Gandalf to Theoden... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

FingolfintheBold · 09-19-2003, 10:31 PM

This question is rather trivial, but its something ive been wondering a long time. When Theoden awakes or whatever you wanna call it from Saruman's spell, and goes outside to feel the rain slanting on his face, Gandalf whispers to him of a hope for victory, and the King's face lights up and they turn their faces east and all that.

Now i would certainly think that Gandalf was whispering of Frodo, except that right after that he says something along the lines of "There is another hope upon which everything lays that i cannot speak of even to you."

My question is this: If Gandalf was refering to Frodo in the second quote, then what hope for victory did he whisper to the King about the first time? If Gandalf indeed whispered to the King about Frodo, then what was the hidden hope he spoke of? Any ideas to slate my curiosity?

09-20-2003, 02:43 AM

I dont think that Gandalf would risk telling anyone about Frodo at that stage. Saurman was still very dangerous and it would be likely that had he been victorious in battle he would have had Theoden interrogated.

As for the hope Gandalf spoke of, he may have been refering to the Ents, he may have known that they would go to war.

Firnantoonion · 09-20-2003, 05:29 AM

and with a little help of narya, few words are needed to replenish hope...
(after all, that's where gandalf's ring is for: to (re-) light the fires of hope and valour in the hearts of men

[ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: Firnantoonion ]

Melephelwen · 09-20-2003, 05:59 AM

I'm not 100% sure, but couldn't Gandalf have said something about Aragorn, being the returning king and all? That is freaking Sauron out, so you'd suppose it would give hope to f.ex. Theoden, right?

Amarie of the Vanyar · 09-20-2003, 01:14 PM

I think that Gandalf talks about Frodo. Right after whispering to Theoden, and he looks to the East, Gandalf doesn't say 'another hope', he says:

Quote:

'Verily, that way lies our hope, where sits our greatest fear.'
The King of the Golden Hall; LotR

Gandalf talks to Theoden only about one hope. I cannot find a word that suggest that Gandalf tells him any other thing. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Kuruharan · 09-20-2003, 02:03 PM

A few pages on down the way...

Quote:

Not indeed that prize that which Saruman desires above all else, but at least two members of my Company, sharers of a secret hope, of which even to you, lord, I cannot yet speak openly.

That may mean that he just can't talk about it in front of everyone, but it may also mean that Gandalf had not mentioned it to Theoden before.

[ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Amarie of the Vanyar · 09-21-2003, 05:06 AM

Thank you Kuruharan, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I was looking for something right after the moment when Gandalf whispers to Theoden, and didn't find that sentence.

In any case, in my opinion, the words 'speak openly' are only an explanation of why Gandalf had to whisper to Theoden instead of talking aloud about Frodo and the Ring.

tom bombariffic · 09-28-2003, 05:57 AM

Quote:

'Verily, that way lies our hope, where sits our greatest fear.'
The King of the Golden Hall; LotR

Could he just have been talking about Gondor, as he knew in his infinite wisdom that everyhitng in the end would boil down to whether Gondor could hold out against Sauron or not? So basically what im suggesting is that he knew it was down to Gondor (and frodo & sam, of course) to protect the free lands of Middle earth?

About the second hope he speaks of, i think its been fairly clearly proven that he means Fordo and sam.

09-19-2003, 10:31 PM	#1
FingolfintheBold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere between knowing my path and walking it Posts: 69	Gandalf to Theoden... This question is rather trivial, but its something ive been wondering a long time. When Theoden awakes or whatever you wanna call it from Saruman's spell, and goes outside to feel the rain slanting on his face, Gandalf whispers to him of a hope for victory, and the King's face lights up and they turn their faces east and all that. Now i would certainly think that Gandalf was whispering of Frodo, except that right after that he says something along the lines of "There is another hope upon which everything lays that i cannot speak of even to you." My question is this: If Gandalf was refering to Frodo in the second quote, then what hope for victory did he whisper to the King about the first time? If Gandalf indeed whispered to the King about Frodo, then what was the hidden hope he spoke of? Any ideas to slate my curiosity? __________________ There long the golden leaves have grown, upon the branching years, while here beyond the sundering seas, now fall the Elven-tears... but if of ships I now would sing, what ship would come to me, what ship would bear me ever back, across so wide a sea?

09-20-2003, 05:29 AM	#3
Firnantoonion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: a nice, cosy hole in a small hill Posts: 70	and with a little help of narya, few words are needed to replenish hope... (after all, that's where gandalf's ring is for: to (re-) light the fires of hope and valour in the hearts of men [ September 20, 2003: Message edited by: Firnantoonion ] __________________ well, that's that then

09-20-2003, 05:59 AM	#4
Melephelwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: the Middle of Nowhere Posts: 291	I'm not 100% sure, but couldn't Gandalf have said something about Aragorn, being the returning king and all? That is freaking Sauron out, so you'd suppose it would give hope to f.ex. Theoden, right? __________________ We're all following a strange melody We're all summoned by a tune We're following the piper And we dance beneath the moon

09-21-2003, 05:06 AM	#7
Amarie of the Vanyar Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: Valinor Posts: 215	Thank you Kuruharan, [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I was looking for something right after the moment when Gandalf whispers to Theoden, and didn't find that sentence. In any case, in my opinion, the words 'speak openly' are only an explanation of why Gandalf had to whisper to Theoden instead of talking aloud about Frodo and the Ring. __________________ But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile.

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09-20-2003, 02:43 AM	#2
Sephiroth of Tirion Guest Posts: n/a	I dont think that Gandalf would risk telling anyone about Frodo at that stage. Saurman was still very dangerous and it would be likely that had he been victorious in battle he would have had Theoden interrogated. As for the hope Gandalf spoke of, he may have been refering to the Ents, he may have known that they would go to war.