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02-22-2005, 06:38 AM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
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Radagast the Brown??
In Lotr Radagast only plays a very small part, I dont know much about him so I hope you guys could tell me about him.
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02-22-2005, 07:04 AM | #2 |
Mischievous Candle
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Here's something:
Wizards Success of the Wizards Radagast? From the Encyclopedia of Arda: Dates: Immortal. Radagast came to Middle-earth c.III 1000, and remained there at least until III 3018; his final fate is unknown. Race: Ainur Division: Maiar of Yavanna Order: Istari (Wizards) Meaning: Adûnaic for 'tender of beasts' Other Names: Aiwendil Titles: The Bird-tamer, The Brown, The Fool, The Simple The third, with Gandalf and Saruman, of the three Wizards who remained in the northwest of Middle-earth; he formerly dwelt at Rhosgobel on the borders of Mirkwood.
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Fenris Wolf
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02-22-2005, 11:26 AM | #4 |
Pile O'Bones
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Radagast the Brown became enamored with birds and trees and things of nature and he strayed from his mission.
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02-22-2005, 02:42 PM | #5 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2005
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What Ruoutorin said.
I never really understood his purpose in the books. The only thing I could think of is it shows that failure does not necessarily mean evil but a lack of focus. Last edited by Snorri Swifthammer; 02-23-2005 at 11:46 AM. |
02-22-2005, 07:49 PM | #6 |
Laconic Loreman
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Radagast by no means was a bad guy like Saruman, or completely just said forget about Middle-earth like Alatar and Pallando, but he just didn't "do" enough to succeed in his mission like Gandalf.
The key thing is the purpose of the istari were to bring together the people of middle-earth, to combat Sauron. As far as we know Radagast does not do this. He does listen to Gandalf, and has no part to play to help Sauron, or intentionally help Saruman, but nothing is said on him sticking to his purpose. Let's look at Gandalf, he helps Elrond said up a plan, he frees Theoden, he aids Gondor, he sticks with the people of Middle-earth to fight Sauron. Radagast tends to his birds, and does his own thing, if it so happens that Gandalf needs Radagasts' help he is willing, but other than that Radagast (as far as we know and according to Tolkien) doesn't complete his task. I've often thought that the istari had the important task of combatting Sauron and aiding the people's of middle-earth, but were also sent for personal tasks. It just so happens Radagast, chosen by Yavanna, falls in love with herbs and birds, a nature man. Possibly each istari were given a seperate, personal task, and Radagast let that one interfere with the main task. |
02-23-2005, 06:28 AM | #7 |
Animated Skeleton
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Since were on the topic of wizards, In Rotk EE Saruman asks Gandalf if he wants the rods of the five wizards, I only know of three wizards who are the other two?
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02-23-2005, 06:54 AM | #8 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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Pallando and Alatar the Blue, much is not sopken of these two, perhaps lost in the east...but a huge possibility...
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02-23-2005, 07:08 AM | #9 | |
Cryptic Aura
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Quote:
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02-23-2005, 08:45 AM | #10 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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02-23-2005, 11:04 AM | #11 | |
Dead Serious
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Okay, maybe not the last one... I think that you might have something of the right idea in saying that the animals were Radagast's specific mission, within the greater mission. Which gets me wondering: what were the specific missions of the others. The Blue Wizards seem to have been sent to the East, and the Valar alone know what happened to them. Gandalf seems to have been assigned to Elves, Hobbits, and Dwarves. He might have been sent to Men to, but I would theorise that that was originally Saruman's specific territory, into which Gandalf moved partly because Men were everywhere, but also because Saruman wasn't doing his job right. But you'll notice, that until Gandalf returns as Gandalf the White, he doesn't seem to have spent a large amount of time with the Gondorians or Rohirrim.
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02-23-2005, 06:44 PM | #12 |
Laconic Loreman
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It's interesting I've been wondering to Formendacil....
Well Saruman was selected by Aule, and so he does become greedy for power, just like a lot of people from Aule (dwarves for money, and Noldor for their own works). I doubt Aule wanted Saruman to go to Middle-earth and cause heck and destruction, but could be a long the lines of greed...possibly. As already discussed Radagast, maybe Yavanna just simply told him to take care of nature for her... I don't know anything about Alatar and Pallando besides they went into the east, so someone can inform us there. In Gandalf's case, he didn't want to go to Middle-earth he wanted to stay in Valinor, and he really wasn't selected by a valar but Manwe forced him to go, and was said to be most like Manwe. I think that's why we can see Gandalf is the only one to stay true to his task. For the reasons listed above. He wasn't in the same situation as the other istari, therefor he might not have had a "personal task," just the big one. |
02-23-2005, 08:22 PM | #13 |
Illusionary Holbytla
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I have a bit of a problem with the statement that the birds and beasts were part of Radagast's specific mission. The Istari were sent to aid Elves and Men against Sauron (also why the Blue Wizards failed - they were hardly helping against Sauron out east where they were...), and Radagast "forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures." Had Radagast's study of the animals been just a side branch of study it would have been fine, but in doing so he abandoned his true mission. Though he did not betray them like Saruman did, in a way he was in fact aiding Sauron by not aiding the West with his particular talents.
While the Istari were chosen by the specific Valar mostly because they were "like them," they were not chosen for specific causes. They were sent to help banish Sauron, plain and simple. Of course they were all going to use their specific gifts and talents to do so, but none of them did with the exception of Gandalf. Radagast's hobby became more of an obsession, to the exclusion of his true mission. |
02-23-2005, 08:30 PM | #14 |
Laconic Loreman
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So, Firefoot, you're saying that it was more "fate" than actual seperate missions? That since Radagast was most like Yavanna it was only natural that he fell in love with birds and nature? Since Saruman was most like Aule, he became greedy?
I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I just wanted to make sure that's what you meant, because it sounds more reasonable than anything else...I just want to make sure if that's what you mean? |
02-23-2005, 08:45 PM | #15 | |
Illusionary Holbytla
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Basically, yes. Yavanna chose Radagast presumably because he was like her - interested in the birds and the beasts. So that potential to become distracted was always there. It didn't have to happen that way; Radagast could have used those gifts to aid their cause. On Saruman, I don't think that he necessarily would have become greedy because he was like Aule, but as in Radagast's case the potential was there. Saruman was clearly always somewhat of a leader, and it follows that "power corrupts"... Each of the Istar were chosen because of their personalities; it just happens that Radagast's and Saruman's were not the 'right' personalities for the task. They didn't live up to the requirements as outlined by Manwë:
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02-24-2005, 06:24 AM | #16 |
Animated Skeleton
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Radagast did aid alittle,sending the eagles and all....
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02-24-2005, 08:31 AM | #17 | |
The Kinslayer
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The Blue Wizards
From The Peoples of Middle-Earth: The Five Wizards
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02-24-2005, 10:36 AM | #18 | |
Late Istar
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Regarding the issue of Radagast's and Saruman's respective "failures", I think something I posted in one of the chapter by chapter discussions is relevant:
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02-14-2006, 07:22 PM | #19 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Quote:
________ Weedmaps Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:01 PM. |
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06-12-2006, 10:56 PM | #20 |
Maundering Mage
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I have some things to add to this old discussion.
I don't believe that any were destined to fail as Firefoot suggested. I just don't see the need and point in sending somebody if there is no hope in success. Manwe had the most forsight and knew to send Gandalf and Cirdan obviously agreed, but this doesn't mean that Saruman couldn't have succeeded also. There was hope for him even at the end, else Gandalf would not have returned for him. He knew the hope was slim but he returned on that 'fools hope' to see if he could help return Saruman to a degree of his former greatness and make him faithful, a bit diminished, but faithful in the end. That failed however it illustrates that none of the Istari were destined to fail. Radagast's failing was not in his love and care of animals, rather in his apathy. He just didn't care enough, he meant well but didn't do everything required for success. The comparision between Radagast and Sauruman is equivalent to the difference between a sin of omission and a sin of commission. Radagast could be favorable compared to ents that Treebeard describes as becoming more tree-like. They are apathetic and loose the vision and drive and become more tree-like; Radagast, in my opinion, would become more mortal like in his apathy, he wouldn't cross the ocean to Valinor as he is dwindling and dimishing in his knowledge and prior greatness. I think he would remain in Middle-earth a mere shadow of what he became continually tending to his micro-environment without concerning himself with the goings on of the world around him. He wouldn't die but wouldn't grow.
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 06-13-2006 at 08:24 PM. |
06-16-2006, 04:35 AM | #21 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I thought Yavanna sent Radagast because she seemed to know that he had the most love for her works. Anyway in this sense Radagast seemed to have both failed and suceeded--he failed to ammend all (plant and animal) hurts of ME, but he did become friends of some of them.
And though Radagast indirectly aided Gandalf and Co., he did help in his own little way... Quote:
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06-17-2006, 07:01 AM | #22 |
Pile O'Bones
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Even though Radagast can be deemed to failure, it has been suggested (although I'm not sure if Tolkien himself said so explicitly) that Radagast was responsible for the Eagles' coming at certain appropriate times (such as the Battle of the Morannon and Five Armies).
Of the Blue Wizards, Tolkien came to theorise that they did not, in fact, fail in their mission, but were fundamental in helping some in the East resist Sauron. If they had not gone East, then Sauron's influence there would be much stronger and he would be able to muster a much stronger army to conquer the West. |
06-17-2006, 08:56 AM | #23 | ||||
Maundering Mage
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Two quotes on the blue wizards
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“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” |
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08-31-2010, 06:47 PM | #24 |
Emperor of the South Pole
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Could it be said that Radagast's knowledge taught Sarumann to use the crows as spies?
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08-31-2010, 07:29 PM | #25 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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I suspect Radagast never cottoned to Saruman's betrayal, else he'd have taken some active part against him. I think Radagast just wandered around, blissfully unaware of what was really going on. Radagast probably still thought Saruman was an ally, and that helping Saruman with information gathering was his bit in the fight against Sauron.
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09-01-2010, 05:07 PM | #26 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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No one knew
Inziladun, I think you're being unfair on Radagast here:
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09-01-2010, 06:44 PM | #27 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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But what about after? R. wasn't at the Council of Elrond. The scouts from Rivendell went to Rhosgobel and couldn't find him. It doesn't appear Gandalf ever spoke with him again, at least not until after the War was over. If Radagast never figured out (or, as I think, was never fussed enough about the War against Sauron to really care) that Saruman had turned to evil, there's no reason he wouldn't have kept telling the animals and birds to bring news to Saruman.
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09-04-2010, 02:23 AM | #28 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Negligent, not evil
In answer to your question:
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However, Radagast didn't go over to evil, as Saruman did; so I certainly don't agree that he would have carried on helping him once he knew the true state of affairs. I'm sure that Gwaihir, after he rescued Gandalf from Orthanc, would have given him this new information about Saruman. |
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09-04-2010, 09:08 AM | #29 | |
Gruesome Spectre
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Quote:
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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09-04-2010, 01:13 PM | #30 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Control of birds and beasts
You said here that:
Radagast doesn't control all the birds and beasts. There's an indication of this, after he delivered Saruman's message to Gandalf. The latter asked him to 'Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends'. This implies that thre were birds and beasts who weren't under Radagast's control. Presumably, the crows you mentioned were among them. |
09-04-2010, 01:15 PM | #31 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Control of birds and beasts
You said here, Inziladun, that:
Radagast doesn't control all the birds and beasts. There's an indication of this, after he delivered Saruman's message to Gandalf. The latter asked him to 'Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends'. This implies that there were birds and beasts who weren't under Radagast's control. Presumably, the crows you mentioned were among them. |
10-06-2010, 04:52 PM | #32 |
Haunting Spirit
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I think that sticking just to Radagast's role in LotR would be a mistake, though it's not said explicitely, Radagast participated in the assault on Dol Guldur as a member of The white council. Or so I'm convinced. Location, Location, Location. Considering Rosghobel's position on the edge of Mirkwood, is it not possible that radagast was simply oposing Sauron's will in the forest? And in the meantime separating himself among wild creatures native to those regions, where almost no humanoids lived for hundreds of years?
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12-06-2016, 05:47 PM | #33 | |
Cryptic Aura
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Six years late to the debate, but I have just discovered this little gem of a note from Christopher Tolkien in "The Istari", Unfinished Tales.
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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12-14-2016, 07:46 AM | #34 |
Gruesome Spectre
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Maybe Saruman resented having to be thrust into the drama of Aulë and Yavanna's technology vs. tree-hugger dynamic.
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