The Tolkien Coming of Age Club

[peony_foxburr]

Instead of packing for the Journey, I've been haunting the Barrow-Downs today. Test post to see if my avatar pic came out [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img].

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

Elijah Wood was born 3 DAYS before my own son(1/28/81 was his original due date, in fact--THAT cut short a few flights of fantasy, let me tell you

(Oops, I'd better delete that "EW Now&Forever" bookmark before the 24 yo daughter sees it on my computer and is totally mortified!!!)

Peony: Elijah is 8 years YOUNGER than my son. That was a big jolt to my flights of fantasy also. You might want to check out "Elijah's Blue Eyes" website for some really nice pics. (My 32 year old daughter thinks I'm really weird!!)

[Samwise]

LOL---I just recieved a copy of an autographed photo of the Little One today. Boy, those peepers are INTENSE. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
But, he IS after all practically still a child... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

LOL---I just recieved a copy of an autographed photo of the Little One today. Boy, those peepers are INTENSE.
But, he IS after all practically still a child...

Samwise: Which photo did you get? Was it one as Frodo or just Elijah? (And he may be practically a child to us, but he's still a really cute child.) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Samwise]

'twas of the little one himself, not as Frodo. Sadly, even though it was really cute, I've since returned it 'cause I neglected to read that it was only a COPY of a photo instead of a real one. I am going to keep haunting ebay for a real one, though, and of course one of Sean Astin... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

(and he is indeed a very cute child...... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] )

#3 Bagshot Row

[mark12_30]

Sometimes it seems like some popular opinion refuses to allow him to progress into adulthood. Fortunately popular opinion doesn't have that much raw power...

I often wonder where his destiny will take him; he has tremendous potential, he's already done a great deal, and I don't think he's done yet. I hope he has the freedom to find out all the different things that he was designed to do.

[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Guinevere]

Very well said, Helen!

I fear that being so famous makes it almost impossible for a young actor to develop a normal character. And having thousands of women having a crush on him wouldn't make it easier to have a normal relationship with a normal girl!
I guess, he'll want to get away from his innocent Frodo-image as soon as possible.
There are so many examples of former child-actors who have turned bad... Up to the LotR movie, he was always under the supervision of his mother, but now...
I only hope for him that success won't spoil his character. I am just too fond of those soulful eyes! He manages to convey emotions in a way that touch the heart, and that's his strength.

[mark12_30]

Galadriel, I know what you mean about child actors. I do have high hopes for EJW, however. He does seem to have a good head on his shoulders.

For that (seemingly rather small) subset of Barrow-Downers who are interested in prayer and in Tolkien both, I think it's appropriate to pray that the actors absorb the very best of their characters and take that with them. Readers have that golden opportunityhoefully the actors are not denied it by their own attitudes or by anything else, but with open heart and mind, recieve the very best that Tolkien's work has to offer each of them.

So many sense a challenge, or a call, to something higher in the professor's Legendarium, and so many do respond heartily. My highest hopes of seeing that manifested among the actors lie in Wood and Astin, for a number of reasons; but I do hope that for them all, and think that many others will to some degree. Far from it being beyond their reach, I think Tolkien by his art makes the possibility accessable.

[ April 15, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Alatáriël Lossëhelin]

For that (seemingly rather small) subset of Barrow-Downers who are interested in prayer and in Tolkien both, I think it's appropriate to pray that the actors absorb the very best of their characters and take that with them. Readers have that golden opportunity, hopefully the actors are not denied it by their own attitudes or by anything else, but with open heart and mind, recieve the very best that Tolkien's work has to offer each of them.

We're not that small a subset. I hope that these individuals take the opportunity to study these works that they've been involved in & retain some of the traits of their character in their future lives. I don't know what any of the actor's religious beliefs are, but as our "subset" celebrates the Resurrection, I hope that the friendships made during the filming and their experiences in living in Middle-Earth bring them to a closer understanding of our Creator.

So many sense a challenge, or a call, to something higher in the professor's Legendarium, and so many do respond heartily. My highest hopes of seeing that manifested among the actors lie in Wood and Astin, for a number of reasons; but I do hope that for them all, and think that many others will to some degree. Far from it being beyond their reach, I think Tolkien by his art makes the possibility accessable.

Maybe they won't be as obsessed as the average BD'er, but the possibility is there.

[peony_foxburr]

I, too, suspect that those with an interest in prayer and Tolkien are a larger subset than one might assume. It isn't necessary to be a believer to appreciate Tolkien, but it's necessary to know that he was one and be aware how that is informing his writing. (Not to mention the encouragement he received from C.S. Lewis)

Good, in a way, that Sean Astin and Elijah Wood both had a chance to do some work and attain adulthood before fame overtook them, and that should stand them in good stead. From EW's comments on child actors, their parents, and his mother's influence, sounds like he has reached that age Mark Twain speaks of where (after thinking at age 14 one's parent is hopelessly stupid)"when I was 21, I was amazed by how much the old man had learned in 7 years!"

[Liriodendron]

Well, here's for another direction! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I was having a nostalgic ebay moment, perusing all things T Rex. Remember that band? I was a quite a fangirl of Marc Bolan. His band, T Rex, was popular at the start of the seventies. (about the same time I read LoTR, I was jamming to "Bang-a-Gong"! ) The cool bongo player/drummer was Steve Peregrine Took! No wonder I liked them [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] There was a recording the group did at a place called "The Middle Earth Club", back in 1967. Hey....Frodo lives! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ April 22, 2003: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]

[The Saucepan Man]

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Well now, Liriodendron, there's something that I never knew. Brings a whole new dimension to the song Ride a White Swan

In fact looking at the lyrics, there's a line that goes:

Catch a bright star and a place it on your fore-head

Hmm. Who do we know that wears a star on their forehead? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Aratlithiel]

Personally, I'm partial to Mr. Spock's fine tribute to Hobbits with his rendition of 'The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins.'

Ballad of Bilbo Baggins

(You guys DO know I'm kidding, right? I'm not really that strange)

Seriously - if you haven't seen this yet, it's a laugh riot. You gotta watch the dancers in the back (VERY Nancy Sinatra). Hilarious.

[Faenaduial]

Oh my Arathlithiel, that is histerical.

I found it really strange that the dancers are wearing pointy ears, but Mr. Spock isn't. (Are those supposed to be Hobbit ears?). [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[The Saucepan Man]

I found it really strange that the dancers are wearing pointy ears, but Mr. Spock isn't.

Mr Spock doesn't need to wear them - he has naturally pointy ears. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Liriodendron]

Yes SPM, Bolan's lyrics are quite "cosmic"! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I've been listening to T Rextasy in my car, and I feel quite young again! There's a bit I might use in my next sig.
......She bathes in thunder, The elves are under her, She walks the wind and has a panther with silver fur......

Of course, the power chord of 20th Century Boy is the the best part! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I wonder who had "The beard of Stars" ? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[peony_foxburr]

Then and now: The Lord of the Rings was cool because it was magical, seemingly without limitation, and our parents were NOT there. (What was in that pipe-weed, anyway?) I'm now amazed by how much just washed right over me then, that now resonates so deeply. For example:the parting of Sam and Frodo at the end of ROTK. When a teen, I could not imagine losing a friend to death. When I did, at age 33, it was all the more poignant because he also could not be healed--this was AIDS in the days before protease inhibitors--and was suffering, and yet I *so* wanted him not to go. And like Sam, I live in the hope that the separation is not permanent.

This posting is not simply for the purposes of catharsis: was wondering how "Tolkien revisited" resonated for others in this group.

[mark12_30]

Peony-- yes, a lot, and I've written about it extensively on other threads... Now if only I could remember which ones.

[mark12_30]

Peony, having given it some more thought, I'm going to say: Frodo himself. I seemingly missed him the first nine times thru the book, when I focused on mostly men (Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir, Eomer.) And then Sam, of course, and I also enjoyed Merry and Pippin at times. But Frodo was the hardest one for me to enjoy or understand or appreciate.

Now everything revolves around him. The Grey Havens chapter used to wrench at me because of Sam's loss; now it's Frodo's loss that gets me. And I think that's because twenty years of life has gone by, and I see the applicability of his experiences, where before they were just a mystery.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Peony, Helen,

The first time I read Lord of the Rings, I instinctively connected with Frodo and Sam and the hobbits of the Shire, at least on a superficial level. I spent a lot of time tramping around the English countryside during college and graduate school. I would look around and constantly see scenery, cottages, etc. that reminded me of the Shire. I also had a strong connection with the message about preservation of the land and trees. (Remember that I went to college in the late 60s.)

The parting at the end did not resonate in the same way as it did later. I had some personal experience with death, but not in the same way as when our seven-month old daughter died unexpectedly. At that point, I definitely connected with the brokenness that Frodo was feeling when he left the Shire.

In the sixties, I was less aware of the religious beliefs which influenced the author and his writing. People weren't talking about that much yet. It was the publication of the Letters that opened my eyes to a great deal of the meaning of LotR, whether "spiritual" or the influence of the Nordic tales.

It also took me a long, long while to get to know the Silmarillion. I bought the book when it first came out in the seventies, but I ddn't really appreciate it until I came and posted on the Downs and heard what others had to say.

The first time around, I also had trouble connecting with the human characters. I guess I saw them as too close to me, too normal and uninteresting. It was only later that I felt some affinity for Aragorn, and the tale of his love for Arwen. (At the time, I was more enamored with Elves like Galadriel who seemed so utterly magical.)

My appreciation for Men has widened since understanding the Silmarillion--especially the bravery shown by the Edain and the challenge Men face in dealing with the "gift of Eru," and how they can step outside the music and have a special impact on the fate of Arda in a way that other races did not.

In general I would say this. The first time I read the book, I saw less sadness and more sunlight. Now, I am sometimes overwhelmed with the bittersweet feeling of loss that permeates the end of the book. Much is preserved and goodness does prevail, but so very much is lost.

Gets out hankie......

[Alphaelin]

Liriodendron & Sauce Pan Man,

T. Rex and 'The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins' - my husband is *still* a heavy metal fan at age...well, old enough to have a teenager, lol. And I had a friend who actually bought Nimoy's album [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] and made me listen to it. (She was a very good friend, or I would have bolted at the first opportunity!)

Alphaelin

[mark12_30]

Quiz time for the old timers! What song in your vast and misty history most reminds you of Middle-Earth? Why? What mood does it put you in? What part of the book do you connect it to?

This came up because of the Nimoy song... (No, that's not my choice!) But, my sister had the Nimoy album three or four decades ago, and so did my HS Tolkien friend. Unfortunately, I can sing fair-sized parts of that song. (ACK! DELETE! DELETE! PLEASE???)

(Alphaelin, it's good to see you in this thread again... You're one of the few folks whose name begins with "A" that I can easily spell! How have you been, Swan Lake?)

[mark12_30]

(I'll go first!) Because of the lines about the trees drawing me near; reflections of my mind; gentle voices (elves in the trees, of course) ; and leaving myself behind, the fairy-land of love, and the beauty seen... all, all terribly elvish.

It brings me to either Rivendell, Lorien, or Gildor in the Shire, or, Frodo and Bilbo looking for elves in the woods of the Shire. (The oboe helps a great deal; for an instrument that I initially disliked, it definitely has a profound effect on me.)

Moody Blues
The Afternoon: Forever Afternoon (Tuesday?)

Tuesday, afternoon,
I'm just beginning to see,
Now I'm on my way,
It doesn't matter to me,
Chasing the clouds away.

Something, calls to me,
The trees are drawing me near,
I've got to find out why
Those gentle voices I hear
Explain it all with a sigh.

I'm looking at myself, reflections of my mind,
It's just the kind of day to leave myself behind,
So gently swaying thru the fairy-land of love,
If you'll just come with me and see the beauty of

Tuesday afternoon.
Tuesday afternoon.

(repeat v. 1 & 2)

[Birdland]

I remember that Steeleye Span's Misty, Moisty, Morning always used to put me in mind of Tom Bombadil:

One misty, moisty morning,
When cloudy was the weather,
I chanced to meet an old man
Clothed all in leather.
He began to compliment,
And I began to grin,
sayin' "How'd ya do?
And how'd ya do?
And how'd ya do, again?

[Alphaelin]

(Alphaelin, it's good to see you in this thread again... You're one of the few folks whose name begins with "A" that I can easily spell! How have you been, Swan Lake?)

Lol, I wondered if anyone would ever comment on my handle - I named myself after my favorite ballet! Anyway, I have been busy with Spring Childrens' Activities :P . I love them dearly, but spring has become my least favorite time of the year due to the plethora of end-of-year things for school, church, dance & skating. BOY am I glad June is finally here!!

Middle-Earth related songs: At the risk of being trite, the opening lines of 'Nights in White Satin' have always made me think of the depth to be found in JRRT's vision: "Nights in white satin/Never reaching the end..." One really never does reach the end of his vistas - there's always something new over the next rise.

I'll have to ponder and think what else comes to what's left of my mind. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[mark12_30]

Alphaelin, I knew that because I named one of my elves "Swan Lake" in The Fairy Wife... Otherwise, I wouldn't have guessed.

"Beauty I'd always missed with these eyes before"... reminds me of Frodo touching the trees in Lorien, on Cerin Amroth, and appreciating for the first time the life of the tree.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Whoa, Moody Blues and Steeleye Span! Good taste. (I had to break out my copy of "Hark! The Village Wait" after "Ummagumma" finished playing here at work)

Birdland, I think Steeleye Span took those words from a nursery rhyme. I ran across them in one of my daughter's books when we were living in India, and who knows were the book got them from!

I know this doesn't sound like typical Tolkien, but since reading UT it reminds me of Turin every time I hear it!
-------------------------------------------
Crazy Man Michael by Fairport Convention:
Within the fire and out upon the sea
Crazy Man Michael was walking
He met with a raven with eyes black as coals
And shortly they were a-talking

"Your future, your future, I would tell to you
Your future, you often have asked me
Your true love will die by your own right hand
And Crazy Man Michael will cursed be"

Michael he ranted and Michael he raved
And beat at the four winds with his fists-oh
He laughed and he cried, he shouted and he swore
For his mad mind had trapped him with a kiss-oh

"You speak with an evil, you speak with a hate
You speak for the devil that haunts me
For is she not the fairest in all the broad land?
Your sorceror's words are to taunt me"

He took out his dagger of fire and of steel
And struck down the raven through the heart-oh
The bird fluttered long and the sky it did spin
And the cold earth did wonder and start-oh

"Oh, where is the raven that I struck down dead
That here'd lie on the ground-oh?
I see that my true love with a wound so red"
Her lover's heart it did pound-oh

Crazy Man Michael, he wanders and walks
And talks to the night and the day-oh
But his eyes they are sane and his speech it is plain
And he longs to be far away

Michael he whistles the simplest of tunes
And asks the wild woods their pardon
For his true love is flown into every flower grown
And he must be keeper of the garden

[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[Birdland]

Ahhhh, Ummagumma! I always said "Scratch a Hobbit and you'll find a Pict." (Most likely grooving in a cave with several species of small, furry animals.)

[peony_foxburr]

Errrm...I went away to a boarding school where there were no radios allowed, and only one record player allowed, in the dorm common rooms...by the time I returned to the world of popular culture, I was pretty out of it. Tell, me fellow COAgers, what should I be downloading from the Apple Music store to catch up?
Finally found a link for "The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins" video that worked. How deliciously awful!!!!

[Mithadan]

Songs from the Wood by Jethro Tull (the entire album) has always reminded me of Middle Earth. I just ordered it from Amazon as a matter of fact, after being unable to locate it on CD for more than a year.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I don’t think that I have heard Songs From the Wood. Hope Amazon has some samples of it to listen to. I’ll have to write that one down!

Does anyone know anything about Glass Hammer or David Arkenstone I’ve only run across them but would like someone else’s option before investing in an album. Glass Hammer has done quite a bit of Tolkien inspired stuff through the years, but I suspect it is not entirely accurate.

Yes, Birdland today we had the pleasure of listening to both CD's of Ummagumma! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] This hobbit was truly blissed. You are right, I have noticed a definite Pict-ish leaning in choice of books and song, it's in the genes I suppose just like furry feet and love of life's simple pleasures. Have you heard Hallaig by Martyn Bennett? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] But I'm getting chatty here....Hard to break bad hobbits!

[ June 05, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

[mark12_30]

What does everyone think of the Tolkien Ensemble's latest CD's? I'm expecting one in the mail any day now...

[mark12_30]

Well, "At Dawn In Rivendell" has arrived, and I love it and hate it depending on the track. I posted this review:

Christopher Lee's poetry readings are marvelous, dark and foreboding, and full of import. He lives up to his reputation here; enough said...
The music: I have heard it called operatic. Not quite. This is folk music. But it is Danish folk music, and for the hobbit sections at least, I find that strange. It is a Danish interpretation of a culture that Tolkien clearly stated was English. I would have preferred a more English style; barring that, something from the British Isles would have made more sense. Shetland music shows this Danish influence, but the Shire is not patterned after the Shetlands.

I will group the songs by character.

Treebeard's songs are pleasant enough. Since I never had any urge to sing them myself, I have little comment.

There is a "technique" which I have heard referred to as Scooping, Sliding, or Cheating: I guess you could describe it as too many slurred grace notes. That technique is used on this album by the singer performing Frodo's songs. I find it annoying and unpleasant. It makes the tune terribly difficult to follow; nor do I think Frodo would have had that style. One reviewer called it "bumptious". I think the decision to sing in that style was misdirected. I will fight through the songs to try and learn the tunes, but I don't enjoy hearing them. I think the tunes will be good once they are simplified and the slidy, slippery grace notes gotten rid of.

Pippin's songs are fine! Enjoyable, pleasant, easy to follow, no nasty slidy grace notes... The Bath Song is good; the Farewell Song is good. Well done.

Eomer's song, in my opinion, is an utter travesty. Instead of a fiery-dark Nordic battle-cry, it has been turned into a keening lament more suited to a destitute Irish widow than a general. I detest it.

The Song of Gondor took some getting used to; haunting, but with a challenging tune. However, by the third time hearing it, I was humming it afterwards. Well done.

Song of Lebennin: again, takes a little getting used to. I suspect, given a little more time, I'll be humming that too.

I saved the best for last: Song of Nimrodel is wonderful! Gently sung in a velvety smooth tenor voice, tastefully accompanied on guitar. It is marvellous. It makes me imagine that I am in Lorien, and one of the hobbits has said, "Legolas-- that song about the singing stream, let's hear it again." It was worth the price of the album.

[ June 13, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Linnamalle]

Who else has the "Rivendell" cds by Tolkien Ensemble? I have "Dawn" and it's nice, but "Night" and "Evening" seem very difficult to get, if not impossible!

And as for "The Starlit Jewel", well... I can only wish! Somebody was asking $150 for it secondhand at Amazon. Eeek!

[Samwise]

"bumptious".

? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] Sounds like he was describing a road, if you understand my meaning...

~Samwise, who owns none of the cds.... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Evening came out in 1997 and Night in 2000. But there is a comibned set with both cds in slipcover that was issued in 2001 called "24 songs from the Lord of the Rings." I found this in Borders in late 2002. My favorite is Galadriel's Song of Eldamar.

I know Amazon will take requests for those wanting to buy the used set (there are three people already waiting!), and I have also seen it sporadically on e-bay over the summer but you'll have to be persistent and lurk. Don't know if this helps or not....

*****************************************

Speaking of e-bay and lurking, I was able to buy something this summer that I've wanted for a long time. When most people buy a first edition of LotR, they look for the British one by Allen & Unwin with the eye of Sauron and the classic cream cover.

But does anyone remember the funky U.S. first edition in hardcover by Houghton Mifflin? They were multi-colored (I- light gold; II - aqua blue; III - dark gold) with an intricately designed tree with mysterious things intertwined in the branches -- dragons, gollums, animals etc. Very strange indeed!

Back in college, I couldn't afford the $5 for the hardcover (don't laugh!) so I had to be content with the $.95 cent softcover Ballantines. But I always wanted those crazy hardcovers which some of my friends had on their bookshelves. This summer, I lurked on e-bay every day looking for the best bargains, and I finally managed to get all three volumes. Yeah me!

If you're thinking of the kind of first editions that you can sell and retire on, that is not my set! They are in good shape, but definitely used, and later impressions. Two have facsimile dustcovers (they look great but are phoney, of course!), and one has the real thing. I went to Abe Books hoping to buy a dustcover to replace the facsimile, but it cost $550. Faint! I definitely won't be buying that...

What was interesting to me is how difficult the U.S. first edition was to find. There were at least ten times as many British first editions for sale as U.S. ones. Either the U.S. ones are scarce, or no one wants to buy or sell them because they look so quirky! But I am very pleased to have mine.

The other thing I managed to pick up at a bargain price was Tolkien's Descriptive Bibliography by Hammond and Anderson. This lists all the different editions and printings of Tolkien's works with all the variations, plus everything he did in periodicals, a listing of all the letters published (not just Carpenter's book), and other useful stuff. It's definitely for reference and not for reading!

sharon

[ August 26, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Birdland]

Now Child, I would have sold you my copies, and the dust jackets are all real. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I had dollar signs in my eyes when I saw how much those editions were going for, but listing them for so much and actually selling them for so much are entirely different.

But I did get something very important from those "funky hardcovers": it was while researching the books that I discovered the Barrow Downs, lo these many months ago.

Child, if you want to know what editions you have, I have the article from the Tolkien Collector.

[Linnamalle]

Sharon, that mysterious tree sounds so lovely. Is there a picture of it on the net somwhere? I'd love to see it. I'm glad you found the books you wanted!

[Birdland]

[Linnamalle]

Oh! That's WONDERFUL! Sharon, now I understand why you hunted so long and so hard!