Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, game thread

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Kath

Rune said this was cross posted with everyone from 244. I would like to know if that includes 244 because that was Kit's vote for Brinn. Is Rune pushing up Brinn to tie with G55 here or did he not know that?

I believe I was aware of post 244 prior to starting typing. However when I cast my vote I was not aware of the exact number of votes for each person. I hope that answers your question.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Rikae does love traps. Rikae was pretty clear yesterday in that they did intentionally set a trap and suspected Brinn fell into it. Turns out Rikae had no special knowledge, but trying to put myself back into Day 1, the wolves wouldn't have known Rikae was an ordo. Brinnwolf fell into Rikae's trap and overall with Rikae's posting yesterday felt Rikae was a gifted, or in the least Rikae was going to be an assumed innocent.

I didn't see the "trap" at the time. Players of both alignments throw out things like "A., B., and C. look the worst right now".
I don't see Rikae being an "assumed innocent" had they still been here. At least not to me.

Originally Posted by Kath

As to why Rikae for the Night kill, I would assume the wolves were gunning for someone they thought might be the Seer. It would seem foolish for them not to always be aiming for a Gifted. Trying to set up frame jobs is all well and good in theory but their aim surely has to be to get rid of the greatest danger towards them.

That still seems the most likely reason to me.

Originally Posted by Kath

-> G55 3

Same issue - this was cross posted. So Inzil didn't know Kit had made it 3 for Pitch at the time he made it 3 for G55. So really, this is the vote that technically first took someone into the lead for the lynch.


I'd like to know what he now thinks this says about Legate and Pitch, especially in relation to knowing Rikae's role now.

I'm not sure about Legate. Pitch looks rather opportunistic if Brinn is innocent.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

If you're gonna stick with that, then you're wasting your Day. I see a lot of theories from you on who is suspicious based on the assumption that I'm wolf, but I am not aware of the reason why you suspect I am one in the first place.

My reasons were stated:

I should have started the day with this, but just to put it out here now, My predominant suspicion coming into the day is Brinn's a wolf. If the DL was NOW, I'd vote Brinn. Based on the voting yesterday and Rikae's death.

After you had acquired 2 votes (Rikae and Pitch) there was a spring of a handful of people saying they didn't want a bandwagon lynch of you.
Rikae Post 245

So, just putting this here because I think this could be important later. This Brinn-wagon everyone's talking about is two votes at this point, mine and Pitch's.

And the people who expressed concern about it are Huey, Lottie and Inzil, in that order (let me know if I missed someone).

Now, I found Pitch suspicious from the beginning, although just for vibes really, and Brinn could have started looking like a convenient vote. On the other hand, three people pushing back on a wagon for coming out of nowhere after two reasoned votes (by day 1 standards) is odd, too, especially if Brinn turns out wolfish or the trolley is redirected toward an innocent. Lottie's and Inzil's positions in the anti-Brinnwagon-wagon are, that is - Huey's is pretty bold.

And as far as Rikae's death, I meant the clear trap. To kill 2 wolves with 1 arrow...is that right? Wait, 2 birds with 1 stone...

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

What makes you think it was "clear" that Rikae "set a trap"? Feel like I am missing something that you (and Mac??) consider obvious.

Rikae #148.

For immediately repeating 2 of 3 names from my list as suspicions, and then backtracking explicitly to avoid getting caught in a trap right after I explained to G55 that my post was intended as a wolf trap. That was ostensibly a reply to Mac saying the group was mostly innocent, but the coincidence is just too much for me to ignore.

Onto some matters today. Brinn my suspicions today really aren't based on anything you said or did yesterday. Your vote is "neutral" in it can't determine wolf or not. In the light of yesterday's posts, your Day 1 attitude of "not being bothered by random Day 1 suspicion" felt innocent. That was yesterday. It's a new day and with more information on the 2 deaths, people start looking different, you being one of them.

Scenario 1. The wolves thought Rikae was gifted. But if they though them the seer, then they know that they didn't dream of me. Really, people. Are some of you really suggesting that a wolf-version of me would be dumb enough to go after Rikae because I thought they were the seer? I don't know if any wolves would be so jumpy this early in the game. In a village of 20+, it would be very lucky indeed if the seer dreamt of a wolf on Night 1.~Brinn

That looks suspicious. I rarely get a good feeling about "do you really think I'd be that dumb as a wolf." There's a variety of different styles and strategies that work. If Rikae was the seer, it wouldn't have been dumb at all for wolf-you to kill them. That fact that Rikae did not turn out to be the seer, doesn't mean you were dumb for targeting them, just means you were unsuccessful in finding the real seer.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Indeed. Can you explain that, Boro?

Yeah, I'm afraid I can't beyond having an intense headache that I left yesterday with and still have right now.

It's generally accepted I was weird as hell yesterday. Primarily because I do enjoy Day 1 discussion. I hate the voting, but I enjoy the banter and activity. You might say I like to "survey the landscape," do more observing of what people are saying/doing, but letting people do it and sort of watching how they play out. There was LGP fake voting, few folks talking about the QT, Mac getting buttered up. People think it's non-committal wolvery ok, but instead of immediately jumping on and drawing attention to every plot I see. I give it time to play out until solid evidence comes in.

What do I know now, that I didn't know then, in all the discussion yesterday.

G55. Cobbler. The fake voting stuff at the start looks like complete cobbler distraction. The 2 others heavily involved in that discussion (Legate and Pitch) I don't see a reason to suspect wolvery of on the basis of the fake-voting conversation.

My point on Rikae:

Rikae - a wild card. I have trouble pinpointing/figuring out whether what she's trying to accomplish is good or evil. But regardless of role, strives to accomplish something.

I know they will always be trying something, but I see little benefit in pointing out what someone's attempting until knowing more. What do I know now...Rikae's innocent. Night killed. Set an intentional trap. Maybe it caught an innocent, ok possible. But there's no reason to think Rikae had malicious intent. And there's no reason to believe Rikae was lying about it.

It would be foolish to just let that disappear/forget about.

But perhaps Boro or Mac has been reading them more carefully overNight. ~Lommy

That's plain evil looking. Of course I read people's post overnight. How else is anyone able to keep track of hundreds of posts while the day is ongoing and more posts being added to it? I have to read a lot of it in the night phase. Maybe I've underestimated your cunning ability to argue with yourself and look innocent. That's a bad comment.

I'm going to be gone quite a while, will make it back around 3 hours before dl.

Edit: crossed posts and forgot to attribute my last quote to Lommy. Corrected

[Kitanna]

Mac
Post #52: Jumps almost immediately into the fake vote debate. He takes it to mean no real votes, believing the wolves can throw votes wherever with no real consequence. He also brings up the tighter schedule for a lot of people in having two DLs. Casts suspicion on Legate naming him cobblerish. Doesn't think a wolf would stick their head out that far.
Post#97: He got a lot of mentions after his original post. Including some "fishy" feelings from Legate and Rikae misquoted him as suggesting Legate was infected, when he had said cobblerish. Agrees with Huin that Pitch was pinning no vote/fake vote on Legate. Notes Legate started going after those who cast suspicion on him. After this second post Lhuna called him scary and Mac was talked about quite frequently.
Post#111: Sees where Pitch is coming from in regards to a post where Pitch pings him. Subtly accuses me of wolfy behavior for saying in LGP there's probably a wolf, but then goes on to say he's also guilty of contributing. As were others who engaged in that conversation. I think he noted me because I said I suspected a wolf outright whereas most everyone else was saying "it's odd, it's fishy, etc."
Post#132: Makes a case for why a bold wolf might stick their neck out based on a comment from Boro

Originally Posted by Mac

I highly doubt the pack would come out in force and steer the wheel only to keep one packmember from fenrisizing themselves. Chances are that one of them will bite the dust at some point, and then people will look at their old posts. Such Day1 behavior can sink the wolfship on a later day.

Then says this

This is what I mean. I can feel a race between Pitch, G55, and Legate coming up, while the wolves are snickering in the background.
I'm not even saying that there isn't a wolf among them - it's possible - but I don't like the way this is gaining momentum.

I don't think the distancing of himself from the whole thing. He was amongst those casting doubts in the direction of LGP and yet, despite his own involvement, finds me wolfy for it. Then continues to bring it up, but pulls a Han Solo "I have a bad feeling about this." I saw a few posts when skimming Day 1 about him being scary, I didn't get it at the time, but I do now.
Post#166: Comments on Rikae/G55 Questions G55 on why she thinks Rikae sidestepped questions. Fake votes self.
Post#196:

Legate seems fairly fine, actually. Pitch still seems tense to me, but that alone is not enough. The way Gala went all out after Rikae makes me think she's innocent. Rikae's response doesn't point in either direction, so I don't have anything there either. Inzil is suspiciously unsuspicious (for his standards). Huin seems reasonable. Boro plays with the pressure-less cheer of an ordo. I feel fairly good about Greenie and THE Ka. Many people are quiet. I don't have any opinion on a whole bunch yet.

Casts some light suspicions on Brinn but it's in a very non-commital "well innocents do this too" kind of way. But does quote her later calling her words very wolfy.
Post#218: Comments on some susicpion throw his way from Greenie over his aforementioned Brinn comments.
Post#259: Votes Brinn
toDay-
Post#303: Believes G55 believed Rikae to be innocent, believing maybe the former believed the latter was gifted.

Now Rikae is dead. Did the wolves follow Gala’s judgement and thought them gifted? I don't see it, unless maaybe if Brinn is indeed a wolf and the way Rikae suspected her set them off. Not gonna put too many eggs into that basket, though.

Why Rikae then, just because after yesterDay they'd look the most innocent of all toDay and thus least likely to be lynched? Possibly, but if so, our wolf pack is boring.

Unless... I'm being framed. By the exact thinking above, a mewolf would have reason to think Rikae really is the seer. If the wolves are preparing my head for the chopping block, I have to raise my eyebrow at those who suddenly suspected me near the deadline, since this would very much play into their hands/paws. *coughgreeniecough*

*raises on eyebrow* I don't love how he continually brings up himself as mewolf and crafts a conspiracy theory around wolves setting him up.

This would look perfect if Kitanna and Legate are wolves together. She’s suspicious of him and defending him at the same time. It’s easy to say that there’s a wolf in that group if you know that there is. Note how in conclusion, she finds Gala and Pitch more suspicious than Legate. Can't suspect a fellow wolf too much.

Except when I suspected Legate more later on. One could make the same argument for Mac. He jumped in on LGP throwing suspicion on the G&P, same as me.
Also says Legate did the same by suspecting me and backing away. I truly believe Legate would have voted for me if he didn't see it as a throwaway and could convince a few more people to hop on the wagon. Mac's comments actually make me think better of Legate. Mac is working hard to throw us together, while completely downplaying his own involvement in the Day 1 debate over LGP.
Post#305:

=Mac]

Except wolves know all day that they have to make up the reasoning for a vote for an innocent and can plan for it accordingly.

This whole debate gives me a headache. I'm not even sure what to say.
Post#331: Breaks down the fake/no votes. Says G55 sided with him, though in reading the quoted texts, I'm not sure sided is the right word, at least not siding with Mac. It seemed more like G55 was trying to get more people on her side about Rikae and since Mac was the only one catching what she was throwing. I'd say it was more G55 tried to convince others Mac sided with her and not the other way around.
Again brings up maybe G55 thought Rikae was gifted. Circles back to "maybe seer-Rikae" dreamt me"

Maybe she got hunter or ranger vibes from something, possible, but:
- it’s not unreasonable that seer-Rikae would pick me as their first dream.
- if you’re the seer and you know a wolf, what do you do? Keep quiet? Drop hints? Go all out and accuse? Try to subtly steer the village into lynching that wolf?
The way Rikae suspected me could fit the latter. Gala tried to associate herself with me several times, which makes me suspect that Gala thought so as well, a cobbler trying to reach out to who she thought was a wolf.

All of this was already on my mind during the Night and now Rikae is dead. Obviously, it’s a bit of a stretch for me to assume the wolves saw everything the same way. But here’s the thing - I got some fire late yesterDay from Greenie and a few. With a bit of a push, that case could gain momentum and get me lynched toDay - and an innocent lynched is a wolf not lynched.

Tinfoil hats only, please.

Mac seems to be working overtime to get the "they thought Rikae was the seer and wanted to frame me" off the ground. I do not like it. It's possible to say the wolves looked for someone to frame up and that's why Rikae was chosen, but I think the more likely explanation is they thought in light of G55 dying a cobbler, Rikae would potentially be assumed innocent. A lot of people were leaning that way by end of Day. Mac's continued assertion it was a frame up makes me uneasy, but I find his behavior Day 1 more suspicious. Mac brought up LGP multiple times, casting suspicions to GP and finding Legate more innocent. But then backs off sharply to accuse me of the same behavior. Then votes Brinn because he didn't like the traction LGP was getting. It wasn't that the vote for Brinn didn't come with a decent argument, it was it looked so obviously like he didn't want to tangle himself in an LGP bandwagon. Looking at the voting table, when he voted G55 was ahead and his vote tied Brinn though it wouldn't have mattered since first vote of a tie dies. I'm not sure how cross-posted his vote was though. He may not have known that his would tie up votes.

I feel like I'm never going to catch up and analyzing everyone is not possible, though I had hoped it would be. Looking at those I have read through, I'd say Eonwe and Mac are the most suspicious to me right now.
Eonwe: His vote was really what gets me. It just looked like a classic vote to keep his hands clean. I want to keep a close eye on him for it.
Mac: His tinfoil hatting and backing so sharply from LGP worries me.

[Urwen]

I think you missed one of my posts.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Boro

Brinn my suspicions today really aren't based on anything you said or did yesterday. Your vote is "neutral" in it can't determine wolf or not.

Originally Posted by Boro, same post

Rikae's innocent. Night killed. Set an intentional trap. Maybe it caught an innocent, ok possible. But there's no reason to think Rikae had malicious intent. And there's no reason to believe Rikae was lying about it.

I find 'It's nothing you did yesterDay, it's just that you fell into a trap yesterDay' quite suspicious.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'd say Eonwe and Mac are the most suspicious to me right now.
Eonwe: His vote was really what gets me. It just looked like a classic vote to keep his hands clean. I want to keep a close eye on him for it.

I can see finding a quiet person with a throwaway vote suspicious, but "most suspicous" sounds a little strong. Is there really nobody in the village you find more suspicious for what they've said, besides Mac?

Urwen - welcome to the game.

hS

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Huin

I can see finding a quiet person with a throwaway vote suspicious, but "most suspicous" sounds a little strong. Is there really nobody in the village you find more suspicious for what they've said, besides Mac?

Since I haven't finished looking in-depth at everyone, no. These are the two I've formed a strong opinion on. Sorry you don't approve of my method for a reread.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Since I haven't finished looking in-depth at everyone, no. These are the two I've formed a strong opinion on. Sorry you don't approve of my method for a reread.

Oh, ha, sorry, I glossed over the 'of those I've read through'. (Worse - I caught it, went back to look at who you had read, found your discussion of Eonwe and forgot what I was looking for.) That makes more sense then.

hS

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I find 'It's nothing you did yesterDay, it's just that you fell into a trap yesterDay' quite suspicious

hS

Sneaking on for a quick comment addressing this...
“In the light of yesterday”...yesterday did not know Rikae’s role. Did not know their guilt or innocent, so could have been a nefarious trap set by a wolf. Now I know it was an innocent trap set for a wolf. Possible it snagged an innocent Brinn? Ok, but I prefer not to argue with myself.

[Lhunardawen]

Okay, let's see if I remember how to do this.

An ordo knows only one thing for sure: xe is innocent. Everyone else is unknown. The Hunter, Ranger, and (may she rest in quarantine) Cobbler are in the same boat.
The Seer knows a few more things: xe is innocent, and at this point the identity of two other villagers.
An Infected knows far more: that xe is evil, that 4 other people are evil, and that everyone else is innocent.

Sorry, needed to review.


No use beating a quarantined horse, but speaking of Cobbler - I honestly didn't suspect G55 to be one because I expect the Cobbler would prioritise playing to last longer in the game over wreaking havoc and risking an early lynch. But as someone said before, there are a lot of ways to play that role. I just can't get behind the arguments of someone doing something related to G55 thinking that she's the Cobbler.


So a village of this size and verbosity is pretty overwhelming. I'm doing this piecemeal for my sanity, so I might be repeating some points made on later pages or asking questions that have already been addressed. I'll get to them eventually.

Huinesoron, that first post of yours toDay -- I can't. I just can't right now. I'll try going back to it later, but right now just looking at it... *brain explodes*

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Very curious about this.

x/d with Brinn

Ditto. I'm kind of wondering how she's still alive. My reasoning goes round in circles but hovers more over somewhere unsettling.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I am a little bit side-eyeing the late (but before the "reveal") Brinn voters. If you were a wolf, you'd probably rather keep the loud, distracting player who is haring after someone not in your pack than keep the quieter player who isn't going to help you hide as much. Specifically, Mac, Legate, and Rune.

I'm not sure I follow this. You're suspecting three people because you think as a wolf they voted for a quiet innocent to save a loud innocent?

Originally Posted by Loslote

I don't think Brinn's innocence is proven by any means, but I do think that the vote patterns look (to me at least) very much like wolves choosing between two "innocents". I also think that the wolves would probably have rather lynched Brinn over G55, assuming neither was a packmate. I don't think they were trying to "orchestrate an innocent lynch" - I think, based on the overall tone of the late voters, that it came down to two options, neither of whom was a wolf. No one felt like a wolf nervously trying to avoid lynching a packmate without overtly defending them, or anything like that.

Hmm. I guess it just seems a bit of a stretch to me because it's an assumption I wouldn't make. I'm not even sure Brinn's all that innocent, so how can I guess someone else's identity based on that unstable premise?

Originally Posted by Mac

Ok then. Obviously Gala considered Rikae to be innocent. In fact, by the fairly spirited way she went after them, she likely thought they were not just innocent, but gifted. What set her off against them was an error in a comment about me. Maybe she thought Rikae was the seer, dreamt of wolf-me (No, I’m not a wolf, but she Gala doesn’t know that) and tried to get me lynched by exaggerating what little could be found that early into Day1? Now Rikae is dead. Did the wolves follow Gala’s judgement and thought them gifted? I don't see it, unless maaybe if Brinn is indeed a wolf and the way Rikae suspected her set them off. Not gonna put too many eggs into that basket, though.

Why Rikae then, just because after yesterDay they'd look the most innocent of all toDay and thus least likely to be lynched? Possibly, but if so, our wolf pack is boring.

Frankly I don't understand why a few people say Rikae looked more innocent after yesterDay (before it was revealed they actually are, of course). Sure, they went toe-to-toe with who we now know as the Cobbler. They didn't know that for sure then. How did that all but guarantee their innocence?

That being said... WHAT. You tell us. Did you follow G55's judgment and thought them gifted?

Originally Posted by Mac

Unless... I'm being framed. By the exact thinking above, a mewolf would have reason to think Rikae really is the seer. If the wolves are preparing my head for the chopping block, I have to raise my eyebrow at those who suddenly suspected me near the deadline, since this would very much play into their hands/paws. *coughgreeniecough*

Can't imagine a suicidal Macwolf but with 114 games I guess anything's possible. I don't know what to think anymore.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If G55 turned out Ranger, I would be feeling a lot different about Steve's throw away.

Care to explain, Boro? How would that be any different?

Originally Posted by Lommy

What I meant by "let's make this more interesting" was "let's see if anyone rushes to save Gal, or joins the bandwagon after me to save Brinn". Adding a new vote candidate 15min before the dl when 2/3 of the village had already voted would have been the opposite of making it interesting...

On the contrary, it would be exactly what will make things interesting. I mean, look at the interest Eönwë's getting now for his vote for Urwen.

Originally Posted by Leggie, to Lottie

You are operating awfully close to the idea as if you somehow knew Brinn to be innocent. Objectively, the idea of Wolves keeping loud distracting player vs quiet one makes sense, but your whole theory stands on the idea that Brinn would have to be not one of them.

You said it better than I attempted to.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

Off to work, will be back with what's left of my brains later toDay.

Not much is left. Nothing for you here, zombies.


Yay one page down!

[Pitchwife]

Urwen, since you're apparently here, is there anybody you suspect?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I find 'It's nothing you did yesterDay, it's just that you fell into a trap yesterDay' quite suspicious.

See, and this is again the same kind of distorting abbreviation I called you out on before, and it's starting to make me uneasy, whether it's about me or Boro or whosoever. [If it's nothing she did yesterDay, then it's probably something she did toDay, right?] It may be just hasty reading on your part, or it may be a method. *ping*

Macs paranoia about being framed toDay reminds me of his overreaction to Hui yesterDay (when Hui was actually semi-defending him) AND what he said about himself being nervous if a wolf.

Originally Posted by Lhuna quoting Zil quoting Kit

Ditto. I'm kind of wondering how she's still alive. My reasoning goes round in circles but hovers more over somewhere unsettling.

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

It could hardly have stayed hidden. Thing is, the only way she could have known G55 wasn't who she claimed was if she was the Ranger herself. If that's the case, why on Arda would Rikae have been a better target over Kit (unless the Wolves indeed were antsy Rikae might be the Seer)?

[Kitanna]

[QUOTE=Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lhuna

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

First, the quote within the quote within the quote, what a formatting nightmare. Second, I was just going to ignore Inzil and hope no one else brought it up. But I knew G55 was a Liar McLiarFace with her pants set ablaze.

[Pitchwife]

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

I'm surprised myself. And if people don't believe me, then I'm not sure what to say.
Because honestly, I had a crap RL day and seeing G55's fake reveal sent me over the edge and I stupidly had a knee-jerk reaction. And that's all I'm going to say. I thought I'd be pegged in the night. I wasn't. So either people believe me or they don't. Either way, I'm going to continue to plug along in my reread.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

First, the quote within the quote within the quote, what a formatting nightmare. Second, I was just going to ignore Inzil and hope no one else brought it up. But I knew G55 was a Liar McLiarFace with her pants set ablaze.

But it is also kind of entrancing, isn't it?

Sorry, not sorry.

How? As an ordo your certainty can only be asymptotic to 100% AT BEST. But I didn't think you would be so careless? flippant? bold? as to post that if you 100% knew for sure, if you get my meaning. Hence my reasoning in circles.

Edit: Or as a wolf, for that matter

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

That's what I can't fathom. Does it give Rikae-as-possible-Seer more weight? Or could it point to a very bold Kitwolf?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

See, and this is again the same kind of distorting abbreviation I called you out on before, and it's starting to make me uneasy, whether it's about me or Boro or whosoever. [If it's nothing she did yesterDay, then it's probably something she did toDay, right?] It may be just hasty reading on your part, or it may be a method. *ping*

Distorting, or revealing? Boro's post (this is #363) does indeed lay out his reasons for suspecting Brinn on the basis of toDay, and if that's all it did, then 'it's not what you did yesterDay' would stand up perfectly fine. But then, after making that explanation, and after a digression onto his own behaviour, he discusses Rikae's trap. I elided the parts in between to highlight the contradiction they seemed like they could be trying to disguise.

It really feels like he's trying to have his cake and eat it too: he wants to argue that his suspicions of Brinn are based solely on her actions toDay, but he also wants the legitimacy of 'look, our confirmed innocent caught her!'.

When pressed about it, he said:

Originally Posted by Boro

“In the light of yesterday”...yesterday did not know Rikae’s role. Did not know their guilt or innocent, so could have been a nefarious trap set by a wolf. Now I know it was an innocent trap set for a wolf. Possible it snagged an innocent Brinn?

Which makes perfect sense - but isn't what his original post actually said. There's a big difference between 'I didn't suspect you yesterday' and 'I don't suspect you on the basis of what you did yesterday'. Boro is claiming the former while stating the latter.

... or at least, I think there's a big difference. If other people read Boro's 'not based on yesterday' to mean more the former, then perhaps I'm just misreading.

Looking at the crossposts: do we really want to be pressing Kitanna for more information? Fine if she's a wolf, but otherwise isn't it better to keep the wolves guessing?

hS

[Inziladun]

My leaning is that Rikae was targeted for Seer-suspicion. I don't see better lynch candidates today than those she might have made uneasy (yes, I know I was somewhat in that group).

x/d with Huey

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Looking at the crossposts: do we really want to be pressing Kitanna for more information? Fine if she's a wolf, but otherwise isn't it better to keep the wolves guessing?

Not so much pressing her for information as loudly wondering how she's alive and if she has anything to say about it.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'm surprised myself. And if people don't believe me, then I'm not sure what to say.
Because honestly, I had a crap RL day and seeing G55's fake reveal sent me over the edge and I stupidly had a knee-jerk reaction. And that's all I'm going to say. I thought I'd be pegged in the night. I wasn't. So either people believe me or they don't. Either way, I'm going to continue to plug along in my reread.

OK, I must say this kind of makes sense, or at least I'm inclined to believe Kit for now. It would really make no sense for a wolf to stick their neck out like that, because

• if G55 died as the Ranger, she would come under fire the next Day, and
• if G55 died as an ordo (or cobbler), we'd question how Kit could have known that, as we do now.

Why would she needlessly put herself into this predicament?


Anyway, I move we leave Kit alone for now. Let's see how long the wolves can afford to let a Ranger live.

[satansaloser2005]

Good morning, fellow healthy friends! Here and reading.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Looking at the crossposts: do we really want to be pressing Kitanna for more information? Fine if she's a wolf, but otherwise isn't it better to keep the wolves guessing?

I brought it up because I wanted to know why she would say that, and I thought it impossible the Wolves had not already been well aware of it.

x/d with Lhuna, Pitch, and Sally

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Anyway, I move we leave Kit alone for now. Let's see how long the wolves can afford to let a Ranger live.

My thinking was more along the lines of she might either know who the Ranger is, or be unable to commit suicide at Night. But I agree with moving on for now.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Anyway, I move we leave Kit alone for now. Let's see how long the wolves can afford to let a Ranger live.

Timeline check: cross-posted with me (6 minutes earlier), or written after seeing it?

hS

[Brinniel]

Commenting as I read...

Originally Posted by Legate

Boro's starting remark "there must be Wolves among these big bandwagons" (while likely) and the fact he excluded the remaining votes forced me to look them up and that in turn prompted me to calculate.

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post, but I didn't like how he excluded the non-me/G55 bandwagoners. Because I certainly think there is at least a wolf or two among that group it's nonsensical to blow them off.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Brinn seems to think Rikae was picked to frame her

Nope, I don't necessarily think that's the reason they killed them; just mentioning it among the many possibilities.

Originally Posted by Greenie

As for scenario 4, this is basically Brinn saying that we shouldn’t look at the Night kill because in her opinion it implicates her, and anyone who does look at it is suspicious.

Twisting my words a bit. I didn't say we shouldn't talk about it at all - just that it shouldn't be the main focus of the Day and anyone who leans into it too much could be sketchy.

Note: I am able to pop in throughout the day, but I am multi-tasking between work.

[Thinlómien]

I'll make another list to address my thoughts about everyone but before that - yes, my comment about wolves reading the thread at Night was a bit tongue-in-cheek (hence the Merisu smiley) and I wouldn't have made it if I didn't suspect both Mac and Boro to a degree, but I'm gonna backtrack a little and say it was a somewhat stupid comment. Just because I'm so lazy I basically never read the thread at Night when innocent doesn't mean someone else couldn't - especially in a game with the qt where your effort isn't wasted if you're killed the Night you spent reading other people's posts. And especially since this village is crazy big and there's a lot to read.

~*~

GREEN

Legate - seems like he and his thought processes have nothing to hide, also like I said the wolves may have thought Rikae was a seer who dreamt of him.

Kath - still don't have much of a reason to suspect her, so ignoring her for now bc to put it quite frankly, I can't pay attention to everyone in a village this big.

Lhuna - I get an innocent vibe from her posts toDay especially, and she's making me giggle way too much to lynch her just yet.

Inzil - idk, seems innocent to me, usually I get wolfier vibes if he's a wolf...? Also I have the vague feeling people are poking at him in hopes of finding an easy target, especially in regards to grouping him with Lottie, whom I find much more suspicious. Extra worrisome if Lottie is a wolf.

Kitanna - I trust her, and if that wasn't enough, my ill-timed reread of her posts yesterDay made her look rather innocent to me already.

Rune - leaning innocent based on my yesterDay's quick reread, hasn't done anything eyebrow-raising since.

THE Ka - she just generally gives me solid, reasonable, innocent vibe and like with Kath, I see no reason to start second-guessing myself about it right now when 2/3 of the village seem more suspicious to me and that's plenty to consider already.


YELLOW

Huinesoron - everytime I read a post of theirs, I'm like 80% "how does your brain work that way???" but that doesn't mean they have guilty brain, just that they have different brain from me. I'm aware I kind give them the benefit of doubt based on this endlessly, but for the time being I'm not too worried about any particular thing.

Pitchwife - fishy yesterDay, then seemed innocenter enough by the end of the Day that I didn't want to see him lynched, then seemed fishy again earlier toDay, and now I'm again getting a good vibe? Ehhhhhhhhhhhh......

Greenie - I agree with her posts very much, but I'm unsure what to make of how "safely" she is playing, especially if neither of Mac or Brinn is a wolf, and Rikae was killed for another reason altogether. (Possible. Like I said, they could've just given "nervous gifted" vibes, and if you look at their posts, I personally think innocent!Legate looks the most like a seer dream. Of course, a wolf!Mac or a wolf!Brinn or their packmates might see the posts in a different light.)

Boro - I was very suspicious of his weird style yesterDay, and toDay continued the same way until #363 sounded suddenly completely like the normal Boro I'm used to, most likely an innocent version. So I'm willing to wait and see how this develops.

Urwen - well, not much to go on. I don't particularly suspect her, but I'd like a clear statement if she's willing to try and play or not...?

Lalaith - still too quiet to judge (even if the reasons are understandable), but feels more innocent than not. However, has fooled me in the past...

Brinniel - not quite sure what to make out of all the drama around her. Her being innocent would sort of make more sense to me in relation to everyone and like I said, I kinda doubt her pack would have considered Rikae the likeliest seer, unless it's something like Brinn, Urwen, Lalaith, Sally and Rune and there wasn't much about anyone of them that could have triggered seer panic. I'm still unsure though because a lot of Brinn's posts nonetheless sit wrong with me, BUT I do remember a game where she was innocent and came under heavy suspicion and her reaction was very much like this and people latched onto it the same way they (myself included) have done now. Not entirely opposed to lynching her (might be very informative) but I cannot honestly say I think she's our best bet of lynching a wolf toDay, therefore we should resist the temptation.

Eönwë - basically everything he says makes me go "yeah" or "fair enough", which is of very limited value in the long run. Need a better read on him.

Sally - as I've said before, her yesterDay's vote says nothing. I'd like to hear more about who she suspects and who she trusts before judging her.

Shasta - somehow submarining despite throwing around quite bold statements. No particular reasons to trust or distrust him so far.


RED

Lottie - got a funny vibe already yesterDay, ignored it because she seemed better for a while, and now she's again looking at things from a very wolfy pov (especially if Brinn is innocent).

Mac - his thought processes seem very paranoid and wolfy, and I do not understand how he's so convinced the wolves thought it looked like seer!Rikae dreamed of him and decided to frame him. If I had to vote now, I'd vote for him - and to be honest I'm kinda tempted to vote him soonish anyway to get things rolling because I suspect him far more than anyone else and I'd like to see him a sa lynch candidate. (Besides, I think we should start voting a bit earlier than during the last hour anyway because then the sheer amount of posts makes the thread dangerously difficult to keep track of...)


So, even if I was miraculously right about both the "red" and "green" groups, that would mean there are three wolves hiding among the ten people I labelled "yellow". Certainly food for thought... That being said, I would prefer to lynch Mac toDay, or if not, then Lottie.


edit: xed with Hui and Brinn

[Pitchwife]

I re-read some people's posts during the Night, starting with Zil.
Early on he engaged in some discussion of the QT and the fake vote proposal, which he argued against.

#54 Replied to Mac's suggestion that Legate could be the cobbler with the much over-analyzed "Hmm. Perhaps." [Writing this down now, it would actually be funny if Mac and Zil were wolves together!]
#82 Goes on to discuss the pros and cons of looking for the cobbler. Disagrees with G55 about Lommy and Ka. Wavering whether Legate or G55 made him more uneasy.
#86 Suspicion seems to shift to G55 who put out the fake vote idea but 'left it looking like Legate's ball'.
#102 Not suspecting me, that in itself alarming.
#205 Boro was creeping him out, but that has lessened. G55 his main suspicion. Wonders about the G55/Rikae altercation. Questions Brinn about her fear of 'walking into a trap' re her suspicion of G55 and me.
#222/227 Disapproves of Urwen's vote, but would a wolf be so careless?
#228 Doesn't like the feel of the Brinnwagon (which had only two wheels at the time, as Rikae pointed out)
#241 Votes G55; her death could say a lot about Legate Pitch & Rikae
#265/273 reactions to G55's fake reveal


Mostly this reads like usual Zil - laid back, watching, weighing things and being mostly unscrutable. Got to say though, I could totally see him as a wolf deciding to leave Legate alone and go for G55 instead after Mac (and Lommy before, let's not forget that) suggested that Legate might be the cobbler (except they got it wrong).


Also, IF Kit is the genuine ranger and the wolves left her alive in order to frame her (and because they prioritised possibly-seerish Rikae), they would want to make sure to bring the topic up, right? So I think my eyebrow actually stands.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Timeline check: cross-posted with me (6 minutes earlier), or written after seeing it?

hS

Saw it as I was writing.

[Nogrod]

Urwen is leaving the game. She is not Mod-fired, but leaves on her own initiative.

I'll write her off in toDay's narrative.


So please do not vote for her toDay. It will be a zero-vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Chiming in, and I did not like this debate at all:

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I third this. [Zil, my eyebrow raised at you earlier was me doubting you should have drawn attention to it, but it's out in the open now anyway.] It would have been very bold of a wolf to react this way to a gifted reveal, but it would have been very bold of an innocent too.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It could hardly have stayed hidden. Thing is, the only way she could have known G55 wasn't who she claimed was if she was the Ranger herself. If that's the case, why on Arda would Rikae have been a better target over Kit (unless the Wolves indeed were antsy Rikae might be the Seer)?

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But seriously, Kit, if that is so, how are you alive? Another framing attempt?

Sorry guys. But you are both suspicious as Morgoth wearing a tutu under the Two Trees. When you mentioned it first, fine. When you clarified that you wouldn't have talked about it if it didn't seem clear that it was "out in the open" anyway, fine. But when you continued battering it even after Kit answered you, I was like, what in the name of all the sons of Fëanor?!?

There is also one very nice option about why not Kit - that the WWs thought they could get the village to lynch her. Or perhaps they were not entirely convinced (to be fair, that comment of Kit's could be read in many absolutely "innocent" ways!) and preferred not to risk it and/or they wanted to see if they can further get someone else to contest it or whatever.

Also, you guys should both realise that if Kit survived because she was a Wolf, then why would she make that comment in the first place?

All in all, your behaviour makes very little sense and we don't like it at all, no, precious.

And I think this debate should never have happened to begin with. Howgh.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Also, IF Kit is the genuine ranger and the wolves left her alive in order to frame her (and because they prioritised possibly-seerish Rikae), they would want to make sure to bring the topic up, right? So I think my eyebrow actually stands.

Also, if Kit is NOT the Ranger and the wolves decided to sacrifice her in order to draw out the real Ranger, I would implore the real Ranger to NOT come out just to expose her. I agree that I am hugely suspicious of Zil and, to a lesser degree, Lhuna and Pitch for continuing to talk about it. Drawing attention to it doesn't help the village at all.

Longer post to follow, just thought that should be said.

[Kitanna]

So this is who I have left to review:
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Huinesoron
Loslote
Pitchwife
Inziladun
A Little Green
Boromir88
Rune Son of Bjarne
Shastanis Althreduin
*Cries*
I removed Brinn for now, at least for yesterDay's posts, ideally I'll be able to look in-depth at toDay's posts, but honestly, the future does not look bright for me. I also took off the dearly quarantined. I figure anything I missed of G55 and Rikae is being covered in-depth toDay in light of their demises.

Inzil
Post #6: Banter
Post #8: Mostly more banter. And by mostly I mean a little "hmmmm" toward Huin's comment about overloading the Downs.
Post #19: Banter
Post #25:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Speculating on what those there are doing? No point. It's difficult (though not impossible!) to see a wolf being the first gone, but if that happened it could be useful.

Post #34: Comments on Legate's discussion of the fake vote. States the plan is kind of what already happens.
Post #50: Continues to debate Legate, states wolves will have a good idea of the way the wind is going and can plan accordingly, in regards to fake/no vote.
Post #53: Agrees with THE Ka on some points, more of the same on wolves using a fake vote to twist things.
Post #54: Some comments on Mac's posts. More on the fact a fake vote can help the wolves. It's all very short and some head nodding and reiterating the same information in different ways.
Post #82: Some more comments on the goings on, back and forth with Greenie. Says Legate feels off. Says the wolves would be reluctant to target the cobbler, though the cobbler would be hinting if they kept to their best interest. Ends the post wanting to look more at G55 and Legate.
Post #86: More comments on other people's thoughts. Personally, I don't find these helpful or telling in getting a read on Inzil. It's a lot of speculation and clarification on points.
Post #99: More of the same.
Post #102: Says doesn't suspect Pitch, and that raises alarm bells.
Post #205:

Boro was creeping me out early on, but that feeling has somewhat lessened.

I didn't read anything Inzil said in comments to Boro as him being creeped out, but more of a history of distrust over many games.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Conventional pack behavior might point to one or two loudmouths, one middle-of-the-road, and the rest under the radar.

Says G55 has been main suspect. Calls on Brinn who said she didn't want to get caught in a trap, parroting Rikae who said that comment was interesting.
Post #222: Questions Urwen's vote. And asks would a wolf be so careless?
Post #227: More on Urwen's
Post #228: Doesn't like the Brinnwagon. He had mentioned Brinn earlier as "interesting" for her trap comment, but otherwise, not much on her.
Post #231: Mentioned a "last night" comment from Shasta earlier and brings it up again here. Comes to the conclusion meant a literal RL last night and not last Night. Which, not sure why that wasn't his first thought?
Post #241: Votes G55, he was pretty consistent in suspecting her. So not really a surprise.
Post #265: Facepalm for the fake reveal
Post #273: Asks if everyone voted.
Post #287: Starting off toDay with

Rikae was the first vote on Brinn, and it must be significant that the wolves went after her. It's far too early for them to have been simply wanting to frame someone.

I find all the talk of framing interesting. Not that I can't see the reasoning behind a theory on framing, it just seems like a lot of chatter on Day 2 about it. Which seems like a lot in comparsiion to other games, but it's been a long time, maybe this is normal.
Post #290:

I thought she looked dodgy at the end of yesterDay. After so heavily going after G55, she failed to vote that way. I wondered if a Rikae-wolf hadn't started picking up the Cobblerishness.

Post #292: Posits the first question about my reaction to the reveal.
Post #296: Says Eonwe's was odd.
Post #297: Responds to Pitch about it being too early for a frame up, believes there were better options.
Post #304:

Maybe. Hers was the first vote on Brinn, and then she got a little scratchy with those of us avoiding that wagon. That could point toward a Brinnwolf, but it could also lead back to the idea of a frameup.

With the frame up ideas toDay, not just from Inzil. I just don't see it. Not at this stage.
Post #307: Responds to Pitch on something I don't quite understand...
Post #316:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Elaborate, by all means.

You know, I'd like elaboration on this too. I looked back at the Inzil's post proceeding the ping and am not really sure what Pitch pinged. Inzil made plenty of short posts and any one of them could have raised Pitch's eyebrows, but which and why?
Post #315: Approves of Eonwe's vote in spirit, but still says it wasn't helpful.
Post #321: Calls out Urwen for cryptic posts.
Post #325:

G55 had been my only real suspect all Day. The sudden push for Brinn made me wonder if someone wasn't trying to save a Galwolf.

Post #330: Tells Urwen to try their best, regardless of role.
Post #362: Comments on a Boro post about a Rikae trap set for a Brinnwolf. Says he didn't see it as a trap and didn't see Rikae as assumed innocent at end of Day. Agrees with Kath on speculation Rikae might have been thought to be the seer. Not sure of Legate and Pitch opportunistic if Brinn is innocent.
Post #372: Back to my G55 reveal comment.
Post #377: Can't fathom why I'm still alive unless it was believed Rikae was seer or I'm bold.
Post #379: More seer-Rikae notes and thinks lynch candidates should be those Rikae might have made uneasy.
Post #383: Response to Huin about pressing me for info.
And that's it.
I find it hard to get a decent read on Inzil. He spoke a lot and what he said was pretty consistent. He has been in the thick of things, but reads as playing it safe. Which, could probably be said of a number of others too. I'll just put him in my unsure pile for now.

[Lhunardawen]

It just occurred to me... For all intents and purposes, a vote for G55 is still a vote for an innocent (i.e. non-wolf). Maybe it's worth looking at those who voted for G55 as well. So, shamelessly stealing and combining Boro's and Eönwë's lists (with the non-G55 or Rikae votes in double brackets)...

[[Lhuna -> Lhuna]]
Rikae -> Brinniel
[[G55 -> Rikae]]
[[Boro -> Pitchwife]]
Urwen -> G55
Pitchwife -> Brinniel (2)
---30 min mark----
Kath -> G55 (2)
[[Shasta -> Pitchwife 2]]
[[Kitanna -> Pitchwife 3]]
Inzil -> G55 (3)
Lottie -> G55 (4)
[[Greenie -> Macalaure]]
THE Ka -> Brinniel (3)
[[Eönwë -> Urwen]]
----15 min mark----
Rune -> Brinniel (4)
Lommy -> G55 (5)
Huines -> G55 (6)
Legate -> Brinn (5)
Macalaure -> Brinn (6)
Brinniel -> G55 (7)
Sally -> Brinn (7) (after "ranger reveal")




I'm not even going to touch Urwen's vote, or think about Urwen at all, so long as she's determined to not-play this game. There's a modfire rule for a reason.


Kath

I'm struggling, because even though I feel like I talked myself out of it in the previous post, I am still suspicious of G55.

I didn't like early on that she was happy to slide all the 'responsibility' for the fake votes thing over to Legate. You can say he took a joking remark beyond her original intention but as I noted before it was actually her who brought it back up again.

And having backed away, the affray with Rikae is a great way to get involved in something without actually really having anything to say. It's all about what did that word really mean rather than much else. So it seems like she's been involved in a lot but hasn't really.

But what I'm REALLY struggling with is that I'm now following Urwen's vote, which I'm strongly irritated by on principle.

Thing is, I can't see where she talked herself out of her suspicion of G55. These were the last things she said about her:

G55 --> Rikae - quite a big fight seems to have blown up between these two. I looked at post 69 and couldn't really see anything in it. Yes, Rikae somewhat exaggerated events but it was early in the Day and to me read as typical banter. I don't think there was this element of deliberate misrepresentation that G55 feels is going on. I don't know if G55 has played with Rikae before and it's an unfamiliarity with playing style thing, or a great way for a wolf-G55 to have a pretty logical reason to vote an innocent-Rikae.

G55 ... earlier in the Day it was felt by some that she'd backed away from the 'fake-votes' in favour of leaving that to Legate, and was garnering a bit of suspicion or at least wary eyes as a result. She then leaps headfirst into a ding dong with Rikae and a few have now mentioned this makes her look innocent. I don't know that I'm going anywhere with this as it feels like it would be way too hard to make that a calculated thing.

She didn't really say much about suspecting G55 until her last couple of posts. Fishy. Can't quite put my finger on it.


Inziladun

I'm trying to decide whether I think Legate or G55 makes me more uneasy.

In response to the fake vote discussion

G55 has actually been my main candidate most of the Day. I'm still catching up, but it seemed Rikae spent a while suspecting her, then voted Brinn.
Then G55 votes Rikae What's up with that?

Despite not having said much about her in his previous posts

I see Urwen has jumped in out of nowhere to vote for G55. Would a wolf really be so careless?

Careless? For voting without an explanation, or for voting for another suspected wolf?
Finally, on his vote for G55:

There's no one else I would want at this point, and it could say a lot about Legate, Pitch, and Rikae.

It's odd how confident he seemed in his vote despite not saying much to support it in his previous posts. Suspiciously bandwagonny.


Loslote
Considered G55 and Pitch more wolf-like of the GLP trio. Thought Pitch didn't want to be tied up with or seen defending G55, kind of agreed with Huin that they might both be wolves. Pretty consistent in her suspicion of G55, even false-voted her. Thought she might be either Cobbler or wolf. Panicked at G55's reveal, urged the rest of the voters to vote Brinn to save her. Said anyone left who didn't vote for Brinn should be considered suspicious toDay.

Sounds sincere, albeit turned out to be wrong. Leaning innocent.


Thinlomien
First, she filed G55 under "Who Knows"

Galadriel55 - several things she's said have made me raise my eyebrows a little - especially how she treated the whole no-vote discussion from the start, but I think she might rather be an ordo sticking her neck out à la Legate or else the cobbler, and in either case probably not who I want to concentrate any more toDay than we already have.

False-voted Boro.

* I always read Gal's original suggestion (that was a no-lynch plan unlike Legate's) as tongue in cheek, and I was under the impression Gal confirmed this?

Okay hopefully that's the very last thing from me both about the nature of flip-flopping and on how the fake vote discussion started rolling, because it's high time to move on.

Said "Quite a bold statement for Day1 and pretty much out of nowhere??" to Lottie over something the latter had said a couple of times throughout the Day. Then her posts at the end of yesterDay. Prefaced her vote with "let's make this interesting."

So Brinn and G55 both at 6, but G55 the one to be a goner so far? With curious last minute posts from several people here! ToMorow will be iiiiiinteresting...

Said this after G55's late reveal, then urged remaining voters to vote for Brinn. And then toDay:

If the wolves were trying to orchestrate an innocent lynch yesterDay, it could have just as well been Gal, who they also knew wasn't one of them.

You would know, wouldn't you. Wicked. Tricksy. False.


Huinesoron
Questioned G55 for "hypothetically contemplating possible Wolf victories" (wolf-Hunter-ordo endgame).

Okay, I've stolen a little more time on the actual computer to read over "Phase 2" (people's comments on the G55/Legate/Pitch debate). Note that this does not mean I no longer suspect Pitch, G55, and Lommy (in no particular order);

But unless I missed something, I'm pretty sure that post above was his first considerable suspicion of her.

Okay, G55 reminds of that odd 'hey what if this specific scenario happened, would I still be a wolf winner?' question, so I guess I do have something else on her. Mac points out that Rikae's misrepresentation of him could be a simple mistake (I think someone's misattributed something to me somewhere, though I can't find it), which does make G55's continued pulling on the thread somewhat sketchy.

Mmmkay. Then false-voted Lommy. When G55 and Brinn tied at 2 apiece, said he still stands by his false-vote but would vote Pitch > G55 to derail the Brinnwagon. In the end voted G55 when the votes were at 4 Brinn, 3 Pitch, 5 G55.

If he voted Pitch as he preferred, he would have nearly contributed to a three-way tie, although I'm not sure if anyone else (other than Lottie, who at that point had already voted) would also vote for Pitch. Huin-Brinn wolf pair? Can it be that blatant?


Brinniel

As for the other side of the scale, it's still too early for me to feel any strong suspicions, but based on hunch and posts I've seen, I am slightly more wary of: Inzil, Pitchwife, G55

This was circa QT discussion, post-fake vote proposal, and pre-G55/Rikae.

I agree with this. I'm still a bit wary of G55 and Pitchwife (less so of the former), however I don't want to get caught in a trap. I think I will stay clear of this potential mess for toDay and focus elsewhere.

Cue alarm bells for some people. On G55's probing, she said of the three she suspects Pitch > G55 > Leggie. Pseudo-false-voted Inzil. Said she might look at those building a case against Pitch, time-permitting. (Why?) Suspected Kitanna for being quick to point out that there's a wolf in the GLP group, but not enough to vote her. Said G55/Rikae seems like a squabble between two innocents.

And as for the suspicions against me? As I said I'm not too worried about general wariness, as we all do suspect one another at some point. However since I know I'm innocent, I will be watchful anyone who is trying to build on a case against me.

Hmmmmmm.

Would have voted for Kit, but voted G55 to save herself. Vote itself is reasonable. Everything else? Suspicious.


In the midst of my re-read, I saw this:

Originally Posted by Shasta

Based on nothing more than this description of events I'd speculate on Cobbler-G55 and Innocent-Rikae. My opinion may change after I get context.

The psychic strikes again.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Urwen is leaving the game. She is not Mod-fired, but leaves on her own initiative.

I'll write her off in toDay's narrative.


So please do not vote for her toDay. It will be a zero-vote.

Will she still be quarantined?

[Pitchwife]

Greenie D1:

#74 Discusses the QT, says we shouldn't rely on the Cutie vote. Re Legate's plan: consistency easier for wolves, innocents change their minds based on evidence & arguments. Disagrees with G55 about the usefulness of lists.
#79 We shouldn't focus on chasing the cobbler.
#124 Sums us Hui's and Kath's points about the LPG triangle.
#135 corrects Mac's 'translation' of a post of Hui's about people's suspicion of Mac. Not sure what to make of the Hui/Lommy exchange. Feels better about Legate after him explain the 'dry run'. More interested in reactions to LPG than the trio themselves.
#164 The List (which I need to reread once more)
#178 G55/Rikae: G55 an ordo frustrated for lack of support OR a wolf trying to make a big case
#189 Kitanna not edgy like some have said; quick to low level suspect people (G55/Rikae wolf-on-wolf, Pitch opportunistic wolf?), but more like an ordo stirring the pot, voicing bad vibes; leaning more innocent than not
#206/238 ad Mac re his suspicion of Brinn (which seems 'awfully convenient to her'): Brinn looks sketchy, but Mac's post abut her (#196) reads 'like a wolf thought process written out'
#243 votes Mac for above reason (not a throwaway vote IMO, not with 10 people still to vote after her and mild suspicion on Mac from several people through the Day)


Comes across as sensible & independent-minded. Nothing wolvish sticking out at me so far. Shasta found her List too Agreeable (TM) in some parts, and I'm going to look at it in this light if I have the time, but over all she seems pretty straightforward to me and engages with people. Leaning innocent.

[Boromir88]

Sneaking in again to say thank you Kit and more for your efforts to continue your analysis. Will be completely free within the next 2 hours until the DL.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Also, if Kit is NOT the Ranger and the wolves decided to sacrifice her in order to draw out the real Ranger, I would implore the real Ranger to NOT come out just to expose her. I agree that I am hugely suspicious of Zil and, to a lesser degree, Lhuna and Pitch for continuing to talk about it. Drawing attention to it doesn't help the village at all.

Longer post to follow, just thought that should be said.

No one's asking the real Ranger to come out, and frankly I doubt it needs to be said.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Saw it as I was writing.

Thanks. I was trying to write up a timeline of the whole thing, until I realised it was just a timeline of consecutive posts, wasn't adding anything to my understanding, and by that time Legate and Lottie had already highlighted why it was suspicious anyway.

hS

[Inziladun]

I was prepared to let it go, however:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

There is also one very nice option about why not Kit - that the WWs thought they could get the village to lynch her. Or perhaps they were not entirely convinced (to be fair, that comment of Kit's could be read in many absolutely "innocent" ways!) and preferred not to risk it and/or they wanted to see if they can further get someone else to contest it or whatever.

I had (and have) no intention of voting for her. It just made no sense that Wolves would have let her alone.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Also, you guys should both realise that if Kit survived because she was a Wolf, then why would she make that comment in the first place?

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I didn't know. That's why I wanted clarification.