Giants and Ogres? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

10-04-2005, 01:39 PM

So what do you guys think about the subject of Ogres and Giants? Personally I believe there is enough evidence to support the fact that they exist in middle earth, but I'd like to hear someone else's opinion

Gurthang · 10-04-2005, 07:19 PM

I've also wondered about this. In the Hobbit, Bilbo mentions Stone Giants hurling rocks during the storm in the Misty Mountains. Whether they are a metaphor, or really giants is up for debate; since they are not mentioned elsewere in Tolkien's works(that I am aware of).

**The Saucepan Man** · 10-04-2005, 07:30 PM

I believe that Gandalf mentions using a Stone Giant's rock to stop up the Goblin cave at the end of The Hobbit.

Glirdan · 10-04-2005, 08:03 PM

Yes, I quite remember both those parts from The Hobbit. It would seem there are giants. Now, what about ogres? Is it possible that instead of using the term ogre, he used giants instead?

Eonwe · 10-04-2005, 08:08 PM

i've always read that part in the hobbit and wondered where else they appeared. i don't think they do.

glirdan, i think giant are really tall peole, ogers are evil, really talk/buff/mean beasts. i wouldn't think that giants and ogers could be used interchangably

The Perky Ent · 10-04-2005, 09:04 PM

A previous Giant Thread

Hope that thread can add to your discussion

Hookbill the Goomba · 10-05-2005, 01:23 AM

I've always made the assumption, although it is completely improvable, that Giants (mainly stone giants) were another breed of Troll. Perhaps ones that looked more 'man-like'. Perhaps Sauron's attempt at a mockery of mankind in his Tolls. It seems to be the only thing, to my mind, that would fit in Middle Earth.

Eonwe · 10-05-2005, 06:05 AM

actually i think it says somewhere that trolls were make in mockery of ents, but they are obviously weaker (stone in daylight, not as strong, not as smart, etc.).

Elladan and Elrohir · 10-05-2005, 08:40 PM

Giants are also mentioned in Sam and Ted's conversation at the Green Dragon in Book I, Chapter II.

If giants appeared only in The Hobbit, I would say that this is a fairy-tale embellishment by Tolkien (similar to the cockney trolls) and not to be taken seriously when considering Middle-earth proper. But, the reference in LOTR changes all that. Then again, as far as I know, giants are never again mentioned or alluded to in the slightest way in any of Tolkien's other writings.

Ogres are, I believe, never mentioned in any of Tolkien's writings.

10-04-2005, 01:39 PM	#1
Maiar Master Guest Posts: n/a	Giants and Ogres? So what do you guys think about the subject of Ogres and Giants? Personally I believe there is enough evidence to support the fact that they exist in middle earth, but I'd like to hear someone else's opinion

10-04-2005, 07:19 PM	#2
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	I've also wondered about this. In the Hobbit, Bilbo mentions Stone Giants hurling rocks during the storm in the Misty Mountains. Whether they are a metaphor, or really giants is up for debate; since they are not mentioned elsewere in Tolkien's works(that I am aware of). __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

10-04-2005, 07:30 PM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	I believe that Gandalf mentions using a Stone Giant's rock to stop up the Goblin cave at the end of The Hobbit. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

10-04-2005, 08:03 PM	#4
Glirdan Energetic Essence Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew Posts: 3,285	Yes, I quite remember both those parts from The Hobbit. It would seem there are giants. Now, what about ogres? Is it possible that instead of using the term ogre, he used giants instead? __________________ *I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!* Fenris Wolf

10-04-2005, 08:08 PM	#5
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	i've always read that part in the hobbit and wondered where else they appeared. i don't think they do. glirdan, i think giant are really tall peole, ogers are evil, really talk/buff/mean beasts. i wouldn't think that giants and ogers could be used interchangably __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!

10-04-2005, 09:04 PM	#6
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	A previous Giant Thread Hope that thread can add to your discussion __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

10-05-2005, 01:23 AM	#7
Hookbill the Goomba Alive without breath Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla Posts: 5,912	Rats in the pipe I've always made the assumption, although it is completely improvable, that Giants (mainly stone giants) were another breed of Troll. Perhaps ones that looked more 'man-like'. Perhaps Sauron's attempt at a mockery of mankind in his Tolls. It seems to be the only thing, to my mind, that would fit in Middle Earth. __________________ I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket... Last edited by Hookbill the Goomba; 10-05-2005 at 01:24 AM. Reason: Rats in the Pipe

10-05-2005, 06:05 AM	#8
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	actually i think it says somewhere that trolls were make in mockery of ents, but they are obviously weaker (stone in daylight, not as strong, not as smart, etc.). __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!

10-05-2005, 08:40 PM	#9
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Giants are also mentioned in Sam and Ted's conversation at the Green Dragon in Book I, Chapter II. If giants appeared only in The Hobbit, I would say that this is a fairy-tale embellishment by Tolkien (similar to the cockney trolls) and not to be taken seriously when considering Middle-earth proper. But, the reference in LOTR changes all that. Then again, as far as I know, giants are never again mentioned or alluded to in the slightest way in any of Tolkien's other writings. Ogres are, I believe, never mentioned in any of Tolkien's writings. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

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