Tol-in-Gaurhoth XVII: The Saga Continues to Continue quite Continuously

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

++Garin

Let's end this game.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Garin

It is obvious I can say nothing to convince you.

More or less. Although what you have said has only served to reaffirm my opinion. I could flip-flop to my heart's content, if I was so inclined, but there comes a point where one has to take a view.

Apologies in the unlikely event that you are innocent, but there we have it.

Originally Posted by Nilp

The Cobbler has already voted. We could still do a double-lynch.

It's still on the cards, depending upon what Garin does. I am loathe to double lynch someone that I believe to be innocent alongside someone I believe to be guilty, but I will take a view when the time comes.

Funny how this has turned out after all my bluster about lynch mobs and justice at the beginning ...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Sauce

It is clear in my mind what we must do today. Ignore the tiresome Cobbler morm ( ) and hang the odious lupine Garin from the highest tree in the village.

So... no double lynching?

Then perhaps we can hang you both out.

Or a double lynching anyway?

Glirdan -> Garin
Gil-Galad -> Garin
mormegil -> Gil-Galad
Nilp -> Garin

Score: Garin-3, Gil-1

Garin -> ?
spawn -> ?
Sauce -> ?


Edit: Cross-posted with Sauce.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn

Or a double lynching anyway?

It's up to you how you vote, spawn. If you vote for Garin, you will guarantee his death and there will be no double lynching. If you vote for Gil, you give a Wolfish Garin the opportunity to take an innocent Gil with him.

Of course, if you are the Wolf, a double lynch will seal your victory ...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

It's up to you how you vote, spawn. If you vote for Garin, you will guarantee his death and there will be no double lynching. If you vote for Gil, you give a Wolfish Garin the opportunity to take an innocent Gil with him.

No, it's not up to me. It's up to all of us who haven't voted yet. For example, if we both vote for mormegil, Garin can either die by himself or take the Cobbler with him. That wouldn't necessarily make much sense, but I'm trying to say that it's not just my call, whom we lynch toDay, but we can discuss it now.

Of course, if you are the Wolf, a double lynch will seal your victory ...

No, it wouldn't. If Garin and Gil are lynched toDay and both of them were innocent, tomorrow we'd have one ordinary villager, hunter, cobbler and wolf. The villager and hunter would vote for the remaining wolf (in this scenario, me) and the wolf and cobbler would vote for either of the innocents -> a double lynching -> villagers win. Or am I missing something?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn

No, it's not up to me.

Well, your vote is ultimately up to you. You could, if you wished, seal Garin's fate with your vote right now, as could I. But I take your point.

And I agree that there are outcomes other than those that I outlined, depending upon how the voting goes. I was in a hurry, as a result of my professional obligations. I will have to ponder further. Much depends upon when Garin votes, of course. I suspect that he will hold his vote.

Oh, and yes, I got it completely wrong about a double lynch sealing your victory if you are the Wolf. Serves me right for not thinking it through properly. Then again, since I do not believe you to be a Wolf, it was not a major concern.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Sauce

He will, no doubt, attempt to argue that, if he was the Wolf, then he obviously would have killed me, given that I am so convinced of his guilt.

Originally Posted by Garin

I argue that, if I was the Wolf, then I obviously would have killed Sauce, given that he is so convinced of my guilt.

I think there won't be need for a double-lynch toDay, but I can hold my vote for a few hours if we for some reason want to have two corpses instead of one.

Edit: Cross-posting again.

[mormegil]

I'm feeling somewhat rejected and despondent because nobody wants to take my suggestion.

I say we kill Gil and then SpM.

[Garin]

Spawn
Did you not get the sense of irony that the sentence exactly mirrored Sauce's. You people just don't get me.

I was kidding.

++Gil-Gilad

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by dancing spawn

No, it wouldn't. If Garin and Gil are lynched toDay and both of them were innocent, tomorrow we'd have one ordinary villager, hunter, cobbler and wolf. The villager and hunter would vote for the remaining wolf (in this scenario, me) and the wolf and cobbler would vote for either of the innocents -> a double lynching -> villagers win.

Well, with Garin's vote, that now looks to be back on the table.

Current votes:

Garin - 3 (Glirdan, Gil-Galad and Nilp)
Gil-Galad - 2 (mormegil and Garin)

Spawn, why don't you vote for Gil-Galad and I will then wrestle with my conscience over whether to play it safe and withold my vote, or save a probably inocent Gil by voting for Garin?

One question. Are we sure that one villager and the Cobbler remaining at the end of all things is a village victory?

Originally Posted by mormegil

I'm feeling somewhat rejected and despondent ...

Good!

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Garin

Spawn
Did you not get the sense of irony that the sentence exactly mirrored Sauce's. You people just don't get me.

I was kidding.

Did you not get the sense of amusement the smiley symbolized?

I got it alright.

Originally Posted by Sauce

Spawn, why don't you vote for Gil-Galad and I will then wrestle with my conscience over whether to play it safe and withold my vote, or save a probably inocent Gil by voting for Garin?

That's fine with me. Happy wrestling then.

++Gil-Galad

One question. Are we sure that one villager and the Cobbler remaining at the end of all things is a village victory?

Why wouldn't it be? I mean, Menel didn't say this in his rules, but in every other village the wolves win if there are as many villagers as wolves in the end, and the villagers win if they kill all of the wolves.

[Garin]

Sorry, Spawn I tend to be blind to smilies. I'm glad I didn't call you a name.
EDIT: errant apostrophe

[The Saucepan Man]

Garin - 3 (Glirdan, Gil-Galad and Nilp)
Gil-Galad - 3 (mormegil, Garin and dancing spawn)

Yet to vote: The Saucepan Man

Originally Posted by dancing spawn

That's fine with me. Happy wrestling then.

Actually, I had more or less made up my mind already. Your pointing out that a double lynch would inevitably result in a villager victory and then voting for Gil pretty much cleared up any doubts that I harboured about you. So, by my reckoning, a double lynch should end this nightmare tonight. And I would rather that outcome than another day, both because there is little intrigue left and because I would prefer to live.

Sorry Gil if (as I suspect) you are innocent. It's odds on that Garin's the Wolf, but there is still an outside chance that you were bluffing us.

So I will not be voting today.

Hopefully, that will wrap things up and we can get back to village life, albeit on a much smaller scale. Oh, and perhaps we can find some therapy for morm and rehabilitate him back into polite society.

[Meneltarmacil]

The villagers led Gil-Galad and Garin to the gallows. Two would die that Day.

"Notice the right angles formed by the boards here?" And the right triangle up here?" Gil pointed out. "These shapes are clearly gasp...choke...gaggggg..."

He hadn't transformed at all. The villagers turned to Garin.

"This way, Wolf," The Saucepan Man ordered.

"I'm no wolf," Garin firmly replied. "You're falsely accusing me."

As if on cue, his pigs rushed to his defense and leaped upon Saucepan and dancing spawn, while mormegil pulled out an elvish dagger and threatened Nilpaurion Felagund.

Glirdan, however, appeared on the scene. He shot the pigs wih his hunting arrows, allowing Saucepan and spawn to rush morm.

Turning to Garin, however, the surviving villagers noticed that during the fight, Garin had sprouted fur and fangs. The wolf charged at them.

However, he ran right off a cliff and landed on the rocky shore far below.

The last wolf was dead, and the village saved. Everyone cheered... except for mormegil, who had been a Cobbler in his spare time and had wanted so much for the wolves to eat everyone.

Living:
mormegil (Cobbler)- Elven smith
Nilpaurion Felagund (Ordinary Villager)- Escaped thrall from Tol-in-Gaurhoth
dancing spawn of ungoliant (Ordinary Villager)- Florist
The Saucepan Man (Ordinary Villager)- Earnest and learned young man of the law
Glirdan (Hunter)- Crazy guy down the street

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Speared by wolves on Night 1
AbercrombieOfRohan (Ordinary Villager): Treed and crushed by villagers on Day 1
Aiwendil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by a tree chopped down by the werewolves onto his house on Night 2
Shelob (Ordinary Villager): Hung by villagers on Day 2
Valier (Ordinary Villager): Coconutted by wolves on Night 3
WaynetheGoblin (Ordinary Villager): Hung on a +9 Rope of Lynching by villagers on Day 3
Cailín (Ranger): Drowned by wolves on Night 4
Naria (Werewolf): Fought to death by villagers and pigs on Day 4
Márcolië Lamen (Ordinary Villager): Cooked into spaghetti and eaten by wolves on Night 5
the guy who be short (Werewolf): Became the wolf who be lynched by villagers on Day 5
malkatoj (Seer): Blown up by wolf on Night 6
Kath (Ordinary Villager): Almost Monty Pythoned, but impatiently hung by villagers on Day 6
Formendacil (Ordinary Villager): Crushed by falling books due to wolf on Night 7
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Lynched by villagers on Day 7
Garin (Werewolf): Driven off cliff by villagers on Day 7

Wolves: 0
Villagers: 5

Villagers Win!

[Glirdan]

Yay!!! Go us!!! We won!! And this time I lasted to the end and as the Hunter!! I'd like to thank everyone for such an awsome game!!! Now to get to the reppiing....

[Garin]

I'm absolutely delighted that I was able to kill one last innocent before my demise. After the death of The Guy I was crushed. You see, I had been more than happy to follow his voting decisions until the last day. HE THOUGHT MALKATOJ WAS THE SEER AND WANTED HER GONE. If I had listened to him, the werewolves would've won.
How miserable I was after that. Instead, I was convinced Marcolie was the seer.
The village owes its life to Malkatoj and her 'coming out.'
I was trying to control myself in the beginning because I act perennially lupine but that cast more suspicion on me. I reverted to being myself and it doomed me and my pack.
I figured that my audacity would keep me around for awhile, long enough to keep the other wolves safe. Once I was on my own, i couldn't change my behavior, as damning as it was.
My decision not to kill Sauce was kind of rebellious because I don't like being told who to kill.
Plus, Form made me mad because I thought he was the cobbler and I think my personal exchange with him was the lynch pin in my demise.
Before that many of the vocal ones started to think I was innocent. So, I regret nothing.
Anyways, congratulations you decimated villagers.
I never expected to live so long. Thanks for killing Gil too. If I had known how inept he was I would've killed Sauce.
Thanks to Naria, TGBWS and Morm. Next time the innocent won't be so lucky.
EDIT: It was kind of fun and challenging to keep Sauce around, he should feel indebted to me for letting him last.

[Naria]

Good job guys and gals!! After I had died I was root'n for the village!

Great game everyone and Congrats to the village!!


P.S. Thanks TGWBS and Garin you both were awesome pack mates.

[Garin]

Good job guys and gals!! After I had died I was root'n for the village!

How could you Naria?
Maybe your sympathies for the village existed before your death. You should have stuck with your fellow lycanthropes.
I mourned your death.

[Farael]

How could you guys be so blind!! !IT WAS OBVIOUS TGWBS AND GARIN WERE WOLVES!! but then, I had the master list. Yeah, I guess it wasn't that obvious, but watching a game of WW knowing the truth is just as stressing as playing a game. Well played though, For a moment I thought the village was doomed, then Malkatoj saved the day but you wouldn't decide on lynching Garin!! He played a good game I believe, far luckyer than his first stint as a wolf.

Good game you all, looking forward to play one and (or) mod one!!

[Gil-Galad]

OOh Rah! this was fun time... i still can't beleive i've lasted this long... and thanksfor all you guys noting my good Masquarade, its what i do, i act silly enough nobody cares about me... i'm a Drunken Master seriously, it happened to me in Risk...


good game everyone! good teamwork guys, it was all me!!



see you next game

[Glirdan]

but watching a game of WW knowing the truth is just as stressing as playing a game.

You find it stressing to watch? I think it's hilarious when the Ranger PM's the person they're going to protect it ends up being a Wolf!!

Anyway, good game everyone. If you want my list of peopel whom I hunted, it's best to ask Menel because I didn't keep a list.

[Naria]

How could you Naria?
Maybe your sympathies for the village existed before your death. You should have stuck with your fellow lycanthropes.
I mourned your death

.

Come, come Garin. If you had been put in the spotlight by one of your own kind over and over again like I was and died as a result you wouldn't be rooting for the other side? I know everyone has there own opinion but at that time in the game I was just being talked about because of my quiteness and was getting ready to redeem myself in some way and TGWBS hung me out too dry. Sorry Shorty. But it's true. I made a terrible wolf, maybe it was because it was my first time being one. However I am surprised that you lasted for as long as you did, good job!

People please don't turn this into something that it's not, I'm not bitter(anymore at least)and had fun playing with all of you.

It's repping time!!

[Valier]

Aha!!! I knew you were a wolf Garin!! Sorry but I guess I will always suspect you....We should call a truse (sp.?) So was it you who got me killed? ...just curious.

[Shelob]

Good Game All. And I knew you were a wolf Garin, I just knew it...not that it did me any good mind you, but I knew it.

[Meneltarmacil]

Um, I kind of wound up deleting most of Glirdan's requests from previous Nights in order to make room for new wolf kills, seer dreams, and such after the new Day had begun, so I really don't remember them either.

However, I do remember one occasion on which Cailin tried to protect The Saucepan Man on the very same Night that Glirdaga* tried to hunt him.

*Okay, it's official. "Daga" is part of the average BDer's vocabulary now.

[malkatoj]

You fools! You killed Kath! I dreamt of her the night I died and all day I was sitting there saying 'Don't kill Kath Don't kill Kath Don't kill Kath' over and over. And you did anyway.

'twas a fun game! I quite like being a seer.

[Kath]

Well done guys! Sorry I had to miss so much but wow this was a fast game!

Menel, any chance of information regarding who chose what each Night?

[mormegil]

Cobbler was a wonderful role and while I didn't come through from my wolves I felt like I helped some. I was really hoping that the village would kill me this last day. That would have evened up the numbers a bit and given Garin the chance. I knew it was him for the last couple of days.

I attempted to leave a very subtle hint or two hoping that the wolves would pick up on them but seemingly only SpM picked up on them. It was rather fun flushing out Cailin as I fully knew she was gifted. I was hoping and hoping that they would kill Malka the night they killed Marcolie. This role really made me think differently and I think better than I have in the past.

Thanks to Formendacil for providing good cover for the first couple of days.

Great game all...and Sauce how does it feel to actually survive until the end? It very rare that you and I do that

[The Saucepan Man]

Phew!

I don't have to eat my pans or spend the next five weeks kicking myself after all ...

Well, that was - er - stressful. I'm wondering whether it might be better to go back to consistently being killed within the first two days.

But great fun, too.

I cannot believe that I survived for so long, even with my initial ineptitude.

Commiserations to the Wolves, but congratulations too. You did a great job. Without malka's astute dreaming, it's likely that you would have won. Speaking of which ...

... massive kudos to malka. You targetted your dreams extremely well. Not only did you pin down a Wolf whom we probably would not otherwise have got, but you managed to declare a significant proportion of the village innocent (if not free from possible Cobblerishness), which was a great help. Though I was almost certain that you and Glirdan were going to get me lynched the day before you dreamed of me. I am so glad that you dreamed of me when you did.

As usual, I spent most of the first half of the game suspecting all the wrong people and generally helping to get innocents lynched. Sorry about that. Abercrombie and Shelob I don't feel too bad about, as a vote for an innocent is fairly likely on the first two days. But I bitterly rued my part in Cailin's death. I did actually independently reach the same conclusion stated by mormegil, but it was a self-centred view (looking at who might have orchestrated the murmurings against me) and I unforgiveably allowed myself to be swayed by mormegil's confirmation of my thoughts. You played your role very well there, morm.

However, at the risk of appearing immodest, I feel rather proud of having spotted Naria. It was little to do with TGWBS having targetted you and voted for you, Naria, but a direct result of the theory that I posted. You know, the one that analysed the percentages of votes for known innocents. You stood out to me as the only person who had not voted for a known (to me) innocent. Hmm, I must bear that theory in mind for the future.

Mind you, on the other hand, it also led me to believe (at first, at least) that Garin's overly suspicious behaviour and voting pattern indicated that he was innocent. I could not believe that a Wolf could be so closely implicated in the deaths of so many known innocents. Whether intentional or not, it was a good tactic to have two Wolves with entirely different voting patterns.

As for TGWBS, well what can I say? Fiendishly cunning play, my friend and well done to you. I really did trust you right up to the end of the day before you died. I was concerned over your targetting of morm, though, who I also trusted at that stage. And that, if anything, is what really done for you as it prompted malka to dream of you that night. Had it not been for her, we might well never have spotted you.

A few other thoughts.

Nilp I knew was innocent from our exchange of acrostics (the first letters in each line of two of our posts). You could have been bluffing, Nilp, but instinctively I felt that you were not, and was glad to see that you felt the same way about my response.

It was clear (to me at least) from Cailin's death that Glirdan was the Hunter. There was an outside chance that it was TGWBS (because of his defence of her). But with malka's declaration, there really was no other candidate. Sorry for outing you, old chap, but I felt that it was the best thing to do at the time. We really needed as many known innocents as possible, especially with the Cobbler probably still lurking among the other declared innocents. And, hey, it was probably what kept you alive until the end.

Formendacil, what were you playing at? Still, you helped clarify in my mind mormegil's likely Cobblerishness. Once we got down to the double lynching discussions it became clear to me that morm was the Cobbler. An innocent morm would have been taking control, putting forward plans and generally being much more vocal.

And why do I always suspect you dancing spawn, even when you have come across as nothing but innocent all game? It must be a habit, I suppose. But it did nearly lead us to lynch both you and Kath on the penultimate day, which would probably have proved disastrous. I am so glad that I had the time to go back and review everything and finally work out that Garin's suspicious behaviour meant that he actually was most likely guilty.

Oh, and sorry Gil. I am no gambler and really didn't want to take the risk of the game going into a further day there.

Ah well, great game. Thanks to everyone involved. I really enjoyed it. And thanks especially to Modeltarmacil for a wonderfully modded game. Just one little quibble - why'd I have to be an ordinary villager AGAIN??!!

Oh look. Another interminably lengthy post from me. What a surprise! You were so right, Form, when you pointed out that I really know no other way of playing ...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Great game all...and Sauce how does it feel to actually survive until the end? It very rare that you and I do that

Well, I managed to survive to the end of the game where I was the Hunter and Gurthang the Werebear. Indeed, I believe that is the only other game in which I was on the winning team.

Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation? I wondered that night whether you might have targetted him on the basis that, given his supicions at the time, he was almost certain to have taken me out. Two innocents in one blow - and one a Gifted.

[The Saucepan Man]

Who Posted?

Total Posts: 470

The Saucepan Man 76
Garin 58
mormegil 41
the guy who be short 37
Glirdan 37
dancing spawn of ungoliant 34
Nilpaurion Felagund 30
Cailín 24
Meneltarmacil 21
malkatoj 20
Formendacil 18
Gil-Galad 15
Kath 10
Valier 9
Naria 9
Shelob 7
Márcolië Lamen 6
Aiwendil 6
WaynetheGoblin 5
AbercrombieOfRohan 4
Farael 3

[Naria]

However, at the risk of appearing immodest, I feel rather proud of having spotted Naria. It was little to do with TGWBS having targetted you and voted for you, Naria, but a direct result of the theory that I posted. You know, the one that analysed the percentages of votes for known innocents. You stood out to me as the only person who had not voted for a known (to me) innocent. Hmm, I must bear that theory in mind for the futu

SPM, you should be proud of yourself for spotting me and you did it all by yourself....well, good for you. I had already said in my previous post at the end of this game that everyone has there own opinion of what happened, that would have included you. I'm not a stupid person I just played stupidly this time so no need to patronize me with "you know, the one that analysed the percentages of votes for known innocents." I got it. With mentioning that sentence, I would just like to say that I would hate to be an ordo and have voted the same way that I did, with your theory I would be guilty no matter what and would probably have to declare my innocents too early in the game.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Naria

I'm not a stupid person I just played stupidly this time so no need to patronize me ...

Oh, I'm sorry if it came across like that. It wasn't meant that way at all. I would not describe your votes as stupid, given that it is generally those whose votes contribute towards the lynching of an innocent that come under most suspicion. It wasn't through anything particularly wrong that you did. I was just just trying to look at it in a different way, and it happened to work out.

It is so rare that I actually manage to spot a Wolf in these games, so please excuse my (very) little moment of glory ...

[Aiwendil]

SPM wrote:

Nilp I knew was innocent from our exchange of acrostics (the first letters in each line of two of our posts).

I noticed your "Me too Nilp" when you posted it, but I still cannot find Nilpaurion's. Would you care to put me out of my misery?

Incidentally, I find it interesting that even after I'd been killed, there was a call for my lynching. I thought for a moment I might go the way of Oliver Cromwell.

[Naria]

Sauce: You did do a good job in spotting me. I was quite surprised at how fast it happened. I really did enjoy playing in this game with you

Ahh well, now that we have 'aired our dirty laundry' lets move on, shall we

[Glirdan]

It was clear (to me at least) from Cailin's death that Glirdan was the Hunter.(Saucy)

Was I that blantantly obvious?? I thought I was doing a pretty good job, but, now, when I think about it, that post where I put down whom I thought was innocent was probably rather obvious.

TGWBS, you had me going thinking you were the Seer for the longest time. Even Cailin thought you were. She said so in one of her PM's and after you changed your mind of my guilt back on Day 4 (not quite sure of that), I could have sworn you dreamed of me.

As for my Hunts, I believe that Night 2 was Valier, Night 3 SpM, Night 4 was possibly morm, Night 5 was Kath and Night 6 was Garin. The first two I'm absolutely certain of as well as Night 6. Night 4 and 5 I don't quite remember, but I do remember sending Menel morm's name as well as Kath's.

Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation?(Saucy)

I was wondering the exact same thing. Do tell. I was wondering when the heck I was going to be attacked because I had a feeling that after Cailin's death, I was a sure gonner.

Speaking of Cailin, it was awsome to have comunicated with you. To bad we couldn't syncronize or Nightly activities more. That's what I hate about time differences!! GRR!!! Oh well, what's done is done. Great game!!

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I noticed your "Me too Nilp" when you posted it, but I still cannot find Nilpaurion's. Would you care to put me out of my misery?

Post 32 ironically I cannot find SpM's quote so if you could help me out.

I've often thought of doing this but haven't yet.

[Aiwendil]

Thanks. Saucepan's was post 107.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It was good my name started with 'N,' otherwise my acrostic would have floundered.

(I'm a bit depressed: I didn't get lynched.)

Great game, everyone! Special kudos to:

malka, for saving the village--it's (almost) all you!

Sauce, for managing to catch a Werewolf while I was wringing my hands wondering if I'll be lynched in this game.

morm--I didn't think you were a Cobbler until Lhuna told me her suspicions.

Garin, for not changing his playing style, which almost (but not quite) saved him.

and, to daga'y who be short, who probably goes with lmp as one of the best losing Werewolves ever. I wouldn't have suspected you!

And, sorry to Cailín, for having a hand in her death. (What do I have against you???)

(Vzv, Sauce, I see we had identical Hunter candidates. Although malka was also in my list . . . )

Post-traumatic possums. It was fun playing with spawn again.

Poster's post-op. It's official: 'Pulling a Nilp' is now part of WW vocabulary.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Too bad Cailín was already dead when malkatoj declared herself. Since the Ranger and the Hunter can communicate, they could have distracted the Werewolves's efforts to kill the Seer by making the Hunter declare himself as the Ranger.

Comments on that?

Speaking of, I was louder than Cailín! That's bound never to happen again, though.