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Old 02-10-2009, 08:36 AM   #25
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,035
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
By the way, my apologies to Morthoron. While I stand by my earlier niggles, in reading the thread more closely it seems Morthoron's response was specifically to explain that the name Teleporno went with the concept of Celeborn being from Aman, as the context was in response to:

Quote:
The thing I am more curious about is the fact that this name clearly invokes Teleperion, one of the two trees. However, this name would be largely incompatible with Tolkien’s history of Celeborn as set in LotR where Celeborn is clearly not from Valinor, if we assume that it is his original name. Therefore Celeborn must be an epesse, given to him by somebody who had seen the two trees - either Melian, Elwe, or one of the returning Noldor.
In other words, if one is going to take Teleporno and construct a theory on it that includes the history of the character, then the corresponding character is that of a Teler from Aman. One goes with the other.

That said, Tolkien imagined a character who had various names to begin with (Tar, Aran, Galdaran, Galathir, Arafain). He settled on Celeborn of course, and JRRT also seems to have had various ideas concerning him, inculding a possible Noldorin history (for this idea see Galadriel note 12, The Treason of Isengard). Celeborn 'Silver tree' keeps his name through subsequent conceptions. This form itself is the same as the name of the Tree of Tol Eressea, and in Appendix E to The History of Galadriel and Celeborn CJRT notes that the meaning was later abandoned for 'Silver tall'. This change is external, though no doubt the form could still be 'wrongly' interpreted 'Silver Tree' by characters within the mythology. Tolkien's note in UT (Appenix E again, as above) appears to want to incorporate this nice confusion, in that both rulers of Lórien appeared to have names that contained a tree word, according to some at least (see the full note).

Basically I think that Teleporno arose from the new history: if Celeborn was to become Telerin he would have a name in Telerin form. Whatever else Tolkien thought about this new name I don't know. Anyway it was a relatively late change and I'm not sure JRRT had remembered what he had already published about Celeborn. This whole concept might go the path of Beorian ros, a rejected later idea, and rejected after JRRT realized he had already published something.

Last edited by Galin; 02-10-2009 at 09:10 AM.
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