Another One Bites the Dust - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Manwe Sulimo · 12-31-2002, 05:27 PM

Okay, enough lamenting over Haldir. He's still around, even if it is in Valinor.This thread is to lament the death of valiant Háma, who died about an hour before he was supposed to. I was disappointed that he bit the dust by being bit (by a warg, no less) during a battle that never happened. Thoughts about this valiant man from the Riddermark?Also, it was "Haleth son of Háma", right? That kid with the good sword? Poor him.

Beruthiel · 12-31-2002, 07:12 PM

I don't think anyone (apart from me) noticed that in the cinema, it was awful sad for that boy, his dad killed then having to fight in a war with no hope for himself. Very grim...

Kalimac · 12-31-2002, 07:18 PM

I noticed that as well; of course there could be more than one guy named Hama but it would seem a little pointless to put it in otherwise . It did seem a little wrong to have Hama die in the Warg attack (though I'll admit the wargs themselves were pretty impressive) but I'm guessing it's because Haldir was slated to die at Helm's Deep and they didn't want to slow-motion-kill off too many minor characters there. Interestingly enough Haleth is a girls' name in the Silmarillion; odd, that. But she was rather stereotypically masculine for the time (not marrying, becoming a leader of the tribe and so forth) so maybe it became one of those names that can be used for either a girl or a boy, or just became a boys' name altogether.

Man-of-the-Wold · 12-31-2002, 07:29 PM

Yeah, that's right that's where Hama bit it, which was a good scene, and the Books talk about such attacks. So, I don't find it so egregious that they staged one at the point where the film was compositing the Theodan's ride to Helm's Deep, the Battle of the Fords of Isen, and the fleeing of people to Dunharrow and other refuges; the aftermath with Aragorn was a bit of an eye-roller, though.Thanks for identifying the significance of the "boy" that Aragorn later tries to enhearten. I wasn't sure what was up with that, or if it wasn't supposed to be a young women masqueradeing as an allusion to Eowyn's little stunt.The various tranferrals of lines and positions from book to film amoung Hama, Halmir, Gamling/Erkenbrand, Eomer, Theoden, Grima, etc. was interesting and par for the course with Movie adaptations.I did feel that after the first part of the film had dealt so efficiently but also quite effectively with several chapters of the book -- it was quick but well done -- it was vexing to then have so much time spent with sappy lead-up to the Helm's Deep battle and all of the stuff about hope and courage.I know that's the big climax and many of the scenes were very poignant, but it got too predictable and drawn-out, especially after so much material is omitted for the sake of film-making.

Gorwingel · 12-31-2002, 07:29 PM

I wish they would have made a bigger deal about his death, but yeah, they don't want to make a big deal about the deaths of too many minor charaters.Being killed by a Warg, not a very good way to go

doug*platypus · 01-01-2003, 06:57 AM

I can understand how a filmmaker needs to change things from a book to smooth the translation to big-screen. But I can't understand how so many changes have been made to LOTR that just don't make sense. Theoden's speech to Saruman is one of the great speeches of bookTTT - "and they hewed the body of Hama at Helm's Deep after he was dead!" The deaths of Hama and Theodred are part of Theoden's anger towards Saruman. Maybe since Theodred's death was concentrated on (but not really explained!) so heavily PJ didn't feel the need to cry about Hama. All in all, movieTheoden is much less sympathetic than the guy in the book. We see how sad he is to lose his son, but he seems to be really uncaring and self-centred, more like Denethor. Hama was dead in about two seconds, and didn't even really die heroically. I think the only people that really cared about him would be those that read the book. Poor Hama.

12-31-2002, 05:27 PM	#1
Manwe Sulimo Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Taurelilómëa-tumbalemorna Tumbaletaurëa Lómëanor Posts: 553	Another One Bites the Dust Okay, enough lamenting over Haldir. He's still around, even if it is in Valinor.<P>This thread is to lament the death of valiant Háma, who died about an hour before he was supposed to. I was disappointed that he bit the dust by being bit (by a warg, no less) during a battle that never happened. Thoughts about this valiant man from the Riddermark?<P>Also, it was "Haleth son of Háma", right? That kid with the good sword? Poor him. __________________ "Monkeys learn sign language so they can tell the dolphins they love them."

12-31-2002, 07:12 PM	#2
Beruthiel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Set adrift on the Great Sea Posts: 373	I don't think anyone (apart from me) noticed that in the cinema, it was awful sad for that boy, his dad killed then having to fight in a war with no hope for himself. Very grim... __________________ ~I am not young enough to know everything~ Oscar Wilde

12-31-2002, 07:18 PM	#3
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	I noticed that as well; of course there could be more than one guy named Hama but it would seem a little pointless to put it in otherwise . It did seem a little wrong to have Hama die in the Warg attack (though I'll admit the wargs themselves were pretty impressive) but I'm guessing it's because Haldir was slated to die at Helm's Deep and they didn't want to slow-motion-kill off too many minor characters there. <P>Interestingly enough Haleth is a girls' name in the Silmarillion; odd, that. But she was rather stereotypically masculine for the time (not marrying, becoming a leader of the tribe and so forth) so maybe it became one of those names that can be used for either a girl or a boy, or just became a boys' name altogether. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

12-31-2002, 07:29 PM	#4
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	Yeah, that's right that's where Hama bit it, which was a good scene, and the Books talk about such attacks. So, I don't find it so egregious that they staged one at the point where the film was compositing the Theodan's ride to Helm's Deep, the Battle of the Fords of Isen, and the fleeing of people to Dunharrow and other refuges; the aftermath with Aragorn was a bit of an eye-roller, though.<P>Thanks for identifying the significance of the "boy" that Aragorn later tries to enhearten. I wasn't sure what was up with that, or if it wasn't supposed to be a young women masqueradeing as an allusion to Eowyn's little stunt.<P>The various tranferrals of lines and positions from book to film amoung Hama, Halmir, Gamling/Erkenbrand, Eomer, Theoden, Grima, etc. was interesting and par for the course with Movie adaptations.<P>I did feel that after the first part of the film had dealt so efficiently but also quite effectively with several chapters of the book -- it was quick but well done -- it was vexing to then have so much time spent with sappy lead-up to the Helm's Deep battle and all of the stuff about hope and courage.<P>I know that's the big climax and many of the scenes were very poignant, but it got too predictable and drawn-out, especially after so much material is omitted for the sake of film-making. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.

12-31-2002, 07:29 PM	#5
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	I wish they would have made a bigger deal about his death, but yeah, they don't want to make a big deal about the deaths of too many minor charaters.<P>Being killed by a Warg, not a very good way to go __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

01-01-2003, 06:57 AM	#6
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I can understand how a filmmaker needs to change things from a book to smooth the translation to big-screen. But I can't understand how so many changes have been made to LOTR that just don't make sense. Theoden's speech to Saruman is one of the great speeches of bookTTT - "and they hewed the body of Hama at Helm's Deep after he was dead!" The deaths of Hama and Theodred are part of Theoden's anger towards Saruman. Maybe since Theodred's death was concentrated on (but not really explained!) so heavily PJ didn't feel the need to cry about Hama. All in all, movieTheoden is much less sympathetic than the guy in the book. We see how sad he is to lose his son, but he seems to be really uncaring and self-centred, more like Denethor. Hama was dead in about two seconds, and didn't even really die heroically. I think the only people that really cared about him would be those that read the book. Poor Hama. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

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