Who buries Arwen? - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-28-2003, 05:24 AM

It was Miriel, mother of Feanor.

Man-of-the-Wold · 03-09-2003, 01:57 PM

And that was in Aman. And Miriel was a true elf dying of extreme weariness.

LoTR says that Arwen has a grave, and one may assume that her physical remains would decay. But one can believe whatever one wants.

Tony Puckett · 03-10-2003, 09:54 AM

Hey, I'm the newest member! Whoo hoo! Anyways... back to the topic at hand... sorry for the interruption.

03-10-2003, 01:58 PM

The story of Miriel is not comparable to that of Arwen at all.
Her soul simply passed to the halls of Mandos, while her body lay in Lorien (the one in Valinor), which is where all elven souls go when they "die", for example when they are slain in battle.
Contrary to humans elven souls are bound within the confines of ME. The human death is actually conceived of as a apecial priviledge, because it means that their souls can transcend the confines of the material world (i.e. ME).

Ruler of the Frogs · 03-18-2003, 03:26 PM

As stupid as this may sound, what if it was due to some kind of magic? The hill grew over her, or leaves or something. Perhaps the combined magic of Lorien and Arwen (being an Elf still, and close with nature) caused nature to speed up a bit and have the hill/moss/leaves/whatever grow over her.

Oricon Ancalime · 06-01-2003, 03:47 PM

Yep. That would have been Fëanor's mother- his fëa was basically too strong when he was born, and it killed her.

Ouch.

Finwe · 06-01-2003, 03:49 PM

Arwen's body could just have decayed, and grass/the hill could have grown "over" her in that way. If a corpse is left outside for long enough, then the ground can indeed grow "over" them.

Tinuviel of Denton · 06-06-2003, 12:07 AM

Um, I know that you've sort of gotten away from the Arwen/Luthien comparison, but anyway.

Tolkien states somewhere (I think) that Luthien was the only elf whose fëa actually left the world. That was because she actually went directly to Mandos to make him give her back Beren and traded her immortality for another chance for Beren. Arwen wasn't mortal per say, she died in a similar fashion to Miriel, only of grief, rather than weariness.

And if this is completely off, just ignore me.

Aredhel Idril Telcontar · 06-06-2003, 08:59 AM

Yeah, but Miriel was a full elf, and Arwen was half-elven. She and her brothers had the privilege of choice.
As for Miriel's body not decaying, it didn't because Este's maidens tended it.
Says so in Silm [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Morgoth the Great · 07-03-2003, 06:43 PM

i heard that she just plodded(lovely word) off to Lorien and died. bit silly really, if u think about it

Gryphon Hall · 07-06-2003, 05:07 AM

It seems a bit unfair, doesn't it, if Arwen decays and decomposes, but Aragorn back in Gondor is not.

That doesn't mean that she wouldn't, though.

Evisse the Blue · 08-09-2003, 03:12 PM

Quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arwen vanimelda namárië! he said, and then he drew breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled. ...
And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Figure it out!

By pointing out 'living' -are you suggesting that the ghost of Aragorn may have come back to Cerin Amroth to bury Arwen?
Seriously, though, maybe his spirit did come back to ease her final passing. But this is wild and flippant speculation (though it could make a good fan fic topic) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Still, apart from this, something always intrigued me about that linecame there never again as living man. . Of course, it could be just Tolkien's rather pretentious style, but I have the impression that something is being hinted at.

Finwe · 08-09-2003, 03:18 PM

Well, you never know. Perhaps at Arwen's last moment, the shade of Aragorn appeared by her side, and sort of led her to the Halls of Men (an arbitrary name for the place where Men go when they die). Perhaps Tolkien would have wanted it that way, we'll never know. It's another one of those things that are comparable to the Witch-king "prophecy." On one hand, it could have been a moment of inspiration for Tolkien, or, he could have gotten a kick out of watching all of us sweat over little things like that. You take your pick.

Evisse the Blue · 08-09-2003, 03:34 PM

Quote:

On one hand, it could have been a moment of inspiration for Tolkien, or, he could have gotten a kick out of watching all of us sweat over little things like that. You take your pick.

I sometimes wonder what would happen if Tolkien got a chance to post something on this board. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
But I digress, sorry.

02-28-2003, 05:24 AM	#41
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	It was Miriel, mother of Feanor. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

03-09-2003, 01:57 PM	#42
Man-of-the-Wold Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin Posts: 239	And that was in Aman. And Miriel was a true elf dying of extreme weariness. LoTR says that Arwen has a grave, and one may assume that her physical remains would decay. But one can believe whatever one wants. __________________ The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled.

03-10-2003, 09:54 AM	#43
Tony Puckett Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The shadow of the Tower of Icthalion Posts: 12	Hey, I'm the newest member! Whoo hoo! Anyways... back to the topic at hand... sorry for the interruption. __________________ "Therefore be silent, and keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a serving-man till the lightning falls."

03-18-2003, 03:26 PM	#45
Ruler of the Frogs Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Tirith Posts: 49	As stupid as this may sound, what if it was due to some kind of magic? The hill grew over her, or leaves or something. Perhaps the combined magic of Lorien and Arwen (being an Elf still, and close with nature) caused nature to speed up a bit and have the hill/moss/leaves/whatever grow over her. __________________ What a joy to meet! We only wish to catch a fish, so juicy-sweet!

06-01-2003, 03:49 PM	#47
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Arwen's body could just have decayed, and grass/the hill could have grown "over" her in that way. If a corpse is left outside for long enough, then the ground can indeed grow "over" them. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

03-10-2003, 01:58 PM	#44
eledhwen Guest Posts: n/a	The story of Miriel is not comparable to that of Arwen at all. Her soul simply passed to the halls of Mandos, while her body lay in Lorien (the one in Valinor), which is where all elven souls go when they "die", for example when they are slain in battle. Contrary to humans elven souls are bound within the confines of ME. The human death is actually conceived of as a apecial priviledge, because it means that their souls can transcend the confines of the material world (i.e. ME).

06-01-2003, 03:47 PM	#46
Oricon Ancalime Pile O'Bones Join Date: May 2003 Location: New York Posts: 14	Yep. That would have been Fëanor's mother- his fëa was basically too strong when he was born, and it killed her. Ouch.

06-06-2003, 12:07 AM	#48
Tinuviel of Denton Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Amid the hills and dales of the Shire... or not. Posts: 579	Um, I know that you've sort of gotten away from the Arwen/Luthien comparison, but anyway. Tolkien states somewhere (I think) that Luthien was the only elf whose fëa actually left the world. That was because she actually went directly to Mandos to make him give her back Beren and traded her immortality for another chance for Beren. Arwen wasn't mortal per say, she died in a similar fashion to Miriel, only of grief, rather than weariness. And if this is completely off, just ignore me.

06-06-2003, 08:59 AM	#49
Aredhel Idril Telcontar Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hanging on a sheer cliff with Maedhros Posts: 113	Yeah, but Miriel was a full elf, and Arwen was half-elven. She and her brothers had the privilege of choice. As for Miriel's body not decaying, it didn't because Este's maidens tended it. Says so in Silm [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ "I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me." Tai uzdaryk mane Tevyne savyje/kaip giesme gerkleje mirtis uzdaro/ ir kaip uzdaro vakara naktis/ o Tu man atsakai: as Tavo laisve

07-03-2003, 06:43 PM	#50
Morgoth the Great Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Thangorodrim Posts: 59	i heard that she just plodded(lovely word) off to Lorien and died. bit silly really, if u think about it __________________ Walking to Rivendell: 130 miles. tiring it is too precious....

07-06-2003, 05:07 AM	#51
Gryphon Hall Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Gryphon Hall Posts: 40	It seems a bit unfair, doesn't it, if Arwen decays and decomposes, but Aragorn back in Gondor is not. That doesn't mean that she wouldn't, though. __________________ qui moderatur sermones suos doctus et prudens est et pretiosi spiritus vir eruditus stultus quoque si tacuerit sapiens putabitur et si conpresserit labia sua intellegens Parabolæ Salomonis XVII:28

08-09-2003, 03:18 PM	#53
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	Well, you never know. Perhaps at Arwen's last moment, the shade of Aragorn appeared by her side, and sort of led her to the Halls of Men (an arbitrary name for the place where Men go when they die). Perhaps Tolkien would have wanted it that way, we'll never know. It's another one of those things that are comparable to the Witch-king "prophecy." On one hand, it could have been a moment of inspiration for Tolkien, or, he could have gotten a kick out of watching all of us sweat over little things like that. You take your pick. __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

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