Scarburg Meadhall Discussion Thread

[Mithalwen]

So the reboot will be early spring of FA20? If I recycle Elfthain, and I would like to I think since he is on the periphary of my private fanfic and I know him well and like him - though I wouldn't have chosen to write a male of that age otherwise - he would be 17 I think if I honour the dates of his previous appearance at the Edoras mead hall and Darker Days.... given his background I imagine he would be whatever the Rohirric equivalent of a esquire would be...scutifer? shieldbearer? arrowfodder? - a young man of good standing attached to a noble household to learn the knightly trade Are there any precedents in this version for such things? I don't want to tie myself in to many knots but it would be nice not to be too discordant with what has gone before.

He could either be a new arrival having started elsewhere - though whether that would be "normal" like medical student rotations or exceptional I don't know or given the time frame he could have been there since 14..

If he would be a nuisance I will come up with someone else..

[Folwren]

Oh! That would be amazing, Mith! Javan (my character) is about 18 now and I'd love to have someone closer to his age. The other boys in the game are four or five years younger than Javan, I think.

[piosenniel]

Just an FYI for the new players in this extension from the Meadhall:

For the new players who have joined in the discussion on this thread --

Use this short Character Bio form, please…

Inziladun – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread when they’re done

Mithalwen – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread when they’re done

Snowdog – place your character bio(s) on the new RPG Discussion thread when they’re done

~*~ Thanks! -- Pio

[piosenniel]

So.... now the RPG and its Discussion Thread are titled: Hard Winters

is the icon for both the threads - unless you want to change it

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

given his background I imagine he would be whatever the Rohirric equivalent of a esquire would be...scutifer? shieldbearer? arrowfodder?

Shield-bearer would be most appropriate for the Eorlingas. What's scutifer?
Arrowfodder? I hope not - you want him to live, right?

Now that I've read much of the rpg, I get it why Firefoot was having some difficulty with the time jump. Now I am too: Scyld and Rowenna had a plotline and to just skip over it seems difficult at best.

I wonder if we need to spin it off into a separate rpg, or outline the events? Any thoughts? For those who have not carefully read the Scyld-Rowenna exchanges, this involves them teaming up to figure out who the dead body in the smoke-hut was, and how he died.

[Thinlómien]

Just a quick note as I'm abroad and just online on my phone - I'll update my bios on Tuesday once I'm back in Finland and have consulted Nogrod about Cnebba and Modtryth etc. I might even write a post then!

Firefoot - I'd love some interaction with Leof and Wilheard! I think Wilheard will need a friend, too, after having lost his brother (poor boy), but I'll get back to you about the details next week.

PS. Everything looking nice and busy here!

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Now that I've read much of the rpg, I get it why Firefoot was having some difficulty with the time jump. Now I am too: Scyld and Rowenna had a plotline and to just skip over it seems difficult at best.

I wonder if we need to spin it off into a separate rpg, or outline the events? Any thoughts? For those who have not carefully read the Scyld-Rowenna exchanges, this involves them teaming up to figure out who the dead body in the smoke-hut was, and how he died.

I feel better knowing at least one person doesn't think I was just being whiny about the time jump.

Anyway, my current thought process was pretty much to just drop that plotline - they aren't able to find anything out and it stays a mystery. As I wrote in my most recent post, Scyld tries to follow up, gets scared of what fingers get pointed his way, and decides to leave. He'll go first to Dol Amroth and obtain some sort of letter of pardon from Linduial to get his name cleared, maybe spend some time there, then go track down his family, and finally after five years now be returning to the hall. I think he might need to acquire some kind of trade in that amount of time as well - right now he has an odd collection of talents but nothing that would really earn him a living, which seems problematic. If anyone who has a little more knowledge about the culture has thoughts, I'd appreciate it. Alternately, if his current skill set would be sufficient to put him to some use in the Hall, that would be cool too but I have no idea what sort of role that would be.

Any of this can change though.

On a separate note, with all these young men running around I think it might be a really good time to introduce Leof's now 18 year old sister...

[Folwren]

I didn't know Leof had a sister! Sounds like fun.

I was thinking it's about time Thornden found himself a wife. He might never marry, though, because he'd be one to fall slowly in love, and he hasn't shown any sign of liking any of the girls currently at the Hall.

For the record, I didn't think you were being whiny about it, Firefoot.

K, Lommy, what happened to Wilheard's brother? Wilheard and Wulfric were Athanar's sons, right? I know there was some discussion of them above that I missed.

[Mithalwen]

Scutifer is of similar etymology to Esquire also meaning shield bearer I found it when looking for a less French alternative to Esquire but it is not unfrench enough really being so latinate... Armiger (armour bearer, senior esquire) has the same problem. Of course it may not be appropriate to translate too closely the chivalric tradition but the Rohirrim clearly trained ... some may be born fighters but soldiers have to be made.

And yes I want him to live, I am fairly hopefuk he will get to grow old on his beloved farm eventually but I don't know so much what happens to him in the meantime.

[Folwren]

I am leaving today for a long trip. I won't be on the Barrow Downs for a few weeks. Carry on without me! I hope it all gets started in my absence! I'm excited.

[littlemanpoet]

Firefoot and I have decided that Scyld's and Rowenna's efforts to uncover the identity and murderer of the dead man found in the curing shed did not turn out: all leads led to dead ends.

What I know, then, is that Scyld is absent from Scarburg for a few years; is that sudden and unexplained, or not? I don't know, that's up to Firefoot.

During this time, I presume that Rowenna will have stayed at Scarburg; she has no reason to go anywhere else, unless Scyld had told her of his plans, in which case she might have been tempted to join him, but probably not as he has not yet given her enough reason to trust him enough.

So Rowenna stays at Scarburg, and also remains unwed as she is unwilling to marry anyone at all, deeming none of the men quite to her liking. Whether she admits it to herself or not, this is because she is comparing all men to Scyld and finds them wanting.

Meanwhile, she has become as close to Saeryn as she is capable of doing, and has served as one of the babysitters for the twins. Has she been the only one? Has she made it so by alienating everyone else from the task? If so, could her influence be one reason why the little girl is so wilfull? Just some thoughts to mull.

[Firefoot]

What I know, then, is that Scyld is absent from Scarburg for a few years; is that sudden and unexplained, or not?

Mostly. He's not going to leave unannounced because he's not such a good woodsman that he'll want to leave without good provisions. I think he will say to Rowenna something along the lines of, "I talked to some of those living nearby and could find nothing out about the fire or the body, but I did find out about some things from my past that I need to see to. I'll be gone for a while, but I plan to return. See ya, bye." If you want to co-write some dialogue, let me know; otherwise I can let you know what I actually come up with when I write the post - this week sometime (this weekend was Leof and Cerwyn's turn, so they're ready to go now). I think he could be enticed to tell her about the letter from his brother as well.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I think he will say to Rowenna something along the lines of, "I talked to some of those living nearby and could find nothing out about the fire or the body, but I did find out about some things from my past that I need to see to. I'll be gone for a while, but I plan to return. See ya, bye." If you want to co-write some dialogue, let me know; I can let you know what I actually come up with when I write the post - I think he could be enticed to tell her about the letter from his brother as well.

What say we co-write the dialogue on the Scarburg thread?

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

What say we co-write the dialogue on the Scarburg thread?

Sounds good.

[Nogrod]

I managed to contact Celuien on Fb and she promised to tell what she thinks about her characters' (Garstan, Garmund & Leothern) fate soon enough.

That said, are there any ideas coming from those still writing as if any of their characters might be dead or just gone, or are all the characters still alive and around?

I like the idea that the "mystery of the dead body" remains a mystery - there's some fodder we could come back later on if we came up with a way to integrate it back to the storyline. And if not... well then it remains a mystery.

And cool you guys are making this Rowenna & Scyld stuff. I think that's the right way to address any things that would be left unsaid and undone otherwise.


Then some practical questions.

1. What do you think lmp: would you like to write the "offiicial narrative" for the jump or should I do it (as my last duty as the caretaker of the earlier thread), or should we do it together?

With the last option, which I might prefer (as the full general outline people seemed to have accepted was kind of my making), I could give you something like an initial post (or the barebones of it) for you to then edit, add, delete, change, rephrase... as you wish.

2. Should we try to give ourselves a deadline as to when everyone should be ready? Of course people write when they have time - and they have some major (like Foley now) and minor (like me the past few days) hindrances or force majeure to not being able to write at any given target date - but a target-date in general?

Next week? Two weeks from now? Before the Midsummer? In July?

I'd suggest something like two weeks / before Midsummer. What do you think?

[Galadriel55]

In about two weeks sounds like a good idea. I can't predict when I'll be able to write, but that should give me enough time.

Speaking of which, I just had one more post planned for the jump. Legate, would you like to write that as a co-post? Or I can sketch the post out and PM it to you for editing? What's the better option for you?

As for my characters, Ledwyn would be alive and mostly well. Theolain will kick the bucket very soon...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Speaking of which, I just had one more post planned for the jump. Legate, would you like to write that as a co-post? Or I can sketch the post out and PM it to you for editing? What's the better option for you?

Whichever way is better for you. If you have an idea, you can sketch it out and I can add/edit whatever is necessary.

For that matter, I had a bit of busy time in the last week, but I assume I should have time soon to write down something for my character(s).

And as for the "deadline" idea, I think that's a good idea as well. Two weeks or such would be good, I'd say.

[littlemanpoet]

Theolain? Awww.

Two weeks sounds good.

I like the idea of working together on that big post, Nogrod, and please do start it. PM should work.

[Nogrod]

Lmp: I'll take time to write the first version of the Jump-post in a few days (the weekend the very latest) and we can PM-build it from there.

Starting the new thread before the Midsummer - or to honour the Midsummer perhaps? (Especially if the name of the thread is referring to hard winters...)

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Folwren

K, Lommy, what happened to Wilheard's brother? Wilheard and Wulfric were Athanar's sons, right? I know there was some discussion of them above that I missed.

Wulfric and Wilheard went with King Éomer('s troops) on a campaign to the East and poor Wulfric died there. So woeful Wilheard is going to be assigned to Scarburg to "get over it" and "man up". I smell trouble...

Firefoot, Wilheard will be arriving to Scarburg about the time we're picking up the timeline again, so he can't be friends with Leof yet when we start. However, given that Wilheard is an introvert who loves animals, I'm sure he's going to be around the stables a lot, so he'll have to interact with Leof, and I'm looking forward to writing that. I can't promise they will become friends because my characters tend to do what they will once I start typing but I don't see it as unlikely and personally I'd love it if Wilheard actually made friends instead of enemies...

[Thinlómien]

NAME: Wilheard

AGE/GENDER/RACE/WHERE FROM: 21, male, Eorling, originally from Edoras

APPEARANCE: Wilheard is a tall young warrior, but a little on the skinny side. There's a hint of gray in his blue eyes and his hair is pale blond. The most notable feature in Wilheard's face is an ugly, ridged scar that runs from his cheekbone to his chin and gives his face something of a permanent sneer.

BITS OF CHARACTER/HISTORY YOU FEEL MIGHT BE HELPFUL IN DEFINING THE CHARACTER: Wilheard is not a kind man, and his quick wit is accompanied by a sharp tongue. Being quiet and self-centered, he usually prefers his own company to that of others, and may seem cold or eccentric to strangers. However, he's not as cool and calculating as you might expect, but rather impulsive and even foolhardy. He is a proficient soldier and has a knack for handling animals.

Wilheard is the younger son of the Lord Athanar, and always expected a military career as the right hand man of his older brother Wulfric. Since their childhood, the two were always stirring up mischief and trouble wherever they went, and they were also very close. On their first proper campaign to Rhûn Wulfric was slain by the Easterlings and Wilheard's life was turned upside down. He is now mourning the loss of his brother and trying to come to terms with his new position as Lord Athanar's heir.

Original bio for Wilheard and his brother Wulfric: [x]

-------------------------------

LINKED ~*~ Pio

[littlemanpoet]

Sounds good, Noggie Looking forward to it.

Meanwhile, a PM post between Scyld and Rowenna is growing into a novel of its own, as is its wont. What a pair of self-preservationist romantics.

[Thinlómien]

^ Pio, I wrote a new bio for Wilheard, seeing as his previous one was shared with his now deceased brother. Could you replace the link on the new discussion thread to refer to the post above? (DONE ~*~ Pio)

Also you can remove the tentative comments about Wilheard and Modtryth from the character list. Sorry for causing you extra work! (DONE ~*~ Pio)

PS. Updating Modtryth and Cnebba soon.

PPS. Oops, cross-posted with Elempi.

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Meanwhile, a PM post between Scyld and Rowenna is growing into a novel of its own, as is its wont. What a pair of self-preservationist romantics.

Hahaha, truth.

Lommy, I'm more interested in interaction than it's outcome, so I'm fine with Leof and Wilheard becoming friends or enemies, or something in between... based on your bio, my initial thought is that Leof would respect Wilheard's ability with animals but be quite off-put by his personality. We'll see.

Also, to lmp and Nogrod as you work on the opening post for the thread - I just wanted to let you know that I wrote into Leof's first post for the new thread that he's been working on getting a small horse breeding program up and going at the Hall. I have no idea if that factors into what you're writing or not, but I wanted to throw it out there since it's a bit of a big picture thing as well as a Leof-specific thing.

[Thinlómien]

I updated Modtryth and Cnebba's bios (obviously consulting Nogrod on the latter), if anyone wants to have a look, they're here. Basically, nothing new with Modtryth, but Cnebba is 12 so we'll be up to some teenager shenanigans, and also his apprenticeship (a little postponed because of the hard years) will be a pressing matter when things in Scarburg start getting back to normal.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Lommy, I'm more interested in interaction than it's outcome, so I'm fine with Leof and Wilheard becoming friends or enemies, or something in between... based on your bio, my initial thought is that Leof would respect Wilheard's ability with animals but be quite off-put by his personality. We'll see.

Yes, it will be interesting! To be honest, Wilheard is not a people person, so his initial reaction to Leof is likely to be indifference. We'll see where it goes from there...

[Nogrod]

Jumping to the present Mead Hall from late year 15 to spring 19... (only four years!!!) So this is my first version of it - and I will send it to lmp to especially add things from the POV of the Mead Hall itself and to correct / change any bad ideas I have not thought through - and to make it a more consistent narrative.

But now is the time to say your word for what happens. These could be the general outlines, but what say you?


~*~

Year 16 of the Fourth Age saw the finishing of the Mead Hall. Not all wounds were healed inside the Mead Hall but with Saeryn giving birth to twins even those discrepancies seemed to be set aside by most people for the time being. It did help the two lords seemed to get along well enough and seemed content with a kind of sharing of responsibilities. Lord Eodwine still being convalescent and a father of the newborn it was just natural lord Athanar took care of most of the things at the Mead Hall – but it seemed he was actually hearing lord Eodwine with his decisions. And that helped many original Mead Hall residents to trust him a bit more.

The summer then was far busier anyone could have expected. With king Elessar’s trip to lake Evendim all the areas under the rule of the king received a host of visitors taking their trips to areas they had never ventured as they were deemed safer with the king himself showing it was safe to take the road. The Scarburgians were even forced to build a two-storey shed for visitors who were happy with a more modest accomodation.

The local lords saw this as an opportunity to thrive and lost their interest in the Mead Hall – and the people of the Mead Hall just had no time to worry about the local lords in turn.


As the spring of year 17 of the Fourth Age came on it carried with it troublesome news. There were increasing number of reports of raids by Easterling tribesmen and groups of orcs from Wold, East Emnet and North Marches.

King Eomer wasted no time but called for a partial muster of northern and north-eastern Rohan to face the challenge. As the most senior commander of the region lord Athanar was called to lead the party of the rohirrim from Mid-Emnet – and was summoned to take most of his men with some of lord Eodwine’s soldiers as well. His sons Wulfric and Wilheard were mustered too alongside most of the local lords and their sons.

Lord Eodwine had not fully recovered but was forced to take the full responsinbility of the Mead Hall once again – with only a handful of active-duty soldiers left to defend the Mead Hall.

[A group of scattered easterlings flee away from the battle in East Emnet and will cause trouble at the Mead Hall which the deplenished Mead Hall wins?]

The riders of Riddermark did drive the scattered enemies away from the eastern parts of Rohan but before they could return more serious news were brought to Edoras. King Elessar had come back from the north and was building an army to ride north-east, to Rhûn, to fight the source of the raiders that festered the eastern borderlands of Gondor as well – and of which the raiders to northern Rohan were only a small part.

Lord Athanar and his troops were mustered with the larger call to arms and they rode beside king Eomer to the east led by the high king Elessar himself and his Gondorian army late in year 17.


In year 18 of the Fourth Age the spring came late and the northern parts of Rohan missed their first sowing. Most of the men were waging a war in the east under the banners of king Elessar of Gondor. It was a time of troubles as it was clear there wouldn’t be as much harvest this year. Many thought these were ill omens indeed.

The rohirrim came back from the war in the east in early autumn. It was a reason for some optimism and there were celebrations in the Scarburg Mead Hall as well with so many returning from the campaign – and tears wept for those who didn’t. Lord Athanar’s older son Wulfric had fallen on the last battle of the campaign. [we could add here a name or two from some soldiers we have already named from both Eodwine’s or Athanar’s men]

Lord Athanar had been rewarded by king Eomer for his bravery and leadership in the war in the East with an eorlship nearer his native lands in Edoras – and a lot more prestigious post as well. Thus king Eomer also nicely resolved the problem of the unhappy double leadership in Scarburg seeing that lord Eodwine was good enough to claim back his seat as the eorl of the Scarburg Mead Hall.

But the worst was to come. The men came back just in time to help with the second harvest and everything looked a bit better, but just after two days of harvesting the winter came. And it was just October.

With the temperatures falling well below zero for several consecutive days it was clear the rest of the harvest was not going to be resurrected. Lord Athanar decided that his people would be too many mouths to feed while not able to produce enough in return by hunting or other means, and took a large party with him back to Edoras and to his seat of eorlship, promising he would ask for king Eomer for any supplies the kingdom could send them. He left a few soldiers behind to help lord Eodwine though as the number of active duty soldiers of the Mead Hall had become thin indeed.

But then came the snow. Had lord Athanar just barely gotten away the snow filled the fields, then the forests, then the roads. The Scarburg Mead Hall was surrounded by snow – heaping over two meters where the wind stacked it outside the perimeters of the buildings of the Hall. The Mead Hall was completely isolated from the world – it was even isolated from the nearest local lords and their dwellings.

By time the snowbanks hardened and made it very hard to dig through them – but new snowstorms also kept the surface of the snow treachery so that it wasn’t every day people of Scarburg could walk on top of it either. They manged to establish a narrow path to where they had chopped wood for the buildings but there was not that much wood left.


In year 19 of the Fourth Age the winter took even firmer grip of the Mead Hall.

In February they burnt the wood of the sheds they had built just two years ago just to keep warm. They send a few soldiers to find help during sunny cold days of low temperatures in March when the snow drifts now almost three meters high around them carried a walking man – but none of them returned.

In late March the death-toll started rising when the weakness and cold did their job and exhausted those weak enough. In April they were eating bark of the trees boiled in snow by burning the logs from the upper stories of the guest wing.

In May the spring finally came. The snow melted fast with the temperatures rising above 20 C.

Five days after the sudden warming of the weather the people of the Mead Hall heard a remarkable sound from far away: something very noisy was coming through the snow.

The carts filled with food were spotted first by the kids who ran back to the hall screaming in joy. They were saved!

Leading the convoy was lord Athanar’s son Wilheard.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

.... when things in Scarburg start getting back to normal.

Normal? Normal!?! With Hard Winters as the title? Not likely. Bwa ha ha ha!

Nogrod, I am extremely glad that I left the building of that narrative in your capable hands. Well done! Please do PM me and I will add a few touches here and there, no need to remove a single thing.

[Firefoot]

Since G55's posts jump significantly in time, I attached the co-written Scyld and Rowenna post onto the end of my last Scyld post to keep the timeline in order.

[Nogrod]

I hope you got it via PM lmp as I forgot to click the "get read receipt" -button (without it I always ponder whether I managed to send something or not).

And thanks for the kind words - it was fun to think over and write...

[littlemanpoet]

I got it. I'll take some time with it. But I need to have it done by Friday's end, I think. Much to do after that!

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Since G55's posts jump significantly in time, I attached the co-written Scyld and Rowenna post onto the end of my last Scyld post to keep the timeline in order.

Perhaps, Firefoot, you could add a link to your post so people could click and go?

[Firefoot]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Perhaps, Firefoot, you could add a link to your post so people could click and go?

Post here.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Great job here! And nice post, FF. It's a pity we had to mess with the Scyld&co. - plotlines by the timejump, but hope we can build anew from here (Personally for example, all the last posts just before the 'Downs went down, the whole dead body etc. went completely past me, so in that way I am happy to get the chance to look forward to re-engaging with Scyld and all under "normal circumstances" after the jump).

I am back from my short trip now, so expect to post some fill-in posts during the weekend, and also to introduce my new character on the other thread.

[Firefoot]

Just to be clear - we're now starting in F.A. 19? So more of a 4 year jump?

I think I'm the last person on the thread who will argue with that ( ) but want to make sure we're all on the same page.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Just to be clear - we're now starting in F.A. 19? So more of a 4 year jump?

It looks like that.

It was easier to make the general storyline so that it went over four years rather than five (one reason being that we were already in late autumn year 15 where we left the game so there was not much of that to play anyway for year 15).

So it should be something like May F.A. 19 as we start - and the snow is just receding (well melting away) so much that it is possible for a caravan of aid to come through.

So there would still be considerable amount of snow everywhere (except perhaps the inner yard of the Mead Hall and maybe a path or two to some nearby locations like where people would have tried to gather wood etc. that would have been kept quite clean of snow) but it would be melting quickly...

[Firefoot]

Are we starting on the day the caravan gets there?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Are we starting on the day the caravan gets there?

It could be a nice spot to start. At least quite a dramatic way of doing it?

What do you others think?

[Firefoot]

That is fine with me - like you said, a nice dramatic start. I will probably put off introducing Leof's sister until a bit later though (I've already written their reunion and I think it would fit better maybe a month or so later?).

One thing I just want to question... it seems a little unlikely to me that Scarburg would get hit so hard by the winter, but the surrounding areas had enough surplus from their harvests that they're able to send aid... Scarburg is only about 50 mi from Edoras, which isn't far when it comes to weather systems. This seems a bit isolated.

Also, doing some research on previous harsh winters, the Long Winter in Rohan lasted November-March with Rohan under snow for five months - the winter described in Nogrod's post sounds like snow cover for seven (October-May), so we're talking about by far the worst winter in Rohan's history.

I don't want to criticize the work you've done, Nogrod, since I really appreciate it, but I just wanted to put in perspective how bad of a winter we're talking about (maybe snow cover from November to March as in the Long Winter just doesn't seem like a very harsh winter to a Finn, lol - actually, it doesn't seem that absurd to me, either...).

An interesting point that seems relevant whatever way we go though, also about the Long Winter: "The melted snow caused great floods with the Entwash becoming a vast fen." Seeing as Scarburg is quite near the Entwash...

(Source.)

[Firefoot]

Also been doing some research on hay, and looks like it's a crop that gets harvested two or three times a year, so the horses should be okay, anyway.

[piosenniel]

Just a suggestion, but it might be good if you discussed the new game on its discussion/planning thread, instead of the old Meadhall thread....

Would you like me to move the posts from this thread to the Hard Winters discussion thread - specifically:

from Firefoot's post on 6/4 - #3994
"Just to be clear - we're now starting in F.A. 19? So more of a 4 year jump?

I think I'm the last person on the thread who will argue with that ( ) but want to make sure we're all on the same page."

through Firefoot's post on 6/5 - #3999

"Also been doing some research on hay, and looks like it's a crop that gets harvested two or three times a year, so the horses should be okay, anyway. "