Entwives

[Turin Turambar]

In the Fellowship of the Ring, Sam tells about his cousin seeing a walking elm tree. Do any of you think this could be an entwife? And do you think the Ents found the Entwives after the 3rd age?

[Arwen Imladris]

I think that it was an entwife. What do other people think?

[VanimaEdhel]

Yes, I thought that was the case as well.

Remember in the beginning stages of the journey when the hobbits of the forest seeming to be alive? Well, when I read that part for the second time, through the second reading, I thought that they were the entwives. Sadly, Mr. Tolkien did not tie up that mystery though. I would have loved to have seen the ents reunited with their wives. I would have cried, of course, but...it would have been tears of joy!

[Daniel Telcontar]

Maybe Tolkien intended the Ents to extinct. If he didn't, then they would have been reunited and´then I'm sure that they still watches the forest, dealing with those who harms it. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[Orald]

In Letter 144 Tolkien seems to think the entwives were pretty much gone for good:

I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429-3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin (vol. II p. 79 refers to it2). They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metal-workers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult – unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know.

Ents themselves would probably not become extinct because they are basically just trees. Treebeard says this in more than a few words when he tells Merry and Pippin that trees are always stirring, becoming entish and that many Ents become treeish. This explains the decreasing number of older Ents, and the trees in the Old Forest.

If you want to take a look at what Treebeard has to say I suggest you pick up a copy of TTT and read the chapter entitled 'Treebeard.'

[Elven-Maiden]

Treebeard says that the trees in the Old Forest were not Entwives. They might have been trees becoming "entish". Or they were trees going sour.

[lathspell]

Yes, I think it was an entwife as well, because it is so clearly said that he saw a 'walking tree'. Another reason is that Treebeard makes Merry and Pippin describe the Shire over and over and asks them if they had ever seen any Entwives there.

He made them describe the Shire and it's country over and over again. He said an odd thing about this point. 'You have never seen any, hm, any Ents round there, do you?' he asked. 'Well, not Ents, Entwives I should really say.'
'Entwives?' said Pippin. 'Are they like you at all?'
'Yes, hm, well no: I do not really know now,' said Treebeard thoughtfully. 'But they would like your country, so I just wondered.'

What I think most interesting in this phrase is the 'but they would like your country'-part. According to this and the things said above I think that it was an entwive, which Sam's cousin saw.

Durelen - great quote. But it seems that Tolkien himself wasn't quiet so sure about the entwives according to the last sentences. He speaks of some ideas about them, but in the end he says: 'I don't know'.

VanimaEdhel - Are you speaking of the Old Forest, about the trees 'being alive' out there. I think those were Huorns, because Old Man Willow was one himself and quiet a powerful one, controlling the others. (I believe I read this somewhere and some phrases in LotR made me think so as well).

greetings,
lathspell

[Burzdol]

Yes, I think that was an Entwife. But what happens after to them. I remember reading something or other by Tolkien that he was going to have new Ents come. Slowly though, then they would pair off with others.

~Burzdol~

If you ask me folks I think that Tolkien intended this to be a mystery. Not only to the world of his readers, but to himself. I'm sure that, yes, he knows exactly where they are, but in the books he drops hints for us to make our own assumptions. As we know Tolkien hated allegory and strived to never tie it into his work. So I think in the end, you just need to find the place for yourself. Hey, one of them might be in your own back yard...

[Inderjit Sanghera]

There were no ents/wives then. They only came into existence after Tolkien had re-started LoTr after they found Balin's tomb. Origianlly, the 'Gaint treebeard' was the original captor of Gandalf, not Saruman.

The tree-men can be equated wiht the ones briefly mentioned in the Tale of Earendil, BoLT 2.

[ March 10, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]