Middle Earth Architecture

I dont know if this has been discused before but I had recently notices that Gondor and the Elves were the only civilizations that built towers, I believe that gondor builds towers because of the lineage to numenor, who were part elven, if im not mistaken. But you may say about Barad-Dur, I have through about this, and since sauron was under the service of melkor in the first age, and most of melkor's creations were made in mockery of other races (elves/orcs, trolls/ents etc.) so I believe that sauron, taking a page from Melkor, built Barad-Dur as a mockery of Minas Tirith and Minas Ithil. What do you nthink?

[mark12_30]

I think you'll need to add valar/maiar to the list, since there are towers in Valinor; and that would take care of Sauron, and Melkor too (recall the Thangorodrim.)

And if you change "Gondor" to "Numenoreans", then you've got something interesting: Valar/Maiar, Elves, Numenoreans. Dol Amroth and Isengard, Minas Anor and Minas Ithil-- i think those are all of Numenorean origin? Elves of course built the white towers on the Tower Hills past the Shire.

Who built Amon Sul...? I forget.

[akhtene]

Amon Sul was built by Elendil (Numenorian) for keeping the Palantir

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I think it's logical to make high buildings when living at the sea like the Valar and the Numenoreans at some point did. They didn't have light houses (except in Mordor in the 3rd age...ehh - sorry) but a high building can be seen quite far on a clear day like one can see far from a tower as well. It's also an advantage in war if the approaching enemy can be seen as early as possible.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

The Rohirrim, while related to Numenoreans, weren't Numenoreans. So did
they build and/or improve Helm's Deep, or did Gondorians when they lived in
Calenardhon? (As Gondorians did build Orthanc).

Im pretty sure the Rohirrim built Helms Deep, I think it was Helm Hammerhand.

[mark12_30]

But does Helm's Deep qualify as a "tower"? It strikes me more as a fortress.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

But does Helm's Deep qualify as a "tower"? It strikes me more as a fortress.

Well, the Hornburg was a castle and so had towers. But, no, it was not a tower in the same way that Orthanc or Barad-Dur were.

Originally Posted by gilgalad_the_Valiant

Im pretty sure the Rohirrim built Helms Deep, I think it was Helm Hammerhand.

It was built by the Gondorians when the Deeping Coomb formed part of their realm. It was within the land of Calenardhom granted by Cirion to Eorl, and so became a place of refuge for the Rohirrim. Helm Hammerhand and his people took refuge there when Rohan was invaded by Dunlendings, and the fortification as a whole (of which the Hornburg was a part) takes its "current" name from him.

[Bêthberry]

What I find fascinating is the absence of a particular kind of tower--or, at least, a tower of legend. Or perhaps I have forgotten about a reference?

Tolkien 'builds' mythological references into his Legendarium--Akallabêth is a rewriting of the Atlantis myth. And he is profoundly interested in language. Yet his Legendarium does not have something like the Tower of Babel to account for the diversity of languages. Perhaps his professional interest in philology meant he lacked sufficient interest in this event?

Can anyone recall anything in the Letters about the Tower of Babel?

[Lalwendë]

Just had a quick look through 'Letters' and I couldn't immediately spot anything abut the Tower of Babel. But, surely Tolkien would have found the tale to have resulted in something good, seeing as he was a philologist? It does have similarities to the story of the downfall of Numenor - men getting 'above themselves', trying to get too close to something which they ought to remain apart from, and the result of this excess being divine intervention in the form of destruction. But the result of the Tower of Babel was that all men spoke many different languages, surely something Tolkien would approve of?

I've always thought of the image of the 'tower' as being something drawn more from medieval legend and onwards, but maybe someone can prove me wrong?

About Helm's Deep, my father told me an interesting story. Apparently there is or was a fortress in the India/Pakistan region which is constructed along identical lines. He read about this a long time ago but could not recall exactly where the fortress was. If any 'Downers know of this, it might be interesting to compare the two.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Hmmm. . .Babel eh?

Seems to me that what forms a minor incident in the Bible is for Tolkien the "whole" story. When the Elves 'awoke' they spoke a single language, but the instant they began to fragment and fall away from their destiny (that is, when the Avari decided not to go into the West, and when there were other houses of Elves that fell away on the journey into the West) that is when the original language of the Elves began to fragment and devolve into new languages.

This seems to happen again and again -- with every sundering (between Elves and Men, and then within the races themselves) there are new languages. It's like the Tower of Babel is falling all the time.

Only the Dwarves seem able to hold onto their common language, but only by hoarding it and keeping it secret and away from others. Their language is not really a 'living' tongue but kind of a museum piece.

This, however, has nothing to do with towers so I shall be quiet. Although I might say, the preponderence of towers might be some form of allusion to the Tower of Babel???

[mark12_30]

Fordie, have you read "Splintering of Light" by Fliegel? Child recommended it. You are connecting with it language-wise.

There are threads discussing this somewhere in books; try a search on "splintered"?

Bus to catch, must run...