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06-24-2004, 08:48 AM | #1 | |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,381
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Before the Black Gate
During a re-reading of LoTR, I was struck by a few passages in the chapter "The Passage of the Marshes". Late in this chapter, Tolkien describes the lands before the Black Gate. This is some of his most descriptive and vivid writing, and likely hearkens back to his own memories of the trenches in the French no-man's land (indeed he uses this very term, "Noman-lands") during World War I. He writes, in part, as follows:
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Why does Sauron allow the lands before his Gate to be filled with potential hiding places? Would it not make more sense to reduce these lands to a flat, featureless plain which would allow anyone crossing it to be seen from miles away? In fact, this "Noman-land" allows Frodo, Sam and Gollum to escape detection and pass on to the south and west of Mordor where they eventually enter the Black Land. It seems to me that allowing his front yard to be so unkempt is a gross error in strategy that runs contrary to all military reasoning.
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06-24-2004, 09:02 AM | #2 |
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
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I don't suppose that he ever imagined that any of his enemies would ever wish to enter Mordor, or even come near the place, without an army in tow.
Also, Hobbits (and Gollumnified proto-Hobbits) are terribly good at hiding. Perhaps larger and less stealthy types would have less success at avoiding detection.
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06-24-2004, 10:52 AM | #3 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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Mithadan
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06-24-2004, 01:43 PM | #4 |
Wight
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving.
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davem, I like that quote. Also, I think that the thrown away barrenness of it is designed to make it harder for an army to approach, no flat easy plain, but full of pits and requiring detours. It would inspire enemies with dread, fear, and depression when they see how Sauron and his minions defile all life around them.
Sort of "Abandon hope, all ye who enter". And anyway, it was inconceivable that any would come "sneaking" in in such few numbers, as Saucepan indicates.
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06-24-2004, 02:03 PM | #5 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Sauron and Hitler? The fall of 2 evils.
Davem
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1) Hitler knew the 2-front war caused Germany to lose WW1. To avoid this Hitler signed a pact with Stalin to keep him out of the war so Germany wouldn't have to fight 2 fronts. Hitler easily takes all of Western Europe, except Britain, he lost the Battle of Britain. Hitler's mistake comes when he believes Britain is too beat up to do anything so he turns to Russia and starts attacking Russia, well Britain wasn't beaten and soon they would land with American's and allies at Normandy opening up a 2-front war. Actually 3-fronts since soon Italy will fall and forces would be coming from Italy. 2) Simple one Hitler let the same mistake Napolean made when attacking Russia. Hitler kept driving through Russia in the awful cold winters of Russia losing many troops, they lose the Battle of Stalingrad then Russia starts pushing back. 3) Hitler made ill use of his allies, both Mussolini and Stalin signed agreements with Hitler. It really wasn't an "alliance" because all Hitler was doing was just telling them to stay out of the way, do whatever you want just don't fight Germany. He should have used Russia and Italy to his advantage. Now onto Sauron, you will find a few mistakes Sauron made to be his final destruction and are very much similar to Hitler's mistakes. 1) Sauron again didn't make good use of his ally. Similar to Hitler's agreements with Russia and Italy, Sauron just used Saruman for his own advantage instead of really being an "alliance." I guess you might refer to it as a "weak alliance," Sauron and Saruman hated eachother but both wanted the same thing. 2) Sauron empties mordor to go fight the defenders of the west in front of the Black Gate, while Frodo and Sam slip through the back. Again similar to Hitler who turned his back on Western Europe and focused on the "prize." This is where Saurons arrogance got in the way. Right now I can't think of any real other mistakes Sauron made besides his thought process of "no one can contend with me," so if someone finds another "mistake" that Sauron made please post it. |
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06-24-2004, 03:53 PM | #6 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
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Keeping up with technology
Ah! A very good question, Mithadan.
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I have a very limited understanding of WWI tactics, but I do seem to recall that in hindsight it became very obvious (if not at the time to the men in the trenches) that the generals' understanding of tactics had not kept up with the technology of modern warfare. They used strategies and tactics more suited to pre-machine gun warfare. The very idea of trench warfare, which demanded that men rise up out of trenches and charge straight into guns with large rounds of ammunition in fact derived from the old idea of pitched battle, where one simply form lines (or regimental squares, etc) and marched straight into the enemies' lines, with bayonets/ axes/ swords, etc swinging. This was one thing when the enemy had a weapon with limited capacity to kill at a distance. It was quite another with the array of modern weapons which enabled one soldier to mow down many attackers with one weapon. In short, the generals who learned their warfare on the playing fields of Eton lacked imagination. Perhaps this is Tolkien's way to suggest that so also does Sauron. Ironic, of course. On the other hand, it could also suggest Sauron's lack of appreciation for the effects of technology on the landscape. He just does not realise that his technology creates (or allows) the very conditions of his downfall. A little below your excerpt in my edition is this passage: Quote:
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06-24-2004, 04:44 PM | #7 |
Night In Wight Satin
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 4,043
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In other words, the desolation was like a work of art to Sauron, and he loved the way it looked so much that he couldn't bear to clean it up. Kind of like the criminal who takes a souvenier from the scene of a crime knowing that it might lead to his capture at a later date. It seems dumb in hindsight, but the crook never imagines someone will search his pockets.
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06-25-2004, 08:00 AM | #8 |
Hungry Ghoul
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,719
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The terrain in front of the gate only provided very little cover, barely enough for three hobbits, not enough for Aragorn's army. At a point where the Black Gate is even less possible to assail because of Sauron's strength, I doubt he'd need to bother with the threat of 10 soldiers lying in wait of his storey-high fortress. As for spies, it's hard enough to hide a whole Haradrim army anyway, the enemy might as well see them and despair, an effect to which the landscape itself can contribute.
Moreover, the obstacles there seems to be at least somewhat recently formed, or at least that's possible with ash dunes, rocks (from eruptions?), and shallow pools. Such a frontyard would be hard to maintain, but maybe Sauron did do so at a time when he perceived himself as more vulnerable. |
06-28-2004, 09:36 PM | #9 |
Haunting Spirit
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I agree, Sharkű. All the igneous activity, landslides, and whatever else might logically have been going on in the area would make the landscape almost constantly change. Why spend time constantly clearing up over there when Sauron could be training his armies, building new wings onto his fortress, planning attacks, or gloating? Especially when there was almost no chance at all in his mind of someone using the area to attack him? Also, why spend time cleaning it up when he could use it, like Theron said, to even more thoroughly discourage anyone and everyone. So many things that the "bad guys" in Tolkien's writing do are based on frightening and intimidating the enemy. (And, come to think of it, frightening and intimidating their allies, too.)
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