WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Boromir88]

Well even if none of us got lynched and swept clean through, none of you made it easy that's for sure.

I was at a loss on what to do, because right from the start it was like we got heavily suspected. Day 1 Nessa and Wilwa were in trouble, and Skip a little bit. Then Nessa some more, then me, then back to Skip, then back to me. It was a rollercoaster of emotions and nearly impossible to find the seer since it seemed like everyone had suspicions against at least one wolf.

It was a fortunate stroke to get Shasta, I don't even remember what led to that decision, I think it was mostly Skip who had to decide as I don't think the rest of us were on close to the DL. My guess for a few days had been Legate because the day Inzil was lynched he said he would "really prefer" Nessa, and I thought that was a slip as I was sure from how suspected Nessa was early on the seer would have dreamt her. Then Skip asked about elron and after looking through her posts thought she was a good guess too.

It was a battle trying to figure out what to do, because we wanted to keep the 2 kills but also not leave a clear trail by defending eachother. So early on it was kind of like..."fend for yourselves" and use the sheer number of people to get in at least a few double kills. But it was like defense mode from the start with the first suspicions being against wilwa, Nessa, and Pitch. I tried to play nice and put on the charm, but come Day 2 Mac called me out for doing nothing productive, and my night PMs consisted of "Mac's not the seer. He's not the seer, just put up with him, *sigh* can't we just kill him anyway?"

So, then thinking well, charm's going to wear off how do I not get lynched? Let me play politics and do absolutely nothing helpful at all. I went into obstruct everything and give nothing away mode. Obviously this meant I was the cobbler and I ran with that idea, which I thought was going to pay off...until the cobbler was lynched. That night I recall several times telling the other wolvsies "I'm so dead tomorrow. It's over, I don't have a miracle to pull this out. I'll try some lame excuse for my ridiculous behavior but I'm soooo dead and buried tomorrow." Miracle came with the seer's death and then everyone being soooo confident about Manwe. I didn't want to jump out and support it confidentally fearing some sort of massive innocent retracting catching all the wolves for jumping quickly for a Manwe lynch.

Originally Posted by Cailin

Boromir88, you must have been awfully amused while "desperately pushing" for a Nessa-lynch.

Those last days were fun. I knew no one was trusting me farther than they could throw a heavy gorilla, so I thought the only thing I could do was to fuel the feeling that Nessa was getting set up and then also defend Manwe.

Very enjoyable game to Nog and all the new faces and returning players, brings back nice memories. (And huge apolgies to Lommy about your broken bororadar)

[Loslote]

Well done, wolves. *grump*

Really, though, you guys were amazing. And may I point out that lynching Kit would have been more helpful than lynching me?

[Blind Guardian]

I TOLD YOU A WOLF WAS NESSA!

And do you listen? NO! *curses all of you*

Great game. I don't think any game I have ever played in ended well. >.< This has to be a record though, glad I played. Sorry I wasn't on a lot but life got in the way and I thought the timed ended differently.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Easily the worst game I ever played as an ordo. *shakes head*

Tell me about it. If I hadn't second-guessed myself at the last moment and voted Nessa instead of Lottie, things might have gone differently.

I came into this game feeling rather relieved to not be a wolf finally, and as a result I was pretty careless, saying whatever was on my mind, with little thought as to how it would make me look. We see how well that worked.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Congrats to the wolves, though! Very well and very sneakily played.

Indeed. Most impressive!

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On D1 she picked Sally. She changed it to Pitchie on N2 and held with him to the end.

See? I was all for lynching Kit! We could've gotten the Cobbler at least.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I was at a loss on what to do, because right from the start it was like we got heavily suspected. Day 1 Nessa and Wilwa were in trouble, and Skip a little bit. Then Nessa some more, then me, then back to Skip, then back to me. It was a rollercoaster of emotions and nearly impossible to find the seer since it seemed like everyone had suspicions against at least one wolf.

I'd like to point out that even though I later dropped the ball on Nessa, I was the first to suspect her for something (the "numbers" Day 1 post), and what happened? I got suspected instead.

Great game, Nogmod! I enjoyed it immensely.

[skip spence]

Ah it´s all over then. Nice to be on good side of a rout this time and get revenge on Inzil from last time we played. Fun game. Excellent modding. And although it didn´t end up that well for the innocents, during the early Days we were terrified, it seemed like whatever we said illicited a unosone cry of "WOLF!!".

Should return with some more comments on Sunday.

[Galadriel55]

I was watching the game, and it really has to be a record - not a single wolf lynch!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I was watching the game, and it really has to be a record - not a single wolf lynch!

It's been done at least once before. Presumably, that's the game skip was wanting revenge on me for.
We didn't have nearly that high number of villagers against us as in this case, though.

[Cailín]

Actually I remember a time in the very distant past - WWX - when all the werewolves survived as well. Incidentally, Wilwarin modded that game and one of the victorious wolves was Boromir88. Of course, this time four wolves survived and that may be a first. WWX was a very different game, but I think the ordinary villagers made similar mistakes: a lack of confidence in their own judgment (this was definitely true for me this game) and overly relying on the judgment of "experienced" players (or loudmouths). In WWX the wolves were able to take over the village because of this. In this game, some of the vocal players simply made the wrong choices (which happens to us all every now and then, and definitely to all of us this game). I know this has been brought up before but it would be a nice experiment to see what would happen in a village in which we were all anonymous without some people automatically assuming a leadership position because of their were-miles. Also, no more meta reasoning

I think it's quite funny how everyone sort of knew who the wolves were all game long but still we failed. When I told Eomer of the Rohirrim, who is in bed with a high fever at the moment, that the wolves had achieved a flawless victory (without revealing any of the kills after Shasta) the conversation went roughly like this:

Eomer: So was Mac a wolf?
Me: No, just misguided after all. Want to guess?
Eomer: Let me see... Nessa. Skip. Who else was playing? Wilwarin. And err... Boromir88?
Me: Yea. Exactly.
Eomer: Foolish village.

[Cailín]

Oh wait - it is also the second time Wilwarin achieved a total wolf victory. Sorry Wilwa. In my first game, WWIX, the wolves also all made it to the end and they had even more Gifteds and special roles working against them.

I have also just realised I was an ordinary villager in each of these games and survived until the final Day twice, getting all sorts of innocents lynched. A very embarrassing sort of pattern.

[Ozban]

As Inzil posted above:

This autumn in Lommy's game (WW LXXXII), btw. it was that famous Shastaseer slaughter , all wolves and even the cobbler survived till the end.
I belive it was Nog, Inzil and Eonwe as wolves and Boro-cobb.

This time at least the cobbler died.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Cailín

Oh wait - it is also the second time Wilwarin achieved a total wolf victory.

Yeah, I'm sorta awesome.

This game was pretty sweet, I wish I hadn't been so busy and could have actually participated more (though maybe the lack of posts sorta helped me out). We certainly had fantastic luck, especially with Nessa never actually being lynched, and Shasta and Manwe (that was all just too perfect of a situation for us).

And I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but we did know Pitch was our Cobbler. He sent his name in the first Night. I was so excited when Sallycakes brought up that idea, and even more excited when Agan drew extra attention to it. We were very grateful that he got lynched in place of one of us, he served his purpose well!

My fellow wolves are all awesome. I can't remember if Boro and I have ever wolved together before, if we haven't it was about time that we did. And Nessa and Skip were fantastic, Nessa for avoiding those lynches like a pro, and Skip for having some pretty brilliant ideas!

And of course much love to Noggins, who did a wonderful job! <3

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It's been done at least once before. Presumably, that's the game skip was wanting revenge on me for.
We didn't have nearly that high number of villagers against us as in this case, though.

Ah, the game of the epic team Nogorozilwe. That game was dreadful. And ironically was already refered to in the present game, after Kit revealed and Skip said "no, I'm the real Hunter", haha.

[Valier]

great game wolves!!!!! I can't believe you all managed to survive....and thanks for killing me on N3....(NOT!!!) glares Ah well it was fun anyways. At least I wasn't way, way off with my suspicions...Well at least I thought Boro and Skip looked fishy. Nessa and Wilwa though that was a surprise!!
Hope to play again soon with all of you

[A Little Green]

Agan I did realise you were hinting at me but I had no idea what it was about. Especially I had no idea that lobster was referring to Lobelia. Congrats wolves! Great job!

[Nogrod]

I do remember all wolves making it to the end before (how could I not? ), but what I was pointing out to as a record, was that there were four wolves and a village of 24! So they really took off 20 villagers without a scratch! That, I think, could be a record?


For the few comments of the nice set-up or story... I'm actually a bit disappointed myself because I had this idea that the Maiar would eventually get more anguished and I could start marching all these ideas from different existentialist-philosophers & modernist poets into the narrations wailing about the misery, emptiness and pointlessness of life... but we never got that far - thank's to the effectiviness of the wolves.

I might have started on that road when Mänwe died, but as he took his death so coolly I felt it would have be wrong to make him die in total anguish in the narration after been cool as a cucumber in the game...

When I realised that the game was ending pretty fast I started this "wolves discuss theological implictions of death during the Night" -scene, and thought of continuing it the next Night to give it a twist... (well, developing it further with the idea of what about there is no quarantee to your faith...), but then Lommy and Greenie came to spend an evening with me as I was laying sick at home, so I had never time to write it...To me, the evening sure was much more fun that way, but sad outcome for the narration.


But hey, once again, great game everyone! It was a pleasure to mod this, and a lot of fun to follow the discussion knowing where you guys had it right and where you went astray... and I must say I couldn't avoid some headdesking myself either...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Guessing your role right was actually the only good thing I managed to do this game - after you brought my attention to the fact that Shasta referred to you as a cobbler, but to Rikae as an ordo. Didn't help, though.

Hehe that makes me even happier you weren't a wolf! I didn't want a known innocent status but it would've been strange if I had kept insisting I hadn't been dreamed of, that's why I tried to hint at Legate & Green.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

It's been done at least once before.

Yes and also in my game like two years ago (the wolves were Nog, Nerwen & Durelin).

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I was so excited when Sallycakes brought up that idea, and even more excited when Agan drew extra attention to it.

Yeah I really regretted underlining it afterwards... but I was in a hurry and didn't have time to think my actions through! I was sure the wolves would think I was the cobbler and the cobbler I was a wolf (at least on day 1) and both would be surprised when I turned out innocent. Who did Pitch suggest (besides himself) and did any of you ever hint at him?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

For the few comments of the nice set-up or story... I'm actually a bit disappointed myself because I had this idea that the Maiar would eventually get more anguished and I could start marching all these ideas from different existentialist-philosophers & modernist poets into the narrations wailing about the misery, emptiness and pointlessness of life... but we never got that far - thank's to the effectiviness of the wolves.

Oh my, how many more Days would you have wanted to torture us? Wasn't that enough?

Seriously, the story was great as it was, and at least you have still something left for a future game, if it comes to that So, I wouldn't worry...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Oh my, how many more Days would you have wanted to torture us? Wasn't that enough?

I was actually counting on the game lasting about 10 Days (8-9 minimum)...

That of course was based on the presupposition that you'd get at least one wolf lynched on D3 or 4 the latest to end the double-kills...

[Pitchwife]

So this was my first time as the cobbler. Initially, I thought it would come quite naturally to me, as I all too often end up functioning as an unintentional cobbler when I'm an ordo, but once the game got going, I found it fiendishly difficult. All that duplicity and double think, without the wolvish advantage of knowing your foes and allies and being able to bounce your ideas off your packmates - it was a nightmare. I consoled myself thinking that as long as I got suspected enough to be a distraction and at need a convenient lynch instead of a wolf, I couldn't do that much wrong, and this at least seems to have worked out.

As for my speculations about the wolves' identities, there naturally was a lot of flipflopping, but my last guess on the Day when I died was *fanfare* Agan, Mac, Rikae, and possibly Shasta (but don't ask me what I thought I was doing when I started suspecting him late on Day 4, I've no idea). Nog didn't believe his eyes when I sent him the list post mortem. Legate was on it too a Day or two before, and I'd even considered Zil for a while (not on the Day I voted him, though - at that time I'd started to surmise that Nessa might really be a wolf, before Mac managed to make even me doubt it again).

It was crazy. I kept seeing imaginary hints in all the wrong places, and probably missed quite a lot real ones. (wilwa, I did notice what you said about the Valier kill, especially since Agan was so kind to point it out, but you looked so innocent after all that not wanting to alert the wolves & cobbler to what sally had said, so it got buried in the self-generated white noise.) Wonder what I looked like to the real wolves - you at least knew about me, but you must have wondered why I didn't respond to any hint of yours.

(Speaking of hints, Rikae, I was thoroughly baffled what in Arda you could mean with me hinting to/about Boro, until you explained it when I was dead. Agan's explanation was correct, of course - it's a vocabulary question. Boro's title was nowhere near my mind at the time.
While we're at it, what was that "I think I might know someone who knows something" thing on Day 4 really about?)

Anyway, kudos to the victorious pack! And Nessa, I take back my words on the thread, you are a survivalist! All four of you are.

Kit having to drop out was a gift of Melkor, and things might have gone differently if she'd been lynched instead. I was quite aware that I'd be a likely candidate for hunting, so naturally I had to argue against it.

Anyway, none of you innocents should sell yourselves short, you all put up a brave fight. Agan, those double kills must have been a Ranger's nightmare! And Shasta, I guess it wasn't easy to pick your dreams either with so huge a village. Too bad you got killed on the very Night you dreamed your first wolf!
Mac, what do you mean, worst game ever? Come on, you were spot on with suspecting Boro, skip and me, even if you got Boro's role and mine mixed up. Not so spot on with Nessa and Mänwe, but such is life.
À propos:

Originally Posted by Boro

and my night PMs consisted of "Mac's not the seer. He's not the seer, just put up with him, *sigh* can't we just kill him anyway?"

So I wasn't the only one thinking that! That's why I suggested him on Night 4. You wolves probably did well deciding to leave him alive, it would have been rather risky for Boro and me otherwise. Not your fault I had to draw the wrong conclusion when I found him alive in the morning...

Originally Posted by Valier

and thanks for killing me on N3....(NOT!!!) glares

You can blame me for that, I suggested it. Not terribly sportsmanlike after your long absence, I know, but take it as a compliment - I was pretty scared of your psychic powers, and I suppose so were the wolves. Looking at the repercussions, it seems to have been one of my brighter ideas in this game. (Sorry, Zil!)
But it was a pleasure to play with you for the first time. Same to Cailín and Mänwe (who faced unanimous lynching with admirable stoicism, and I never got why anybody found you so suspicious in the first place). And well met again, Ozzy and everybody else!

Last not least, as always, thanks and kudos to Nog for modding this! It was huge fun, the story idea was great (and well executed, whatever you say), and I enjoyed your narrations very much, including and especially the music - reading the lists of the living and the dead with Penderecki in my ear was a unique experience.

[Galadriel55]

I (as a "bystander") thoroughly enjoyed reading the narrations, and the music was fantastic! I really enjoyed watching the game as well! Great job, Nog, and great job wolves!... And innocents!... And gifteds!

[Pitchwife]

/\
Hear, hear! Perhaps we'll get a new recruit for this madness in the near future?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Perhaps we'll get a new recruit for this madness in the near future?

Perhaps so, but I'm not sure about near. I've considered joining for this game, but decided not to, since the most I'd be able to do is about 3-5 posts per day. I don't think I'd make a great player at that rate! I will probably join a game during a break, so that I can participate more.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

It was crazy. I kept seeing imaginary hints in all the wrong places, and probably missed quite a lot real ones.

We never discussed hinting at you so I can only speak for myself but I was okay with you not knowing who we were and never attempted any communication. It just seemed too risky given the good position we were in after Day 2 and we were quite confident just to leave you alive hoping that the Day would come when your services would be required.

Originally Posted by Boro

and my night PMs consisted of "Mac's not the seer. He's not the seer, just put up with him, *sigh* can't we just kill him anyway?"

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

So I wasn't the only one thinking that! That's why I suggested him on Night 4. You wolves probably did well deciding to leave him alive, it would have been rather risky for Boro and me otherwise. Not your fault I had to draw the wrong conclusion when I found him alive in the morning...

That´s funny because when we recieved Mac's name from you we had already hatched our plan to make it appear that the wolves had framed Nessa, and killing Mac would've spoiled that plan (though we also wanted him gone, no doubt about that). We feared that you would think Mac was a wolf when we left him alive but thought "never mind, we´ll have his neck the following Night instead to set things straight". That almost backfired badly. The Nessa protection scheme worked a charm sure, but when you voted me and almost had me killed, and then was lynched yourself instead, which incriminated Boro in the process since he had pretended to be the cobbler, we though, ****, maybe this is the beginning of our fall from grace.

But then we nailed Shasta-seer and all of a sudden the sky cleared and birds were singing. That last Day was such a relief after four Days of hard struggle.

I did feel bad for Manwe and Shasta though, I really did.

I´ll try to rep people when I get back home.

[Kitanna]

Wow...I kept up with Nogrod's narrations to see how the village faired. The only thing I had going for me was suspicions of Pitch, but hark, there be the cobbler and not a wolf.

Good job wolfies and excellent narrations Noggie.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Wow.

I've not really been able to pay attention since last Sunday (which is when I died, I think - handily enough) as I've been too busy concentrating on not dying. It seems to be going better, finally.

Anyway, congratulations to the victorious wolves; thanks to Nogrod for the huge game and the (probably) correct decision to go with double-kills, as well as not putting Cailin on the other side from me (that would have caused serious problems); and also thanks to everyone for keeping 'wolvery' in use.

It seems I have a really good Nessa-radar.

++NESSA

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Perhaps so, but I'm not sure about near. I've considered joining for this game, but decided not to, since the most I'd be able to do is about 3-5 posts per day. I don't think I'd make a great player at that rate! I will probably join a game during a break, so that I can participate more.

3-5 posts per day? How many do you think people usually make? In my first game, that's exactly how much I was making every Day, and for that matter, I think that's quite the right amount, unless they are all just one-liners. I mean, as long as you post sensibly and address enough of the important stuff, one post in the "Morning" (e.g. summing up what happened yesterDay and your view of it and of the Night kill, or ideas of what to do next etc.) one in "Mid-Day" (responding to the current situation) and one in the "Evening" (concluding the discussion of toDay) with a vote is the optimum. So, I don't see any problem.

*join us* *join us* *join us*

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*join us* *join us* *join us*

Thank you for the warm invitation! Maybe I'll just watch the next game, and join the one after. YAY! It feels like you're not completely dead until you play WW.

[skip spence]

Had a slow hour and browsed Day 1 again. Thought this was funny:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

...
"The seer/ranger/hunter should do blahdablah"? Or honestly thinking if I say "To the seer, dream of Lottie tonight!" and Shasta's gonna post "Aye Aye master Boro, I'm on it!"
...
It's silly to post "I won't vote for Agan, cus I think she's the ranger."
...

That's a weird coincidence!

Also, Shasta, now I saw that hint to Agan. Jeez, wouldn't we have hated to lose after letting that slip us by! Will keep me eyes on the two of you if we ever play again!

Pretty sweet hinting by Pitch there too, makes me wish we could've returned the favour.

EDIT: And Gal55, I will second Legate's invitation: do join us, you'd make a great ww-player I'm sure

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

That's a weird coincidence!

Ahaha! When I first saw it I wondered if Boro was the seer, but fortunately didn't get too bold and hint at him. That kept me from suspecting him heavily in the beginning though (later I was convinced he was a baddie but tried to give the impression of wavering just so the wolves wouldn't pin me down as a gifted).

[skip spence]

Okay, here's some math:

The likelihood of Boro randomly getting either the ranger or the seer right is 1/19 (and that is assuming he won't use fellow wolves as an example); the likelihood of him getting both right randomly is 1/342 (1/(19*18)) or less than 0,3 %!

My calculations also indicate that I should consider getting a life.

[Boromir88]

Holy ghajiobfnbrihjaf pearls *speechless.* I didn't even realize I did that since I made both as random meaningless comments in an attempt to look important and smart(allicy). hahahaha that's great.