Gothmog and the Mouth

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm sure this theory has been said before I however couldn't find it. Is there any evidence to be found that Gothmog And Or the Mouth of Sauron are the Blue wizards?

[Inziladun]

I don't think I've heard that idea before. I'd think the answer would be 'no' on both counts.

The Mouth is clearly said to be a Man, of Númenórean descent.
The identity of Gothmog isn't as obvious. I suppose my main argument againt him being one of the Blues is this: if Sauron had a servant (or two) of such high spritual stature and power, I would think they would have had greater status and responsibilities under him than being mere field commanders. After all, being angelic Maiar, they would have been peers of Sauron.
Too, if Gothmog had been one of the Istari, I don't think the Witch-king would have to have been the one to use 'sorcery' to break the gate of Minas Tirith.

[Ghazi]

There's no evidence to suggest this but I wonder if Gothmog was the last king of Gondor, Eärnur. He foolishly rode to Minas Morgul and was never seen again by the good guys. I wonder if he was whisked off to the Houses of Lamentation that were mentioned by the Lord of the Nazgul, or used in some other way.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Ghazi

There's no evidence to suggest this but I wonder if Gothmog was the last king of Gondor, Eärnur. He foolishly rode to Minas Morgul and was never seen again by the good guys. I wonder if he was whisked off to the Houses of Lamentation that were mentioned by the Lord of the Nazgul, or used in some other way.

Granted, Eärnur's ultimate end was unknown, since there were no witnesses to his death, but I don't see what mechanism Sauron would have (other than the Nine) of prolonging his life for so long.
And how would he have 'turned' someone like Eärnur to his service, again without making him a wraith through use of the Nine?

[Ghazi]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Granted, Eärnur's ultimate end was unknown, since there were no witnesses to his death, but I don't see what mechanism Sauron would have (other than the Nine) of prolonging his life for so long.
And how would he have 'turned' someone like Eärnur to his service, again without making him a wraith through use of the Nine?

Sauron was a necromancer and it is clear that the Lord of the Nazgul had some ability to extend the lives of the Barrow Wights, which I assume are the disembodied spirits of the Children of Iluvatar.

[Boromir88]

It's not clear that The Mouth was a Black Numenorean, that is only what was said about him, but he was clearly high up in Sauron's hierarchy, and had forgotten his true name (just as the Nazgul remain nameless).

Although I don't think he was one of the blue wizards (as interesting of a question as it is that got me thinking what if?), because in the very late writings Tolkien told a bit more about the Blue Wizards. After Saruman had went East with them and returned alone CT mentions that the two blue wizards were Maia of Orome and can be assumed their mission was to travel (and stay) to the unknown lands of Middle-earth (reasons for why they stayed in the East). There they played a significant role in resisting Sauron and limitting the numbers who joined his armies. However, I think this essay on the Ithryn Luin was very late (I want to say 1970 or '71?) and not sure if it can be considered canon. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

It's not clear that The Mouth was a Black Numenorean, that is only what was said about him, but he was clearly high up in Sauron's hierarchy, and had forgotten his true name (just as the Nazgul remain nameless).

Well, I guess his Númenórean heritage could be questioned, but the implication clearly is that he was a mortal Man, and no Maia.

The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man.

He isn't described as looking particularly old, either, as one would expect from one of the Istari.

[Boromir88]

Ah-ha, got it. Although here, they are called Morinehtar and Romestamo (not Alatar and Pallando as was written in the UT)

But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Romestamo. Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir-up rebellion...and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause dissension and disarray among the dark East...They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarrayinbg the forces of the East, who would both in the Second and Third Age otherwise have, outnumbered the West."~HOME XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth; Last Writings

You can definitely see the issue here, because supposedly the Istari didn't arrive until the TA, yet here Tolkien says the Blue Wizards were influential in the resistance against Sauron in both the 2nd and 3rd ages. However, this was written in 1972, and probably what CT was referring to in his commentary from the UT:

I know of no other writings about the Istari save some very rough and in part uninterpretable notes that are certainly much later than any of the foregoing and probably dates from 1972.~Unfinished Tales: The Istari

Edit: Crossed with Inzil

[Morsul the Dark]

CT always mention his father's illegible notes... Tolkien had horrible andwriting for a linguistt.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

CT always mention his father's illegible notes... Tolkien had horrible andwriting for a linguistt.

Well, that does not have much to do with it. Linguist is focusing on spoken language or old language which is written down, but probably does not care anymore whether somebody in the future will decipher his handwriting