Is Thorin to remain alive?

[Lotrelf]

I saw on Facebook that Thorin is NOT going to be killed in the third Hobbit movie. This article is what I found as a proof. If this is true, I guess it's a horrible change [although there are many]. Do any of you know if this is true or not?

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

I saw on Facebook that Thorin is NOT going to be killed in the third Hobbit movie. This article is what I found as a proof. If this is true, I guess it's a horrible change [although there are many]. Do any of you know if this is true or not?

Don't worry Lotrelf. I'm pretty sure this is just unsubstantiated rumour mongering. I believe Richard Armitage has stated in interviews that Thorin definitely still dies at the end of the story - if anyone can find a link that would be useful, I haven't got the time at hand to find one.

As for Smaug leading the armies of Orcs in the final battle, well, I pray that doesn't come true but I'm worried.

[Lotrelf]

I've heard about the interview too, and hopefully they don't depart from the original story as they have already done. Not that I want Thorin dead, it's just this is how Professor wrote him and no one else has right to do anything with that- especially for money.
As for Smaug thingy, I haven't finished the book yet, so I am not sure what should I say or think, but will do it soon. I hope your fear doesn't come true.

[Nerwen]

Lotrelf, the article you link is just paraphrasing another, which in turn makes some vague claims in the passive voice ("it has been reported" etc.) and cites as its only source an unnamed "website". I wouldn't take any of this too seriously.

-Mind you, practically every other time we've dismissed a rumour about these films as a hoax it's turned out to be true, so let's not get too complacent...

[Mithalwen]

Before I got fed up and unjoined, there was a screamingly funny thread on the Tolkien soc faceache group in response to someone with a petition that Thorin be spared. In it Thorin became Schrödinger's dwarf.

Nothing would surprise me as to the changes Jackson is prepared to make and even justify as respecting Tolkien, in the teeth of the evidence. And we already have Schrödinger's elf (Haldìr).

[tom the eldest]

No offense,but who schrödinger?

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lotrelf, the article you link is just paraphrasing another, which in turn makes some vague claims in the passive voice ("it has been reported" etc.) and cites as its only source an unnamed "website". I wouldn't take any of this too seriously.

-Mind you, practically every other time we've dismissed a rumour about these films as a hoax it's turned out to be true, so let's not get too complacent...

Jeez! I hope what you're saying is true, and the rumour doesn't end up being true too. I think PJ has already made TS members unhappy by giving the movies "his touch". Is he really ready to take another blame on him?
Your rumour being true makes me feel there should be thread entitled "That awkward moment when..." and everyone should reply their "awkward" memories or something.
Like: "That awkward moment when Legolas got bruised fighting with the Orcs." xD
and "That awkward moment when the false news of Thorin's life [being spared] became true."
Mithalwen, are you talking about the scientist Schr�0‹2dinger? Please let me know.

[Mithalwen]

Yes, and his paradox of the cat being both alive and dead ... and I am aware it is. A lot more complicated than that but ....

[Morthoron]

At this point, does it matter what new travesty Peter Jackson inflicts on The Hobbit? It is already a farce.

Besides, this Thorin character in the movie bears utterly no resemblance to the one in the book. He's just a short surly guy without manners, not a dwarf.

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

At this point, does it matter what new travesty Peter Jackson inflicts on The Hobbit? It is already a farce.

Besides, this Thorin character in the movie bears utterly no resemblance to the one in the book. He's just a short surly guy without manners, not a dwarf.

I agree with you here, Morthoron. After the bad fanfiction of Tauriel, letting Thorin live would be mild by comparison.

[Zigûr]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Besides, this Thorin character in the movie bears utterly no resemblance to the one in the book. He's just a short surly guy without manners, not a dwarf.

I really don't understand the praise for Thorin in the films. Richard Armitage is fine, I suppose, but the portrayal of the character is so safe and boring, cut straight from a Hollywood cookie cutter template with virtually no reference to the original character.

Incidentally, don't the filmmakers look incredibly hypocritical for saying that the Dwarves needed to be given more character than their book counterparts, then proceeding to just give them each a silly haircut and calling it a day? I mean, beyond Thorin, Kíli, Balin and to a tiny extent Fíli, they haven't bothered to characterise them at all - most of them still don't speak. Yet they have plenty of time for characters who weren't in the book or whom they actually made up. I was watching LordPhillock's commentary the other day and there were glimpses of some of the Extended Edition scenes from "An Unexpected Journey," particularly in Rivendell, which do characterise the Dwarves, but merely by showing them being crass and undignified, and the Elves reacting to it with stuffiness and discomfort. In the book the Elves are cheery and fun while the Dwarves are pompous and uncomfortable. Why the complete reversal?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

I was watching LordPhillock's commentary the other day and there were glimpses of some of the Extended Edition scenes from "An Unexpected Journey," particularly in Rivendell, which do characterise the Dwarves, but merely by showing them being crass and undignified, and the Elves reacting to it with stuffiness and discomfort. In the book the Elves are cheery and fun while the Dwarves are pompous and uncomfortable. Why the complete reversal?

I still haven't seen either of the Hobbit films, but that depiction of the Elves' general characterization seems consistent with that in the LOTR trilogy: aristocratic bordering on arrogant, with a barely concealed disdain for the lower races. And to emphasize that, the other races are made to act rude, crude, and socially unacceptable. The book-Elves did have a sense of humor, and weren't described as always glowering and somber. Maybe it's because they ate meat

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by tom the eldest

No offense,but who schrödinger?

Schrodinger is a scientist, but is most famous for his philosophical parable or thought experiment of the cat. Without too many details, the experiment goes like this. In a box, you put a cat, a bottle of cyanide (poison), and a source of radiation (lamp or anything else that radiates). The box is closed, and you cannot see inside. When a radiation particle hits the cyanide bottle, it breaks, spilling out the poison and killing the cat. You don't know if the cat is alive or dead without looking inside the box, and there is no "in between" state. It's not like he's 50% alive. So he must be 100% alive, but at the same time 100% dead, and both are true. When you look inside the box, the cat is either one or the other, but not both. When you cannot see him, he must be thought of as both.

Why is Haldir a Shrodinger's Elf, though? Because he's alive in the books but dead in the movies?

[Mithalwen]

Yep. Though. I appreciate that it isn't a flawless paralel since it depends on where you look.. but it amuses me..little thing and so forth

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Schrodinger is a scientist, but is most famous for his philosophical parable or thought experiment of the cat. Without too many details, the experiment goes like this. In a box, you put a cat, a bottle of cyanide (poison), and a source of radiation (lamp or anything else that radiates). The box is closed, and you cannot see inside. When a radiation particle hits the cyanide bottle, it breaks, spilling out the poison and killing the cat. You don't know if the cat is alive or dead without looking inside the box, and there is no "in between" state. It's not like he's 50% alive. So he must be 100% alive, but at the same time 100% dead, and both are true. When you look inside the box, the cat is either one or the other, but not both. When you cannot see him, he must be thought of as both.

Why is Haldir a Shrodinger's Elf, though? Because he's alive in the books but dead in the movies?

Hmmm...then this must be Schrödinger's Hobbit. You don't know if it's Tolkien or not. It can't be both. It has all the Tolkien characters, but it has characters that have nothing to do with the original story. It's allegedly about the hobbit Bilbo Baggins, but his plot points are minimized, usually by gravity-defying Matrix elves.

Damn that Schrödinger!

[Lotrelf]

I feel PJ exaggerates a lot. AUJ had lots of "exaggerated" stuff too. Wars, Wargs, Orcs etc. were way too much. Thorin being kind of a jerk is also a part of the exaggeration that movie makers are giving us. Hopefully this news is ACTUALLY false, and they keep the spirit of Professor's work alive.

[Mithalwen]

Frankly the only one of the films (lotr I haven't seen the hobbit) that really did was FOTR ...downhill all the way after.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lotrelf

Hopefully this news is ACTUALLY false, and they keep the spirit of Professor's work alive.

That, I think, is long dead, but they might at least keep some of the basic original plot points intact.

[tom the eldest]

Thorin remains alive would bena serious plothole in lotr as well.battle of dale would be different,maybe with thorin died defending bard instead of dain,who instead would be king of the mountain after thorin.and because thorin isnt as wise as dain,he would probably atempt a full scale invasion of moria.that wouldnt go well(im sorry if there wrong detail)

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Frankly the only one of the films (lotr I haven't seen the hobbit) that really did was FOTR ...downhill all the way after.

You're right Mithalwen. While FotR was mostly watchable, though I had problems with it, things started to go downhill in The Two Towers. To give three examples: Arwen going to leave Middle-earth then changing her mind; Saruman's curing of Theoden looking like something out of The Exorcist; and Grima Wormtongue resembling Marilyn Manson.