Fantasy before Tolkien

[paavo]

I was just wondering that were there e.g elves,trolls and dragons before tolkien wrote the Hobbit and The lord of the rings, or did he "invent" them by himself. And if it was not Tolkien who created them then who did?

[Legolas]

There were certainly trolls, elves, and dragons. Most certainly elves, though a common misconception was that Tolkien's elves looked like the traditional fairy-tale elves which they most certainly did not. They weren't meant to leave inside trees, or have cute little pointed ears, or Robin-Hood-style hats.

But to those creatures which in English I call misleadingly Elves

There are numerous comments on the usage of dwarves, elves, etc. in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.

Also I now deeply regret having used Elves, though this is a word in ancestry and original meaning suitable enough. But the disastrous debasement of this word, in which Shakespeare played an unforgiveable pan, has really overloaded it with regrettable tones, which are too much to overcome. I hope in the Appendices to Vol. III to be able to include a note 'On translation' in which the matter of equivalences and my uses may be made clearly. My difficulty has been that, since I have tried to present a kind of legendary and history of a 'forgotten epoch', all the specific terms were in a foreign language, and no precise equivalents exist in English.

There are no songs or stories preserved about Elves or Dwarfs in ancient English, and little enough in any other Germanic language. Words, a few names, that is about all. I do not recall any Dwarf or Elf that plays an actual pan in any story save Andvari in the Norse versions of the Nibelung matter. There is no story attached to the name Eikinskjaldi, save the one that I invented for Thorin Oakenshield. As far as old English goes 'dwarf' (dweorg) is a mere gloss for nanus, or the name of convulsions and recurrent fevers; and 'elf we should suppose to be associated only with rheumatism, toothache and nightmares, if it were not for the occurrence of aelfsciene 'elven-fair' applied to Sarah and Judith!, and a few glosses such as dryades, wuduelfen. In all Old English poetry 'elves' (ylte) occurs once only, in Beowulf, associated with trolls, giants, and the Undead, as the accursed offspring of Cain. The gap between that and, say, Elrond or Galadriel is not bridged by learning

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:21 PM December 28, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[Olorin_TLA]

Elves, Dwarves, Trolls and Dwarves all existed in myths and folklore (most recognisable in Norse when comparing to Middle-earth), but certainly Tolkien's versions are unique, except the Dragons, whihc like all Dragons are terrifying, deadly monsters. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Balrogs are his own, as are Hobbits and Ents (Ent is Old English for Giant, but the whole walking tree thing is his (well, in the way he used it: I'm positive that there exist, somewhere, myths about a walking tree, or more than 1); Orks are also his, though inspired by folklore's goblins - but once again, the change between those goblins and his is as big as the chnage between folklore's dwarfs, elfs and trolls, and his dwarves, elves and trolls.

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

elfs

Elves. This is more important than you would think. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lathriel]

Tolkein was one of the first who brought fairy tales and myths into a new light. He practically introduced fantasy. He was the first to make myths and fairy tales into a book not only for children but for adults too.

[Olorin_TLA]

Tuor, note the fact that I said "elfs" when referring to the fairy tale/myth ones, which is how that's spelt, and "Elves" when talking of Tolkien's ones, wheihc are very, very different.


[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[lore_master]

Tolkien's elves were based on the Norse, and Findish myths, which included, tall, handsome humanoid beings known as elves.
also norse myths also included short, hairy beings known as dwarves.

norse And findish myths are were he got a lot of his material from