Where and Back Again?! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

doug*platypus · 12-22-2003, 05:04 PM

Hi !! This thread is to bring together all of those whacky times when PJ sends 'em away, and they come back later. You know of what I speak.Case in point: Éomer. Wormtongue banishes Éomer and basically the entire army of Rohan. They go away... north, somewhere. Later, Gandalf tracks them down, they come back and victoriously change the course of the Battle of Helm's Deep. Yay!So, when else during the trilogy does this happen? Who does it happen to and why were they sent away? Is there precedent in the books, and if not was the round trip credible? Why did the daytrippers come back, and was this believable?

Beruthiel · 12-22-2003, 09:13 PM

Well didn't that happen with Sam and Frodo? Frodo sent Sam away but then Sam returns to him and saves him... even though he leaves Frodo for dead after his battle with Shelob. But still the same principle

Lord of Angmar · 12-22-2003, 09:49 PM

Err... Elrond shows up at the camp at Dunharrow... then... the wedding at the Citadel. In between? ...

Theron Bugtussle · 12-23-2003, 11:43 AM

Aragorn sent away to die in the Warg-attack-that-didn't-happen-in-the-book-but-was-so-much-better-in-the-movie-because-I-am-Peter-Jackson scene. He came back in the if-one-is-good-then-two-is-better-so-why-settle-for-only-Gandalf-resurrecting? scene.

HCIsland · 12-23-2003, 11:49 AM

Gandalf falls with the Balrog and comes back to take control of things again.Arwen is sent off by Elrond only to return and play a roll in him sending Anduril to Aragorn.

Jjudvven · 12-23-2003, 03:33 PM

Ahh, the Yo-Yo effect. Denethor sending Pippin away, only to have him return with Gandalf and save the day.

Kalimac · 12-23-2003, 04:02 PM

Frodo angrily pitching Gollum down into a quarry near Shelob's lair, only to have him pop up again on Sauron's Road and eventually save the day for the good guys. Nobody appreciates poor Smeagol, No, Preciousss!

balrogman · 12-23-2003, 09:55 PM

ummm it happens to Faramir, he is sent on the suicide mission and is the only one to come back

Lady Snickerdoodle · 12-24-2003, 09:34 AM

Well, Merry and Pip went away (actually, were taken) but they came back. Wait, does that count? because movie showed them in between too...

Theron Bugtussle · 12-24-2003, 11:32 AM

Any item submitted here is off-topic if it is in Tolkien's text. This is for Peter Jackson doing something weird.I guess that rules out: - Gandalf and the Balrog - Denethor and Pippin - Faramir's suicide mission.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 12-24-2003, 03:01 PM

Does this one count?The Ents appear to be ready for war. They then decide not to go and then suddenly change their minds after seeing a few tree stumps and head off to Isengard.A bit hasty for my liking.

doug*platypus · 12-26-2003, 05:22 AM

Absolutely, Eomer! That's exactly what I was talking about, and an example that I hadn't consciously noticed before. I'm talking about all the times where a character goes off on a tangent in one direction (usually with little or no explanation), only to turn 180 degrees later (also usually with little or no explanation). This little ploy is used time and time again by the writers! Another little one would be the Evenstar. It leaves Aragorn, as apparently it's much more likely that he lose his necklace in the fall than his sword. Later it is returned to him, consuming precious seconds of screen time for no clear reason. I can't see what the point of that particular loss and finding was.

Theron Bugtussle · 12-29-2003, 02:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>doug*platypus: Another little one would be the Evenstar. It leaves Aragorn...Later it is returned to him, consuming precious seconds of screen time for no clear reason. I can't see what the point of that particular loss and finding was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*mutters* Probably had something to do with Aragorn losing and refinding his lost love for Arwen. Off and on during all the movies, PJ revisits his completely invented story line that only Arwen knows who she loves and how much. The sense that Aragorn has no real love for Arwen, no self-respect, no sense of destiny, no poetic soul for his place in history compared to Beren with Luthien. Talk about wasting precious screen time!*continues muttering* For instance, I really do not know why PJ included Aragorn singing part of the Lay of Luthien in FotR-EE...PJ simply murders that part of Tolkien's story with all his movie-gorn wishy-washiness.*Harrumph!*

12-22-2003, 05:04 PM	#1
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Where and Back Again?! <B>Hi !!</B> <P>This thread is to bring together all of those whacky times when <B>PJ sends 'em away, and they come back later</B>. You know of what I speak.<P>Case in point: Éomer. Wormtongue banishes Éomer and basically the entire army of Rohan. They go away... north, somewhere. Later, Gandalf tracks them down, they come back and victoriously change the course of the Battle of Helm's Deep. Yay!<P>So, when else during the trilogy does this happen? Who does it happen to and why were they sent away? Is there precedent in the books, and if not was the round trip credible? Why did the daytrippers come back, and was this believable? __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-22-2003, 09:13 PM	#2
Beruthiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Set adrift on the Great Sea Posts: 373	Well didn't that happen with Sam and Frodo? Frodo sent Sam away but then Sam returns to him and saves him... even though he leaves Frodo for dead after his battle with Shelob. But still the same principle __________________ ~I am not young enough to know everything~ Oscar Wilde

12-22-2003, 09:49 PM	#3
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Err... Elrond shows up at the camp at Dunharrow... then... the wedding at the Citadel. In between? <P><BR>... __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

12-23-2003, 11:43 AM	#4
Theron Bugtussle Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving. Posts: 147	Aragorn sent away to die in the Warg-attack-that-didn't-happen-in-the-book-but-was-so-much-better-in-the-movie-because-I-am-Peter-Jackson scene. He came back in the if-one-is-good-then-two-is-better-so-why-settle-for-only-Gandalf-resurrecting? scene. __________________ For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers

12-23-2003, 11:49 AM	#5
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Gandalf falls with the Balrog and comes back to take control of things again.<P>Arwen is sent off by Elrond only to return and play a roll in him sending Anduril to Aragorn. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

12-23-2003, 03:33 PM	#6
Jjudvven Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Land to the West Posts: 154	Ahh, the Yo-Yo effect. <P>Denethor sending Pippin away, only to have him return with Gandalf and save the day. __________________ "I don't know all of you as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve."

12-23-2003, 04:02 PM	#7
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Frodo angrily pitching Gollum down into a quarry near Shelob's lair, only to have him pop up again on Sauron's Road and eventually save the day for the good guys. Nobody appreciates poor Smeagol, No, Preciousss! __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

12-23-2003, 09:55 PM	#8
balrogman Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: that place with the stuff Posts: 102	ummm it happens to Faramir, he is sent on the suicide mission and is the only one to come back __________________ should i stay or should i go?

12-24-2003, 09:34 AM	#9
Lady Snickerdoodle Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: in the cookie jar Posts: 256	Well, Merry and Pip went away (actually, were taken) but they came back. Wait, does that count? because movie showed them in between too... __________________ "Let me handle this, I'm British." ~hitchhikers guide

12-24-2003, 11:32 AM	#10
Theron Bugtussle Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving. Posts: 147	Any item submitted here is off-topic if it is in Tolkien's text. This is for Peter Jackson doing something weird.<P>I guess that rules out:<BR>- Gandalf and the Balrog<BR>- Denethor and Pippin<BR>- Faramir's suicide mission. __________________ For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers

12-24-2003, 03:01 PM	#11
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Does this one count?<P>The Ents appear to be ready for war. They then decide not to go and then suddenly change their minds after seeing a few tree stumps and head off to Isengard.<P>A bit hasty for my liking. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

12-26-2003, 05:22 AM	#12
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	<B>Absolutely</B>, Eomer! That's exactly what I was talking about, and an example that I hadn't consciously noticed before. I'm talking about all the times where a character goes off on a tangent in one direction (usually with little or no explanation), only to turn 180 degrees later (also usually with little or no explanation). This little ploy is used time and time again by the writers! <P>Another little one would be the Evenstar. It leaves Aragorn, as apparently it's much more likely that he lose his necklace in the fall than his sword. Later it is returned to him, consuming precious seconds of screen time for no clear reason. I can't see what the point of that particular loss and finding was. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-29-2003, 02:05 PM	#13
Theron Bugtussle Wight Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Blowing the froth off a couple in this quaint little pub in Michel Delving. Posts: 147	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><B>dougplatypus</B>: Another little one would be the Evenstar. It leaves Aragorn...Later it is returned to him, consuming precious seconds of screen time for no clear reason. I can't see what the point of that particular loss and finding was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>mutters* Probably had something to do with Aragorn losing and refinding his lost love for Arwen. Off and on during all the movies, PJ revisits his <I>completely invented</I> story line that only Arwen knows who she loves and how much. The sense that Aragorn has no real love for Arwen, no self-respect, no sense of destiny, no poetic soul for his place in history compared to Beren with Luthien. Talk about wasting precious screen time!<P>continues muttering For instance, I really do not know why PJ included Aragorn singing part of the Lay of Luthien in FotR-EE...PJ simply murders that part of Tolkien's story with all his <I>movie-gorn wishy-washiness</I>.<P>Harrumph! __________________ For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers

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