Moria

[Thengal]

Before the Fellowship heads into Moria there are two interesting things that happen.

1. Boromir and Legolas do not want to go into Moria and Aragorn is very hestitant too.

2. There is another way around Moria discussed in the book, but not in the movie. Someone suggests that they go all the way around and down the coast to Mordor, but Gandalf says it will take too long.

Why do you think Boromir and Legolas do not want to go into Moria? Does Legolas know what the dwarves uncovered in the deep, maybe?(Besides the obvious)

How do you think the story would have changed if they went down the coast and passed up basically Moria, Isengard, Fangorn, Rohan etc.?

[Elrond of Rivendell]

I would guess that although the passing through Moria was one of the darkest episodes of the Fellowship's journey, it also did some good; the longer way down the coast would not have led to an encounter with Fangorn and the rising of the Ents. Saruman would probably utterly destroy Rohan (leaderless, as Theoden would remain under Grima's influence) and Sauron's assault on Minas Tirith would be succesful. (no Grey Company, no Rohirrim).
Frodo and Sam would probably not be able to tame Gollum, as he would certainly not dare to approach the whole Fellowship.
Well, I think that without the mines of Moria, the quest of the Ring would soon end.
Greetings,
EfR

[The Dark Elf]

i agree, but wouldnt thesoliers of Minas Tirith be empowered and encourage with the captain boromir coming back. (assuming he wouldnt be killed in another orc attack)

[Gashberz]

Yeah that would have been odd. And when they would have finished distroying the ring then alot of middle earth would have been distroyed. And many people dead.

[Gil-Galad]

Boromir wanted the ring for gondor, so he wanted to get it to his fatehr as soon as possible

[Legolas]

Taking the coast south and turning east at Rohan (or further down) would've taken far too long - Rohan and Gondor would've been levelled before Frodo ever had the chance to get to Mordor. Gandalf explains this when Boromir brings up the suggestion:

[Boromir:] '...Or we might pass by and cross the Isen into Langstrand and Lebennin, and so come to Gondor from the regions nigh to the sea.'
[...]
[Gandalf:] 'As for the longer road: we cannot afford the time. We might spend a year in such a journey, and we should pass through many lands that are empty and harbourless. Yet they would not be safe. The watchful eyes both of Saruman and of the Enemy are on them. When you came north, Boromir, you were in the Enemy's eyes only one stray wanderer from the South and a matter of small concern to him: his mind was busy with the pursuit of the Ring. But you return now as a member of the Ring's Company, and you are in peril as long as you remain with us. The danger will increase with every league that we go south under the naked sky.'

Balrog or no, Legolas would not have wanted to go through Moria. He probably was aware of the problems in Moria though, as it seems Thranduil would've known what Celeborn did. They were at the least aware of problems in Moria, though they did not know that Balin had tried to reinhabit Moria after the Quest for Erebor.

'Alas! ' said Celeborn. 'We long have feared that under Caradhras a terror slept. But had I known that the Dwarves had stirred up this evil in Moria again, I would have forbidden you to pass the northern borders, you and all that went with you. And if it were possible, one would say that at the last Gandalf fell from wisdom into folly, going needlessly into the net of Moria.'

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:06 PM January 13, 2004: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[doug*platypus]

If you consider that Tolkien first wrote the book without clearly knowing himself exactly what was going to happen next, then the question is not as straightforward as it sounds.

Saruman would probably utterly destroy Rohan (leaderless, as Theoden would remain under Grima's influence) and Sauron's assault on Minas Tirith would be succesful.

Correct, given the circumstances in the finished book. But if Tolkien had decided against Moria, and decided to take the long way round, what would have happened then?

We find out later that Théodred and Company are defending the Fords of Isen against Saruman. It is possible that had the company continued on through the Gap of Rohan they would have encountered Théodred instead of Éomer, and most of the rest of the Rohan story could be left intact but with small changes.

An encounter between Gandalf and Saruman would have been on the cards, I think. Perhaps Gandalf would even have ridden to Fangorn to rouse the Ents himself (he could have summoned Shadowfax by thought, as he did in the actual story). With all the opportunities for battle, Boromir could still have died defending Merry and Pippin. The question is, though, how and why would the Fellowship be broken? Tolkien himself stated that without the breaking of the company, the quest could not have been achieved.

It is likely that even if Gandalf and a few others stayed in Rohan to help with the fight against Saruman, Aragorn at least would have gone east with Frodo and Sam, desiring to go to Minas Tirith. The entire story would of course have been completely different, and the appearance of Gollum more questionable. It makes for some interesting speculation though!

[Thorongil]

But if Gandalf hadn't fallen with the Balrog and died, he wouldn't become Gandalf the White, and Saruman wouldn't be replaced.

[Kaiserin]

Passing through the Gap of Rohan would have probably exposed them to Saruman, since this route would brush along the edges of Isengard. The fellowship would probably be apprehended by orcs, Frodo probably could not have made his exit so easily.

One of them would probably be slain in the orc-attack. Still Boromir perhaps? Boromir's death was tragic, but it was eventually convenient that the rightful king of Gondor needn't contest with the current steward and his heir, so it would make sense that the author would discard Boromir.

I agree that another direct confrontation between Saruman and Mithrandir would be likely.

But if Gandalf hadn't fallen with the Balrog and died, he wouldn't become Gandalf the White, and Saruman wouldn't be replaced.

Most consider Mithrandir's fall and resurrection as essential to the plot. If he did not fall at Moria, could he perhaps have fallen by the hand of Saruman if the company took this alternate route? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] (to have risen later, of course)

I don't think Gandalf's death was intended as a means to replace Saruman as the White. The latter was already Saruman of Many Colors long before Gandalf fell.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:26 AM January 17, 2004: Message edited by: Kaiserin ]