom we know was a Wolf.

In his analysis of the villagers, Eomer said that he was giving Aiwendil a “free ride” (#300). Would he say that about a fellow Wolf? Possibly, though it would seem risky given the suspicion surrounding him at the time.

Aiwendil commented that Eomer’s “shrill” defence looked more innocent than Wolfish and (following lmp’s departure) voted for Garin to put him level on votes with Eomer (#316). This does look suspicious, but would be a dangerous move for a Wolf at that time. It was quite possible that Eomer would be lynched.

Day 4

Aiwendil started out by saying that he was inclined to Eomer’s innocence (#351). I am rather doubtful that a Wolfish Aiwendil would have defended Eomer-Wolf in the circumstances prevailing at the time. Eomer was a strong candidate to be lynched. It is possible, though, that it was a double-bluff. He did express stronger suspicions of Eomer as the Day progressed.

I was uncomfortable about Aiwendil’s suggestion that we should lynch either Eomer or tar and then, if they turned out a Wolf, lynch the other, and also with his suggestion that we should lynch morm if either turned out innocent (#372). I can see the sense in what he was saying, but it seems rather calculating to me.

He voted for tar-ancalime, to put her level on votes with Eomer (#384). Might be regarded as suspicious, but, as with Kath, that depends to an extent upon whether tar is a Wolf or not.

The most striking thing from my review of Aiwendil’s posts is how little there is that strikes me, given that he has been one of the more vocal villagers. That might indicate that he is a Wolf trying to play it safe, or it might simply indicate that he is a helpful innocent. What there is may suggest a possible connection with Eomer, but I wonder whether a Wolf would have allowed himself to become connected with another Wolf in that way. It would run counter to the strategy of “playing it safe”, which looks to have been Aiwendil's approach if he is a Wolf.

Still, there are some grounds for suspicion there.

I’d like to take a look at Glirdan and Celuien, but I am not sure how much time I will have to do so. I am already neglecting my dignatorial duties.

[Aiwendil]

Celuien

DAY 1: Her first post is ordinary DAY 1 nonsense. In post 66, she says she doesn't find Glirdan suspicious, despite his early vote. She finds Tar's shift from suspecting Spawn to voting for Eomer strange. In post 70, she says she doesn't think the False Seer will do much harm, though she does worry a little bit about a wolf impersonating the False Seer. Now, as I've said before, I don't think that the much-maligned DAY 1 "seer talk" was evil or wicked, so these comments look innocent to me. She then comments on Farael's attack on me, disagreeing with his analysis but also saying that his attack makes him look innocent. At the time, I agreed that it did. Now I'm not so sure, though. One could imagine that Farael and Celuien are both wolves and that this was Celuien's way of backing up Farael without being too obvious. Post 91 is more speculation about a wolvish impersonation of the False Seer. Doesn't really change my opinion of her either way.

Then she votes for Gil, putting him at four and thereby ensuring his death. She says this is because she doesn't have much to go on. Of course, no one has much to go on on DAY 1; but obviously Celuien realized that Gil was a clear favorite to be lynched and that her vote could well seal his fate. Could very well be a wolf jumping on the bandwagon.

DAY 2: Says she didn't suspect Holbytlass was gifted. Thinks her death was an unlucky accident. Looks over her posts and doesn't find anything to indicate a Seer; thinks her defense of mormegil was too light to indicate a dream. Says the False Seer should stay hidden until a known innocent would be more useful. This looks to me like a sensible and innocent suggestion.

Later, she takes a look at Lhunardawen and LMP, the two top suspects for the DAY. She seems to conclude that the suspicions of Lhuna are mostly unfounded, though her response to Glirdan's suggestion was strange, and that LMP's vote for Boromir looked very odd, but that she thinks a wolvish LMP would not be so obvious. Defends her re-entering the Seer discussion on DAY 1 against SpM's query.

In post 163, she suddenly picks up on a comment by Garin and accuses him of having "too much sympathy for the furry type". She doesn't feel comfortable with voting for LMP, apparently due to his spirited defence. Also says that Lhuna and Tar do not look wolvish to her. Still thinks that Farael, SpM, and I are innocent, and is willing to consider Boromir innocent for the moment. Votes for Garin. Well, Garin looked suspicious to me too at the time, though it is noteworthy that Celuien hadn't voiced any suspicion of him until that moment. Hers was the first vote for Garin, so it doesn't come across as a wolf jumping on an opportunity.

DAY 3: Gives thoughts on each villager. Her comment on Eomer is:

I can see why he looks suspicious, but there’s not really enough for me to go on to vote for him. Will watch.

That looks a bit like a wolf hesitating between supporting her fellow and distancing herself from him.

She votes for Garin again, and again she's the first to do so. Essentially the same as what she did on DAY 2.

DAY 4: Thinks Spawn's death looks like a deliberate framing of Eomer. Doesn't think a wolvish Eomer would do that. But also acknowledges that it's a possible double-bluff and thus doesn't discount Eomer from consideration. Again, this looks a lot like a wolf trying to have it both ways in talking about a fellow wolf.

In post 348, she names her suspects as Farael, Glirdan, Formendacil, Nilpaurion, Eomer, and Kath. Thinks that if Eomer is a wolf, then Farael is probably not. I disagree with this, since Farael didn't start to attack Eomer until the latter looked likely to be lynched. Perhaps the trio is Eomer, Farael, and Celuien, and she was trying to lay the groundwork for a defence of Farael. She still can't make up her mind about Eomer.

In post 366, she says she believes Formendacil's declaration that he is the False Seer. She now says that she suspects Farael more than Nilpaurion. She will probably not vote for Eomer unless something changes.

And late in the DAY we have the much-discussed Eomer as a Ranger bluff, which Celuien apparently falls for, voting for Tar.

There's certainly a fair amount to suspect here. But the Eomer bluff yesterDAY really leads me to think that she's innocent. Would the wolves have planned something like that so far in advance? Could they pull it off so well without being able to communicate privately? I'm inclined to think they couldn't.

So I'm inclined to think Celuien is probably innocent, at the moment, if only for that reason.

[The Saucepan Man]

*The Viscount Kettle watches a clump of tumbleweed drift slowly through Eaumor*

Anyone else actually interested in finding these Wolves?

Aiwendil has analysed Glirdan, but I also wanted to do so myself. Some of my thoughts are similar to his, but not all.

Day 1

Originally Posted by Glirdan @ #4

Now, I must say that we come up with a strategy and I have one already. It's simple: we get rid of the quiet people. ( ). They cannot be trusted.

Our one dead Wolf was a noisy one and I suspect that at least one of the remaining two has been quite vocal too. That makes Glirdan’s apparently “jokey” suggestion to kill the quiet ones interesting, as it may have been a clumsy attempt to divert the village’s gaze from his friends. Then again, Glirdan has been very quiet himself for most of our time here. Not sure what to make of his suggestion to lynch the quiet ones in light of that. The likeliest explanation, I suppose, is that he did indeed say it simply to provoke a reaction, as he later claimed.

He voted early for Gil-Galad on Day 1 (#15). I have said earlier why this inclined me to think him probably innocent. It is possible, however, that a Wolfish Glirdan voted for Gil to try to kick off a Gil bandwagon, the Wolves having identified him as an potential Day 1 target for lynching.

Eomer defended Glirdan early on, when it looked possible that Glirdan might be lynched:

Originally Posted by Eomer @ #59

We have to remember that Glirdan had to vote early. I must get that in as it looks like I shall also have to vote early. My guess is that he chose to vote for Gil because Gil is notoriously quiet and hard to decipher anyway ... It might be a tremendous place for Glirdan to hide (the very first vote) but I am definitely leaning towards Glirdan's innocence; ...

Day 2

He voted early again on Day 2, this time for Lhuna. This was after he had made a quite a strong case against her, based mainly on her reaction to his suggestion to lynch the quiet ones (which I must admit made me suspicious of her at the time) and for her vote for him (#130, #132, #147). Again, I had thought it spoke in favour of his innocence, but now I am wondering whether the Wolves hd targetted Lhuna as a possible Day 2’s lynch victim. Eomer voted for her too, but would two Wolves be caught in a lynch mob?

Days 3 and 4

Other than the withdrawn vote for littlemanpoet on Day 3 (#280), he has not voted (and hardly contributed) since.

In his analysis on Day 3, Eomer said that he was inclined to trust Glirdan (#300). That could speak in Glirdan’s favour, as I suspect that Eomer would have avoided associating himself with a fellow Wolf at that time.

My conclusion on Glirdan is much the same as Aiwendil's. He doesn’t look particularly suspicious, but there are some things there which might suggest Wolfishness. There are others looking far more lycanthropic to me, though.

Edit: Cross-posted with Aiwendil, hence the tumbleweed.

[Aiwendil]

Well, I've got to go (cook business). I'm in something of a quandry regarding whom to vote for.

Tar and Farael both still look very suspicious to me. But Eomer's apparent attempt to save himself by getting Tar lynched has really shaken my confidence in her guilt. Farael's self-vote has also made me wonder about him.

I really wish that there were more activity toDAY. We have little more to go on now than we did at the beginning of the DAY.

All right, I guess I'll vote for:

++Farael

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I really wish that there were more activity toDAY.

You are not alone in that. I too must vote soon and would have preferred to have the benefit of others' thoughts before doing so.

I know it duplicates some of what Aiwendil did, but I did much if the leg-work while reviewing the others, so here are my thoughts on the remaining non-Eomer voter from yesterday, Celuien.

Day 1

I have already commented a few times on her attempt to divert attention away from herself when accused (#23). She was the only one to react in such a way to morm’s random accusations. I now tend to think that it was just part of the general Day 1 discourse, though.

She got involved in the Seer talk on Day 1 (#70 and #91), but doesn’t look particularly suspicious for it.

Voted for an innocent Gil-Galad on Day 1, citing Kath’s reasoning (#93). It might be seen as Wolfish to rely on another villager’s reasoning when casting a vote. But this looks to me the least likely of the Gil votes to have been cast by a Wolf.

Day 2

Voted for Garin, but I am not sure that tells us much. Nothing else really stands out about her from Day 2.

Day 3

In his villager analysis (#300), Eomer expressed surprise that she was under so much suspicion. I am not sure that she was at the time and, in those circumstances, I doubt Eomer would have said this about a fellow Wolf as it would only draw unnecessary attention to her (although see comment on Eomer’s post #365 below).

In her own analysis on Day 3 (#303), she was rather non-committal, except with regard to Garin, whom she voted for, giving him one vote. Of all the votes for Garin that day, it looks the least suspicious to me.

Day 4

Celuien thought it more likely that spawn’s death was intended to set Eomer up, but she said that she was not prepared to discount him (#335). Hedging her bets or innocent uncertainty? More likely the latter, I think.

Suggested that, if Eomer was a Wolf, Farael was probably not and vice versa (#348). Like Aiwendil, I am not sure that I agree with that and it could have been an attempt to protect a Wolfish Farael. She wasn’t entirely comfortable with the “Wereomer theory”, which doesn’t look to me the sort of thing a Wolf would say at that time, given that Eomer was in serious danger of being lynched.

Named as a possible Wolf by Eomer (#365), an interesting turnaround from his Day 3 surprise that she was under suspicion. Possibly, an attempt to put some distance between them.

Defended her non-committal stance and said that she did not expect to vote for Eomer (#366).

I have commented already on the exchange between Eomer and Celuien at the end of Day 4 (#400, #401) which led to her vote for tar. I am far inclined to see it more as suggesting her innocence than any complicity between them.

Not a lot to go on there, but what there is does not look particularly Wolfish to me. She’s not off my radar yet, but I am more inclined to think her innocent than any of the other non-Eomer voters.

[The Saucepan Man]

Sorting through my thoughts, this is where they get me. I have concentrated mainly on those who did not vote for Eomer yesterday, because I am certain that there is a Wolf there. More likely than not, there are two.

Main suspects: Farael, tar-ancalime

Making me nervous: Kath, Aiwendil, Glirdan

Probably innocent: mormegil, Nilp, Celuien

Innocent: Formendacil

Farael still looks very suspicious to me, but I am concerned by his vote for himself. It is very similar to what lmp did, and that makes me nervous.

However, it seems to me that there is much to suggest that tar-ancalime is a Wolf and her failure to contribute anything of great substance today, without explanation, concerns me greatly. It also seems sensible to me to keep the votes spread between my two prime suspects, as if one of them is innocent and there is a Wolf yet to vote, it may serve to keep them on their toes and possibly provide the village with something more to go on tomorrow.

++ TAR-ANCALIME

[Formendacil]

Well, I'm back...

For an hour or so, at least.

However, there's very little to catch up on in the village. Little enough that, upon reading it all, I think most of it's still in my head- a rare occurence, that.

On the face of it, I'm inclined to think that Tar-Ancalime's vote for Glirdan is incriminating. It's very thrown-away feeling, to me anyway. Why vote for Glirdan? Thus far, he has been quiet, yes, and therefore suspicion-inducing, but I wouldn't say that he seriously heads up the suspicion lists for the rest of us.

Tar-Ancalime shall, probably, get my vote. But I have an hour yet. Let us wait and see...

[Formendacil]

.... and no one else has posted....

How dreary these games are after the first few action-packed days. 'Tis as if all the good villagers up and die!

Well, this being Ash Wednesday and all, perhaps a certain quietness is in order, although it's rather boring. I shall have to return to work ere long, and in lack of any further conversation, I must vote:

++ Tar-Ancalime

[mormegil]

I still need to read the last three posts but I still wanted to give my opinion on a topic that has been fairly recurring today. Would wolf Eomer willingly vote for a fellow fiend? YES! and there is precendent in his bloodline. Think about it, who were the two most likely candidates of the day? Eomer and Tar-a, of course. Now what would be one of the ways to help make the other look innocent? Have a wolf go after another wolf, that way we all will think that they wouldn't do it. I'm not convinced at all. My guess is that tar-a was forced, due to circumstance, to vote early, Eomer say the tide turning against tar-a and him and decided that the strategy of wolf-on-wolf voting would be best suited here. Both could not die and whoever is left would look more innocent.

The Celuien quandry has me perplexed. When Aiwendil asked if they could have planned such a thing in advance, no I don't but they could have had some plans along those lines to be implemented in dire straights. Or it could have been impromptu, as I believe both of them are intelligent and quick enough to pull off. However it would have to be a very good act on Celuien's part to pull it off. Still I'm unsure.

My opinion of Aiwendil is that he's more innocent today than yesterday and I appreciate SpM's analysis of him however I cannot shake the problematic defense of Eomer and the 'saving votes' I noted earlier.

[mormegil]

Voting so far
Farael for Farael (but it wasn't bolded? Does that matter?)
tar-a for Glirdan
Nilp for tar-a
Aiwendil for Farael
SpM for tar-a
Formendacil for tar-a


Totals
tar-a-3
Farael-2
Glirdan-1


Have not voted yet
Mormegil
Glirdan
Kath
Celuien

If I vote tar-a it will more or less seal her fate, however if I vote Farael it might cause a wolf, if they haven't voted change the lead and depending upon the outcome we might get more info to go on.

I will wait a while longer if I can.

[Kath]

I'm going to vote

++tar-a

I'm not sure myself that she is a wolf, but it seems that the roles of others may be clarified, or at least helped along in that regard, if she is killed. And if she is a wolf then even better.

[mormegil]

++Farael

Kath's vote sealed the deal for me. I'm not sure what to make of her vote.

[Shelob]

(As compared to the other days this one has been rather {read: very} quiet. Only during the morning was there anything resembling the heated discussions of previous days.)

Farael: I fear I’ve done nothing but distract the village, if it helps in any way I volunteer myself to be today’s lynching candidate.
Saucepan Man: I’m not quite sure what to make of that…
Formendacil: No kidding, it makes me think that he’s innocent though…no, wait, he might be a wolf who wants us to think that he’s innocent…
Tar: Perhaps, but I’m more worried about Glirdan, he’s been too quiet for my liking.
Nilp: But other than that he’s not really that suspicious. Now you on the other hand, you’re very suspicious.

(Insert tumbleweed here.)

Aiwendil: So….any conclusions?
Mormegil: Not yet.
Kath: I think Tar’s a wolf. Let’s lynch her.

(The villagers gather around Tar, keeping slightly more distance from her than they have from their previous companions since they haven’t quite figured out that ‘ex’ means she no longer has leprosy)

Tar: I’m not a wolf, I’m telling you.
Formendacil: Please, this has been hard on us all. If it looks like a wolf, votes like a wolf and acts like a wolf, it’s a wolf. Even a fool knows that.

(They lynch Tar-Ancalime, the only thing unusual with the lynching is that Tar, upon reaching the steps to the gallows, ran through the village and into the Forest. The villagers chased her for some ways until, as she flitted in and out of their sight through the brances, they watched as an ancient tree suddenly swooped down and ate her. Other than that little incident they have lynched another innocent.)


-----
Living:
Saucepan Man
Farael
Mormegil
Aiwendil
Glirdan
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Kath
Celuien

Dead:
Shelob (Mod)--Killed by wolves on NIGHT 1
Abercrombie (Mod)--Killed while Yeti-Spotting on NIGHT 1
Gil-Galad (Ordinary)--Lynched at the close of DAY 1
Holbytlass (True Seer)--Gloucester-ized and welled on NIGHT 2
Lhunardawen (Ordinary)--Drown’d a muddy death upon DAY 2
Anguirel (Ordinary)--Killed quite safely during NIGHT 3
Littlemanpoet (Ordinary)--Vanished during DAY 3
Garin (Ordinary)--Lynched at the end of an eventful DAY 3
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant (Ordinary)--Thus was the shepherd beaten from their side during NIGHT 4
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Werewolf)--Died without a friend, but plenty of fiends DAY 4.
Boromir88 (Ranger)--[I]Like Corey, burried under the contents of a Quarry during NIGHT 5[I]
Tar-Ancalime (Ordinary)--Made an Ex-ex-leper at the end of DAY 5

NIGHT 6, as usual...and I'm sorry about today's death, but I just really didn't have the energy to put into it.

[Shelob]

(The House of the town’s beekeeper. The bees know something is up but it hasn’t kept them from doing their normal bee thing. The villagers, similarly, know something is up and, similarly, must do their normal thing. Unfortunately in their case this isn’t going from flower to flower, it’s looking at the corpse.)

Farael: Great, the wolves killed Kath.
Voice from outside: (faintly) …no…
Nilp: I would have thought they’d kill Form, he is a known innocent after all.
Voice from outside: (fainter) …no…
Aiwendil: Does anyone else hear that? And where’s Morm?

(Aiwendil’s observations bring a harsh realization to the villagers, Mormegil isn’t actually with them and it sounds like someone else is dying. They exit the beekeeper’s house and follow the ever fainter ‘no’s to where Mormegil has been half heartedly hidden behind one of Kath’s hives.)

Celuien: Mormegil! Are you alright?
Formendacil: He’s got a dagger in his back, do you really think he’s ‘alright’?
Saucepan Man: Don’t crowed him, perhaps he saw something which could help us.
Glirdan: (who had helped Mormegil sit up somewhat) Well Morm, did you see anything, anything at all that we could use?

(Mormegil’s eyes aren’t focused, they aren’t even looking in the same direction. He’s clearly been lying there for a while and there’s just as clearly no chance he’ll be able to say more than a few syllables before giving into death.)

Mormegil: You two brutes.

(With that he dies. The villagers look at each other, it’s clear now that the wolves didn’t kill Kath, their hunter did. It’s just as clear that he had somehow recognized both his murderers amongst those still living, though with his eyes as unfocused as they had been.)

-----
Living:
Saucepan Man
Farael
Aiwendil
Glirdan
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Celuien

Dead:
Shelob (Mod)--Killed by wolves on NIGHT 1
Abercrombie (Mod)--Killed while Yeti-Spotting on NIGHT 1
Gil-Galad (Ordinary)--Lynched at the close of DAY 1
Holbytlass (True Seer)--Gloucester-ized and welled on NIGHT 2
Lhunardawen (Ordinary)--Drown’d a muddy death upon DAY 2
Anguirel (Ordinary)--Killed quite safely during NIGHT 3
Littlemanpoet (Ordinary)--Vanished during DAY 3
Garin (Ordinary)--Lynched at the end of an eventful DAY 3
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant (Ordinary)--Thus was the shepherd beaten from their side during NIGHT 4
Eomer of the Rohirrim (Werewolf)--Died without a friend, but plenty of fiends DAY 4.
Boromir88 (Ranger)--Like Corey, burried under the contents of a Quarry during NIGHT 5
Tar-Ancalime (Ordinary)--Made an Ex-ex-leper at the end of DAY 5
Kath (Ordinary)--Killed by the Hunter during NIGHT 6
Mormegil (Hunter)--Stabbed in the back by wolves during NIGHT 6

DAY 6 begins, Discuss, Argue, Vote...

[Formendacil]

Oh crap!

We're down to four Ordos, me, and Two Werewolves...

We really shot ourselves in the foot with tar-Ancalime yesterday, and if we don't catch a Werewolf today...

So, we still have me, Nilp, and SPM off of yesterday's "Presumed Innocent" list. Which leaves, for the purposes of my suspicions:

Farael
Aiwendil
Glirdan
Celuien.

A one in two chance of nabbing a Werewolf, if I'm right about Nilp and SPM.

I'm really tempted to say Aiwendil. The other wolf I'm not so sure, but I really want to say Aiwendil.

[Aiwendil]

Well, things are looking fairly bleak.

Still, we've a chance. We still have Formendacil, our precious Fool, and a known innocent can be quite a valuable thing at this point in the game.

I'm still willing to consider Nilpaurion and SpM likely innocent, given their votes for Eomer.

Celuien I still think is likely innocent given Eomer's apparent deception of her late on DAY 4.

That leaves me with Farael and Glirdan. I wouldn't be surprised if these were our two wolves.

Formendacil wrote:

I'm really tempted to say Aiwendil. The other wolf I'm not so sure, but I really want to say Aiwendil.

May I ask why, particularly? Not that I don't mind being wrongly lynched now and then, but at this point killing an innocent would practically doom the village.

I do understand, though, how my misguided defence of Eomer could be misconstrued as a wolvish tactic. On that point I can say little more than that I was wrong, though by DAY 4 I had come to think Eomer likely to be a wolf.

I do rather hope that the village is not as quiet as yesterDAY, though I have a suspicion it will be . . .

[Celuien]

I'm terribly sorry about yesterday - I intended to come back, talk some more, and vote yesterday, but I missed getting back to the village (read - my Internet access) in time.

It seems that few of us remain among the living. Of those of us left, I know I'm ordinary. We know Formendacil is innocent. I too have a hunch that SpM and Nilp are innocent. Leaving:

Farael
Aiwendil
Glirdan

I'm just about certain that two of those are the remaining wolves. Of those three, I'm least suspicious of Aiwendil. Unless I can be convinced otherwise, my vote will go to either Farael or Glirdy today.

More later...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'm really tempted to say Aiwendil. The other wolf I'm not so sure, but I really want to say Aiwendil. (Form)

I don't know . . . I have a hunch that one of the last Werewolves is very smart. Very crafty. Why risk a lot and go for Boromir NIGHT 5 and morm NIGHT 6, when they could have killed the known innocent Foolmendacil ( ) instead? Someone bothered to sniff out the last true Gifteds.

For me it points to Aiwendil, unless I'm totally wrong about SpM.

For the last Werewolf, I'd say one of the quiet ones.

I think you're innocent now, vzv, Celuien. (I hope, oh dear, I hope I'm right about you.)

[The Saucepan Man]

This is not good. Not in the least. If we make a mistake today, then tomorrow we will be down to three innocent villagers and two Wolves and staring death right in its big, toothy maw.

That means that we have some serious thinking to do, and fast. So it would be helpful if everyone could participate as fully as they are able. No excuses. No long periods of silence. No self-votes. Just full and frank discussion. Yesterday, it seemed at times that there were only three of us in this village, and one of them is now dead. That cannot happen again, or we might as well give up now. It is only by sharing all of our thoughts and opinions that we will have any hope of distinguishing those who are genuine in what they say from those who are dissembling.

Right. Lecture over. Let's get back to work. Here's yesterday's voting record:

1. Farael for Farael (Farael-1)
2. Tar-ancalime for Glirdan (Farael-1, Glirdan-1)
3. Nilp for tar-ancalime (Farael-1, Glirdan-1, tar-ancalime-1)
4. Aiwendil for Farael (Farael-2, Glirdan-1, tar-ancalime-1)
5. The Saucepan Man for tar-ancalime (Farael-2, Glirdan-1, tar-ancalime-2)
6. Formendacil for tar-ancalime (Farael-2, Glirdan-1, tar-ancalime-3)
7. Kath for tar-ancalime (Farael-2, Glirdan-1, tar-ancalime-4)
8. Mormegil for Farael (Farael-3, Glirdan-1, tar-ancalime-4)

Did not vote: Celuien, Glirdan

Of those still with us and not proven innocent, the only ones to vote for tar-ancalime were Nilp and me. Since I am innocent and I am still inclined to think that Nilp is (although that's a working assumption, not a belief), it would appear that no Wolves voted for her. That would make sense to me as village opinion was clearly turning against her as the day progressed and it would have been dangerous for a Wolf to be caught there.

Farael voted for himself so, if it was a Wolfish tactic, it paid off. As matters stand, I think that it probably was. And if Farael is a Wolf, then I strongly doubt that Aiwendil is. Quite apart from Farael's campaign against him, I doubt that a Wolf would have voted for a fellow Wolf who had voted for himself to save himself. But Aiwendil is most certainly not off the hook at this stage.

That leaves the two non-voters. Both, I think, have provided reasons for their no-votes. But that does not mean that they are not Wolves. In fact, I think it highly likely that at least one of them is a Wolf, most likely Glirdan. Although I am beginning to wonder whether that exchange between Eomer and Celuien at the end of Day 4 may have been play-acting after all.

I am therefore fairly confident that our remaining two Wolves are to be found in the following group:

Farael
Aiwendil
Glirdan
Celuien

And right now, Farael and Glirdan are looking the most likely candidates to me.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

My instincts (or whatever second-hand version of that I got) tells me Farael is a Werewolf, what with his focused attacks and all that confusion the previous DAY.

But since there's that nagging thought telling me Aiwendil is also a Werewolf (see my post #461), I doubt my instincts is correct. Unless they're playing one of the greatest bluffs in WW history.

Glirdan . . . well, we've not been hearing much from him. I understand his RL problems but still, he's leaving us with little to go on. And those little points to a lot of trouble.

More later. I have to go to class.

[Celuien]

Playing the numbers game...

It looks like everyone is agreeing that the last two wolves are to be found in the group of Farael, Aiwendil, Glirdan or me.

Farael and Aiwendil are tied to each other through their early sparring, by virtue of which I think it's unlikely that they are both wolves. But, if that short list is correct, it's a 100% chance that one of them is lupine (since I know that I'm not).

Now, of the two, Aiwendil looks the less suspicious to me. He's been analytical. Right now, the main point against him is defense of Wereomer. A charge of which I am also guilty. Having fallen victim to Wereomer's tricks, I can easily see where others could have been fooled. Though I can also see Nilp's point. Though I can think of another reason for morm to have been attacked last night: a Wolfarael might have picked morm to look innocent, saying that a wolf team wouldn't use the same frame-up bluff twice, then taken the hunter by accident. Morm also somewhat suspected both Aiwendil and me. Either a wolvish Farael or Glirdy could have been trying to set up an innocent one of us.

Speaking of Farael, he also looks even odder after his self-vote, particularly in light of elempi's self-vote. Once it was used by a known innocent, a wolvish Farael might have used it as cover, thinking that by doing the same thing as a known innocent, he would also appear genuine by association.

What to do today? I'm pretty confident of that short list's being correct, based on discussion given over the past couple of days. Given the Aiwendil/Farael uncertainty, Glirdan might be the best choice for today, since I'm not totally sure of which is the wolf.

Unless SpM or Nilp have tricked me. In which case you deserve to win.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Though I can think of another reason for morm to have been attacked last night: a Wolfarael might have picked morm to look innocent, saying that a wolf team wouldn't use the same frame-up bluff twice, then taken the hunter by accident. Morm also somewhat suspected both Aiwendil and me. Either a wolvish Farael or Glirdy could have been trying to set up an innocent one of us. (nice froggie )

Well, morm to me was screaming 'Hunter!' when I discovered Boro was the Ranger. And seeing that at his last post (#455) he seemed suspicious of Kath (well, she also was suspicious to me) the Werewolves might have taken the risk and killed Hunter-morm.

One of the Werewolves is not under much suspicion. Another finger at Aiwendil.

Look good and hard at our good Cook toDAY. He might show a bit of fang.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nilp

Someone bothered to sniff out the last true Gifteds.

Well of course they did. That is surely something that preoccupies Wolves greatly while Gifteds remain in the village. Which is a point worth looking into. Did the Wolves manage to spot them or were they just lucky, as it now looks like they were with Holby?

I have seen nothing which may have suggested that Boro was the Ranger. But I did notice this comment from morm on Day 4 when I reviewed the events thus far yesterday:

Originally Posted by mormegil @ #388

Those are the three that are lycans and deserve death and yes Gandalf I can give it to them.

I did not want to risk blowing his cover, so I did not say anything about it at the time, but it looked like a possible Hunter hint to me. And now that we know that he was the Hunter, I am certain that is what it was.

Which is useful to know as it seems to me that, if the Wolves spotted it too and concluded that morm might be the Hunter, then they would have been unlikely to go after him if they thought that there was a risk of him taking one of them with him.

So, who were possible morm targets going into last night?

Looking back, he was quite suspicious of Aiwendil and, although his suspicions lessened as the day progressed, he remained concerned about him. He also had doubts about Farael and ended up voting for him, although it looks like that was partly because of the state of voting at that stage. He expressed some mild suspicion of Celuien, but I can't see that he had any strong suspicions of Glirdan. It looks like he suspected Kath (and therefore hunted her last night) because of her late vote for tar-ancalime, which he said he was not sure what to make of.

So, assuming that the Wolves did think mormegil to be the Hunter, Glirdan and Celuien, if Wolves, were the least likely to risk death themselves by targeting him, while Farael and Aiwendil, if Wolves, would have been taking a risk by attacking him. That does not mean that Glirdan and Celuien are the Wolves or that Farael and Aiwendil are innocent, but it's more evidence to consider.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Nilp

Well, morm to me was screaming 'Hunter!' when I discovered Boro was the Ranger. And seeing that at his last post (#455) he seemed suspicious of Kath (well, she also was suspicious to me) the Werewolves might have taken the risk and killed Hunter-morm.

I see that we are thinking along the same lines, Nilp. Although the Wolves would have been taking quite a risk in killing morm if one or both of them were under suspicion from him. I think that last comment from morm was the only time he expressed any strong suspicion of Kath.

It is possible, I suppose, that the Wolves did not pick up on the indications that morm was the Hunter, but I think it unlikely given that they would surely have been on the lookout for that sort of thing.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

One of the Werewolves is not under much suspicion. Another finger at Aiwendil.

Look good and hard at our good Cook toDAY. He might show a bit of fang.

I will. Maybe I find it hard to suspect him because he said that I was probably innocent yesterday.

More on Farael:

There is this post from Wereomer, already quoted in part by our departed Hunter:

Farael
Celuien
Nilpaurion


Two wolves in there, and my bets are Farael and Nilpaurion.

I explained before how weird I thought Farael's case against Aiwendil, and the reaction from the village, was. Comes out, all guns blazing, with little evidence (as I see it) for an attack on Aiwendil. Celuien and Nilpaurion (as well as Lhunardawen, to be fair) both shrug him off as likely to be innocent. I think this may well have been the wolf-agenda for the first night. Farael decided he would pick a target and the others (or one of the others) would back him up. The village was distracted with other stuff (like the Seer talk) and would probably just take the other wolf's word for it. And that other wolf is either Celuien or Nilpaurion.

My money's on Nilp, simply because of that weirdness he pulled earlier on—that 'I feel stupid' post. That's not helping anyone. It's designed to be vague and to confuse us, and since he's under barely any suspicion (SPM trusts him because of that anagram, which I think is a very dangerous move to make) he could get away with this because the village would probably say 'Oh Nilp! and nothing more.

Like morm, I wouldn't be surprised if he really did hide a fellow wolf in that list with two innocents. Trying to pair up an ally with an innocent villager. It wouldn't be unprecedented to make the case that both members of the pair had to be wolves, get the innocent lynched, then use that to exonerate the guilty one. Which is bringing me back to Farael. Again.

Originally Posted by Nilp

Well, morm to me was screaming 'Hunter!' when I discovered Boro was the Ranger. And seeing that at his last post (#455) he seemed suspicious of Kath (well, she also was suspicious to me) the Werewolves might have taken the risk and killed Hunter-morm.

Fair enough. If they did know morm was the Hunter, it did look pretty obvious that Kath would be his target.

But I'm not sure that Farael/Glirdy wouldn't be as capable of figuring out morm's secret profession as Aiwendil.

Ah well. Back to look at Aiwendil.

[Aiwendil]

Nilpaurion Felagund wrote:

Look good and hard at our good Cook toDAY

Please do.

Well, morm to me was screaming 'Hunter!' when I discovered Boro was the Ranger.

To me as well. I would think that the wolves must have guessed he was the Hunter, otherwise why not kill Formendacil?

Anyway, I think that our best bets for toDAY are Farael and Glirdan. And I admit that if I were not myself, I'd probably add Aiwendil to that list. I'd be very surprised if neither Farael nor Glirdan is a wolf; and I wouldn't be surprised if both were. It also seems conceivable to me, if unlikely, that one from among Celuien, Nilp, and SpM is a wolf.

The Saucepan Man wrote:

So, who were possible morm targets going into last night?

This is an interesting line of thought. Of course, it's possible that someone whom Mormegil suspected would have been willing to take the risk. But this does raise some doubts about Farael's guilt for me.

[Celuien]

Maybe I should say comparatively obvious:

Originally Posted by morm

++Farael

Kath's vote sealed the deal for me. I'm not sure what to make of her vote.

Voting for Farael to oppose Kath on the assumption of a Kath-wolf....

[Farael]

I think I was misunderstood yesterDAy. I wanted 'out' not because things were 'looking bleak' but because I have no credibility left. What ever I say, it could be just shrugged off as "more of Farael's nonesense". Now it's too late, as it was mentioned before, that killing the wrong person will leave us with only one innocent above certain death.

Given the need to discard at least SOME suspects, I will write off SPM and Nilp for their vote against Eomer. Formen is also innocent, our lovely village fool. That leaves us with Aiwendil and the two non-voters. I will go through them in alphabetical order

Aiwendil:
Day# Voted For Innocent/Wolf/Unknown Lynched that day?
1 tar-a Innocent No
2 Garin Innocent No
3 Garin Innocent Yes
4 tar-a Innocent No
Note here that it was the day we lynched Eomer.
5 Farael Unknown No
I concede that, while I know I'm innocent, you all do not.

Now, one of the main points against me is that I have limited the people I have voted for and thus I'm avoiding leaving a voting record. Well, Aiwendil has voted for three people, two of them the most popular to be lynched and yet yesterDay, when tar-a seemed to be the one going to the gallows, he changed his mind and voted for me. I can see why, but he also avoided voting for someone who would soon be revealed a known innocent. Don't be fooled by my three votes against Tar-a's four, as one of the three was by myself. All in all, only two villagers thought me suspicious enough to vote for me. One was Morm, our hunter... the other might have been trying to avoid voting for someone who would be revealed a known innocent after that night.

He has played an extremely cautious game, and it has worked out for him.

Celuien
Day# Voted For Innocent/Wolf/Unknown Lynched that day?
1 Gil Innocent Yes
2 Garin Innocent No
3 Garin Innocent Yes
4 Tar-a Innocent No
Now it gets fishy... Eomer MIGHT have fooled her... but how about two smart wolves, who happened to be around at the same time trying to flush out a gifted? any way, it is very convenient and... did you note that it was actually Celuien who brought up the giftedness? post 396... Eomer had not insinuated anything about being gifted in his last posts, besides telling Formen that if the remaining voters voted for tar-a it would have been marvelous.... the more I look at it, the less it seems to me it was an accident and the more it was some quick thinking by the wolves. She didn't vote in day 5

Glirdan:
Day# Voted For Innocent/Wolf/Unknown Lynched that day?
1 Gil Innocent Yes
2 Lhuna Innocent Yes
3 LMP Innocent Sort of, but he was the
main suspect until then
4 No vote, he declares he will be away for three days
5 No vote

I have almost nothing to go on with for Glirdan. The votes he did cast were all for innocents on the day of their lynching (or sudden dissapearing) but honestly, I have nothing to work with.

My thoughts
Aiwendil's voting pattern is just slightly better than mine, Glirdan's is outright awful when he did vote and Celuien's is no better. There are two things that I find interesting. First of all, I no longer think that Celuien was tricked by Eomer. Second, look at days 2 3 and 4 for both Aiwendil and Celuien.... same votes. On day 3, those two votes were the difference between Eomer and Garin. It's also very suspicious that on day 4 they both voted for Tar-a which was the second-most likely individual to be lynched.

While working on this post there were several replies.... two things I'd like to mention on.

Originally Posted by SPM

So, assuming that the Wolves did think mormegil to be the Hunter, Glirdan and Celuien, if Wolves, were the least likely to risk death themselves by targeting him, while Farael and Aiwendil, if Wolves, would have been taking a risk by attacking him

Actually, I don't think that Morm was really suspicious of Aiwendil by the end of the day. And as a matter of fact, his last comment hints heavily whom he would be after should he get murdered that night. I think Aiwendil could have still taken the chance.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Anyway, I think that our best bets for toDAY are Farael and Glirdan. And I admit that if I were not myself, I'd probably add Aiwendil to that list. I'd be very surprised if neither Farael nor Glirdan is a wolf; and I wouldn't be surprised if both were. It also seems conceivable to me, if unlikely, that one from among Celuien, Nilp, and SpM is a wolf.

Add our only known innocent to the list and you will have all the villagers remaining besides himself come on, I'm no longer 'having fun' by going after Aiwendil... does no-one else see this as playing way too safe? he is mentioning everyone, so if we get a wolf toDay he can say "I somewhat suspected him" and if we get an innocent he can say "Well, I didn't really suspect him the most"

Right now, Celuien and Aiwendil are looking pretty lynchable.... specially on account of their common votes on days two three and four (mostly three and four), Celuien's "mistake" and Aiwendil's extremely safe aproach

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Voting for Farael to oppose Kath on the assumption of a Kath-wolf....

Which would suggest that he thought a Wolfish Kath had voted to save a Wolfish Farael.

I still think it more likely than not that Farael is a Wolf, but that does give me some pause for thought.

[Aiwendil]

Farael wrote:

Add our only known innocent to the list and you will have all the villagers remaining besides himself

Yes, that was the point. Perhaps you'd like it better if I put it this way:

Top suspects
Farael
Glirdan

Don't know
SpM
Nilp
Celuien

Innocent
Formendacil

[Celuien]

And some more numbers:

Living:
Saucepan Man
Farael
Aiwendil
Glirdan
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Celuien
________________
Wolves: 2
Villagers: 5

Assuming that the wolves are to be found among Farael, Glirdy or Aiwendil, if we kill an innocent from that list toDAY, we start tomorrow at Wolves 2, Villagers 3. But we'd then pretty much know the identities of the remaining two wolves. What we would have to do, however, is coordinate so that all innocents vote for the same wolf tomorrow. Then we would end tomorrow at Wolves 1, Villagers 3, start the following day at Wolves 1, Villagers 2 and win the game on that day.

If we are correct today, tomorrow starts at Wolves 1, Villagers 3. But then if we're wrong tomorrow, we end the day at villagers 2, wolves 1 and lose that night.

So what I'm trying to say is that we're better off making our mistake today. I'd therefore be more comfortable tackling the Aiwendil/Farael issue today and holding off on Glirdy until tomorrow, since that's where I feel the main uncertainty lies.

If I've made an mistakes in my numeric reckoning, please point them out.

*still looking at Aiwendil*

[Farael]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Which would suggest that he thought a Wolfish Kath had voted to save a Wolfish Farael.

I still think it more likely than not that Farael is a Wolf, but that does give me some pause for thought.

Hold on one second... Kath saving me? I had two votes right then (myself and Aiwendil) and tar-a had three... at the same time, there were three people yet to vote (morm, glirdan and celuien), so when Kath casted hers tar-a was by no means condemned... I don't think she was trying to save me, and I dont think Morm thought so... I think he was just trying to keep the options open, as a vote for tar would have actually made sure she got lynched. I think I was just morm's second option and that Kath's vote settled it with regards that he would not vote for tar to close the voting just yet.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Yes, that was the point. Perhaps you'd like it better if I put it this way:

Top suspects
Farael
Glirdan

Don't know
SpM
Nilp
Celuien

Innocent
Formendacil

What's the point of putting it that way? We are all aware that our only known innocent is Formen.... but most of us will give SPM and Nilp a break given their votes for Eomer. It's weak but we need to start crossing names off the list and their votes for SPM is a moderately good reason to do so. You seem to add names back into the list, what for?

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Farael

did you note that it was actually Celuien who brought up the giftedness? post 396... Eomer had not insinuated anything about being gifted in his last posts, besides telling Formen that if the remaining voters voted for tar-a it would have been marvelous....

Not quite true, Farael....

Originally Posted by Wereomer, 391

Mormegil, you speak of the gifteds like you know the intricate discussions they have had. Do you really know how finely balanced this is? Can you possibly understand?

Edge of a knife.

Originally Posted by Ford, 392

You speak either as a Gifted yourself, or as a Werewolf trying to befuddle us/pass on a hint to your buddies.

I wonder which one it could be...

Originally Posted by Wereomer, 393

Let me put it this way, Form: If the other three all vote for Tar-Ancalime, it would be positively marvellous.

Though I am suspicious that they won't show up. Oh dear, I knew I shouldn't have relinquished control of the internet.

And so on. Blatantly hinting of giftedness before I came around. And said hints were openly discussed by both Ford and Boro before I made it back to the village.

It seems very, very strange that you could have missed those details. And it's making you look more like a wolf to me.

I need to take a nap. Will return tomorrow.

[Aiwendil]

Farael wrote:

What's the point of putting it that way? We are all aware that our only known innocent is Formen.... but most of us will give SPM and Nilp a break given their votes for Eomer. It's weak but we need to start crossing names off the list and their votes for SPM is a moderately good reason to do so. You seem to add names back into the list, what for?

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? You've again confused me. All I've been trying to say is that I think it probable that both you and Glirdan are wolves but possible that only one of you is, and that the other is one of the other three.

I think I was just morm's second option and that Kath's vote settled it with regards that he would not vote for tar to close the voting just yet.

For once, I actually agree with Farael. Mormegil seemed to have been hesitant to vote for Farael because of the ratio of the votes earlier. But with Kath's vote for Tar, he went ahead.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Farael

I think he was just trying to keep the options open, as a vote for tar would have actually made sure she got lynched. I think I was just morm's second option and that Kath's vote settled it with regards that he would not vote for tar to close the voting just yet.

You appear to be trying to argue your way up in my suspicions, Farael, which is ... interesting.

I had viewed morm's vote in the same way that you have put it, but Celuien's interpretation put a slightly different slant on it. Kath's vote might well have been seen by morm as an attempt to save you, particularly as it looked likely that Glirdan was unlikely to turn up to vote.

Once again, I must depart for the night in some confusion over Farael. I will be back tomorrow.

[Farael]

My mistake Celuien, but it was out of need to haste than wolfishness... although now that you mention it, exactly how would that comment make me look wolfish? I'm looking forward to hear from you, because now I just feel you are trying to incriminate me.