The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-01-2007, 09:46 PM   #1
The Failed king
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Did Saruman actually get a second chance

hi i was thinking would the valar give him a second chance remembering they gave sauron one
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 05:59 AM   #2
Raynor
Eagle of the Star
 
Raynor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
Raynor has just left Hobbiton.
Sauron didn't actually receive a second chance - he never made it back to Aman, to be judged:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Of the rings of power and the third age, Silmarillion
When Thangorodrim was broken and Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eonwe the herald of Manwe, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed by the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eonwe to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgement of Manwe. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore when Eonwe departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth bad laid upon him were very strong.
Concerning Saruman, Unfinished Tales state that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unfinished Tales, Part Four, Chapter two: The Istari
Whereas Curunir was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.
__________________
"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."
Raynor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 06:06 AM   #3
Amras Oronar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Zoetermeer
Posts: 29
Amras Oronar has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to Amras Oronar
Tolkien

Raynor, I just red you're second qoute an hour ago so I shall have to agree with you that he did receive a second chance. And Sauron did get second chance, but he did not took it...
Amras Oronar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2007, 10:37 AM   #4
The Might
Guard of the Citadel
 
The Might's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.The Might is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
very good quotes Raynor, I share your opinion on this, just wanted to add another quote from LOTR this time:

Quote:
To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. for a moment it wavered, looking to the West, but out of the West came a cold wind, and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing.
The cold wind out of the west makes it pretty clear that the Valar denied him a second chance.
__________________
“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown
The Might is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:02 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.