"The Hobbit: There And Back Again" To be Renamed "The Battle of the Five Armies"

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

I know some people who criticised the 2nd movie because 'it wasn't humorous enough'.

Now that's an interesting opinion. Personally I think the tone is simply inconsistent, that it fluctuates wildly from farcical humour to extreme seriousness. It's one of the reasons that I actually think they needed someone with a British comedy background involved in the scripts to capture the whimsical tone. I know Professor Tolkien himself came to disapprove of that tone but I still enjoy it because I think the narrative rather suits the conversational or story-teller style.

I think over the past year or so I've become a little less bothered by these things. I still don't like or approve of them, but I feel as if I can be somewhat more dispassionate about them.

What tends to frustrate me is this: every popular film or TV show or what have you has a 'big forum.' For 'Tolkien,' particularly the films, it's TORN. Other things have their own 'big forum.' And on these places there are people who can't take criticism of whatever it is, and make that very clear: critics are often "whingers" or "whiners" who can't do it themselves and therefore should be ignored. And because these people are notionally, in their very negative way, 'likers,' which is usually the gist of the 'big forum' in general, they tend to get away with it. If however someone makes a similarly truculent claim about the 'likers' (calling them "sycophants" or "fanboys," perhaps) it's considered very taboo. This isn't something I've done, if you're worried, but I've noticed the double standard. It's completely off-putting to observe an unquestioned vocal element which is silently condoned by the authority because their opinions roughly align, which nonetheless utterly stifles certain lines of discourse. I've been guilty of making unhelpful generalisations in the past, which I try these days to avoid, but I'd like to think that at least if I take issue with the film I don't feel the need to slander the people who like it, certainly not on a forum where it's supposed to be part of a conversation.

Maybe at the end of the day that's my biggest problem with these films - the certain group of "defensives" who take it all too personally, and in doing so, in a way, make it personal.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hoax or not? Discuss.

We should start a betting pool on how many of the spoilers are real.

I'm all in on they are.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

This isn't something I've done

This is something I have done, which is why I'm banned from TORN.

What's especially Kafka-esque is that site's byline "made by and for fans of JRR Tolkien." Um, no. "By and for fans of Peter Jackson"* is the truth of it. Actual Tolkien fans need not apply.

------------------


*And, according to some people who would be in a position to know, considerable guidance and financing from WETA/Wingnut and Warner Brothers.

[Mithalwen]

ToRN always gives me the impression that PJ has the sort of personality cult that Kim Jong-un can only fantasize about and that dissenters will be disappeared..... I have posted there once or twice but under a different identity....

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

What tends to frustrate me is this: every popular film or TV show or what have you has a 'big forum.' For 'Tolkien,' particularly the films, it's TORN. Other things have their own 'big forum.' And on these places there are people who can't take criticism of whatever it is, and make that very clear: critics are often "whingers" or "whiners" who can't do it themselves and therefore should be ignored. And because these people are notionally, in their very negative way, 'likers,' which is usually the gist of the 'big forum' in general, they tend to get away with it. If however someone makes a similarly truculent claim about the 'likers' (calling them "sycophants" or "fanboys," perhaps) it's considered very taboo. This isn't something I've done, if you're worried, but I've noticed the double standard. It's completely off-putting to observe an unquestioned vocal element which is silently condoned by the authority because their opinions roughly align, which nonetheless utterly stifles certain lines of discourse. I've been guilty of making unhelpful generalisations in the past, which I try these days to avoid, but I'd like to think that at least if I take issue with the film I don't feel the need to slander the people who like it, certainly not on a forum where it's supposed to be part of a conversation.

Maybe at the end of the day that's my biggest problem with these films - the certain group of "defensives" who take it all too personally, and in doing so, in a way, make it personal.

Fanboy-ism is often disgusting to observe. Someone is defending a film, or book, despite it's clear flaws. That's like small scale (and not nearly as bad) holocaust denial. For someone to ignore all the faults and praise PJ's movies as the greatest things to man, they must either be; immature, or can't understand other opinions for some strange reason.

If all the movie lovers just accepted that the films had a series of failings and mistakes, the book-crowd would surely be more accepting of them. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a not-good movie, as long as you can understand that it probably isn't the best thing ever, and it has its issues.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Smug the Fabulous

"Coming soon to theatres...Bombadil II: Old Man Willow's Revenge."

I can't decide if this idea is very funny or very scary.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the spoilers were real. Going to the midnight premiere on the 10th with the other Finns and will post a review after. I'm sure we'll be a bunch of grumpy cats among the audience - will have to smuggle in more rum&coke than last year to see us through!

[Morthoron]

I was having an amusing battle on this thread (starting at post# 38):

http://newboards.theonering.net/foru...;so=ASC;mh=25;

Obviously, I am completely wrong in thinking that The Hobbit would have done just fine without the insertion of a female character, Tauriel.

And equally as obvious, an admin thinks I am being insulting. Amazing I've lasted on that forum since 2008 without banishment. Kudos to the moderators of the Barrow Downs for being...ummm...not immoderate.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Well, I'd come round to help you out, but seeing as I got banned for being "insulting" (you know what that means in TORN-speak), I'll have to sit tight.

[Tar-Jêx]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I was having an amusing battle on this thread (starting at post# 38):

http://newboards.theonering.net/foru...;so=ASC;mh=25;

Obviously, I am completely wrong in thinking that The Hobbit would have done just fine without the insertion of a female character, Tauriel.

And equally as obvious, an admin thinks I am being insulting. Amazing I've lasted on that forum since 2008 without banishment. Kudos to the moderators of the Barrow Downs for being...ummm...not immoderate.

Trying to stay on TORN is like living in a country with an incredibly corrupt government. I have no idea how you've done it, but that's an achievement.

I'm so incredibly glad that our moderators and admins on here are actually doing their job, rather than abusing power and banning people with opposing opinions.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jêx

Trying to stay on TORN is like living in a country with an incredibly corrupt government. I have no idea how you've done it, but that's an achievement.

That seems very masochistic though.

Here, I made a thing for tonight:

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Tar-Jex

Fanboy-ism is often disgusting to observe. Someone is defending a film, or book, despite it's clear flaws. That's like small scale (and not nearly as bad) holocaust denial. For someone to ignore all the faults and praise PJ's movies as the greatest things to man, they must either be; immature, or can't understand other opinions for some strange reason.

I think that comparing fans of the films to Holocaust deniers is kind of crossing a line that oughtn't be crossed. I rather dislike the Hobbit films, and I have tons of criticisms of Peter Jackson's work; I may even sometimes think that those who unabashedly love the films are less sophisticated in their tastes than I am (whatever that might mean). But I do not think they are 'disgusting', nor that they are even the least bit like Holocaust deniers. Holocaust denial is, I would say, morally culpable; to deny the Holocaust is wrong, both factually and morally. To like a movie a lot despite what other people see as serious flaws? At most, I could see an argument that that is wrong artistically, but even that is questionable on semantic and philosophical grounds.

[Nerwen]

Just been revisiting these old movie threads. Ah, the nostalgia... the sweet, long lost time of innocence.... when we naively doubted the rumours...

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

We should start a betting pool on how many of the spoilers are real.

I'm all in on they are.

Well, congratulations! We have a winner!

However:

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

I think that comparing fans of the films to Holocaust deniers is kind of crossing a line that oughtn't be crossed. I rather dislike the Hobbit films, and I have tons of criticisms of Peter Jackson's work; I may even sometimes think that those who unabashedly love the films are less sophisticated in their tastes than I am (whatever that might mean). But I do not think they are 'disgusting', nor that they are even the least bit like Holocaust deniers. Holocaust denial is, I would say, morally culpable; to deny the Holocaust is wrong, both factually and morally. To like a movie a lot despite what other people see as serious flaws? At most, I could see an argument that that is wrong artistically, but even that is questionable on semantic and philosophical grounds.

I'm quoting this because it's still relevant, and is a point that should be made more often. Godwinisms aside, "anti-fans" who work themselves into rages at people for daring to like something they don't are just as bad as obsessed fanboys- in fact they're basically a mirror image of each other. It can be interesting to watch the hype-backlash cycle unfold- remember when the internet collectively tore strips off anyone who *didn't* praise AUJ?- but it's not good to allow oneself to get caught up in it, in either phase.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well, congratulations! We have a winner!

What do I get?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What do I get?

Your choice of our wide range of quality Morgul™ products! We recommend the Morgul™ Home Cinema System! Imagine watching "The Hobbit" 24/7 in 4k Ultra HD and Nazgul™ 5.1 surround sound!

(Actually you won't have to imagine it, as the Morgul™ Home Cinema System is locked to playing the "Hobbit" trilogy exclusively, on an endless loop, and cannot be turned off.)

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Your choice of our wide range of quality Morgul™ products! We recommend the Morgul™ Home Cinema System! Imagine watching "The Hobbit" 24/7 in 4k Ultra HD and Nazgul™ 5.1 surround sound!

(Actually you won't have to imagine it, as the Morgul™ Home Cinema System is locked to playing the "Hobbit" trilogy exclusively, on an endless loop, and cannot be turned off.)

Awww maaaaan!