Cirdan questions

[Cazoz]

I feel like I've only been here a few days and am already starting too many topics, oh well.

I've always found Cirdan a very mysterious character. I haven't read many HoME and haven't read the Sil so I don't know as much about him as they is to know, thus I have a few questions.

1) He obviously ranked highly amongst the Elves, as he was given one of the Elven rings, which he passed on to Gandalf. Why did he rank so highly?

2) Would he have been returned the ring after they set sail?

3) How might the quest have gone if they'd taken the ring to the Grey Havens and given it to an Elf travelling to Valinor?

4) Was his sole purpose towards the end of the Third Age simply to bide his time and wait for the ringbearers to exit ME? Or was his job more involved in the general help of all Elves travelling west?

5) If his intention was to stay in ME until the end of the quest, how did he know it would be successful? Did he have prophetic powers?

6) Did he even go West? There were many Elves left in ME, such as Celeborn, the Mirkwood Elves and Elrond's sons who might have required his help, should they have eventually gone to ME.

7) Wouldn't he have got bloody bored?

Sorry for so many questions, and the silly last one, but I've always been really curious about him, and about how he's so important and reverred, and yet simultaneously so absent.

[Tirned Tinnu]

Finally! I found the quote. It's on page 319 of the appendixes...

At the Grey Havens dwelt Cirdan the Shipwright, and some say he dwells there still, until the last ship sets sail into the West. In the days of the Kings most of the High Elves that still lingered in Middle-earth dwelt with Cirdan or in the seaward lands of Lindon. If any now remain they are few.

[ September 23, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ]

[Arwen Imladris]

1) Because he was old? Respect for your elders?

2) he would not have needed the ring, he gave it freely to gandalf, I doubt he expected it back.

3) I don't think it would have changed that much, Gandalf had powers without the ring, it just made him more powerful.

4) I think that his job involved the general help of all Elves travelling west over the sea.

5) His intention was to wait for the last ship. He must have had prophetic powers as well because when Gandalf arived he gave him the ring saying that gandalf would have use of it. (sorry don't have exact quote)

6) thanks to Tirned Tinnu's quote, yes he did go west with the last ship

7) I don't think he would have gotten bored. He probebly had a lot of stuff to do, like building big ships. He was also often involved with the goings on in ME.

[Elrian]

From : http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

Dates: Uncertain. Possibly awoke at Cuiviénen, probably sailed into the West with the last ship some time in the Fourth Age
Race: Elves
Division: Teleri
Family: Not known. Possibly of the kin of Olwë.
Titles: The Shipwright
Pronunciation: keer'dan
Meaning: Literally 'ship-wright'


A lord of the Teleri in Middle-earth, Círdan was persuaded to remain in Beleriand with some of his people by Ossë when the other Teleri were taken into the West by Ulmo. Lord of the Falas during much of the First Age, he removed to the Isle of Balar after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. At the end of the First Age, with the destruction of Beleriand, he moved eastwards and founded Mithlond, the Grey Havens, on the Gulf of Lhûn.

He remained in Lindon throughout the Second and Third Ages. Throughout the Second Age, that land was under the direct rule of High King Gil-galad. At the time of the fall of Eregion, Celebrimbor sent two of the Three Rings north to the High King, and Gil-galad in turn passed one of these to Círdan; Narya, the Ring of Fire. At the end of the Second Age, Gil-galad fell in the War of the Last Alliance, leaving Lindon without a ruler. His natural heir would have been Elrond, who had long since removed to Imladris, and so Círdan took on the leadership of the Elves west of the Blue Mountains.

Círdan continued to maintain the havens at Mithlond throughout the Third Age and into the Fourth. When the Wizards arrived in Middle-earth, he perceived that Gandalf was the wisest of them, and gave him the Red Ring to bear in secret. He took an active part in the events of the Third Age, too; it was his mariners, for example, who sought to rescue Arvedui the last King of Arthedain. He was still the master of the Grey Havens at the end of the Age, when he saw the Ring-bearers' White Ship, that he had held in preparation over the long years, pass into the West.

[Orome]

Arwen, i think you misinterpreted number 3. i think it mean what would have happenen it the One Ring was sent over to valinor on a ship

[Voralphion]

For the answer the 3. At the council of Elrond, it is said that the one ring couldn't pass over the sea to valinor because they wouldn't accept it there, it belonged in middle earth. I also think that if it did indeed pass over the sea, it wouldn't have done any good because at the time Sauron's power was growing and would have continued to grow until the ring was destroyed. Of course the Valar probably could have destroyed it in Valinor but they wouldn't because they decided to leave Middle Earth to itself nd not intervene directly.

I think that any ship bearing the ring wouldn't have been able to find the straight road, e.g. enter into Valinor at all. It would travel without any hope of finding it. Much as would men if they attempted to find the way to Valinor. Just a little addition to the previous post...

I really miss more information on Círdan. He must be the oldest of the elves in the Lord of the Rings, so I think it's sad that he didn't play a bigger part. Isn't he also the only elf reported to have a beard?
I haven't read all HoME, so does anyone know if there might be some more information on him in any of those books? I'm also very fascinated by him so I'd love to know more...

Silje