Word Etymologies - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Joy · 08-12-2002, 10:18 PM

I am bringing this topic back up. I posted this a while back, but I now have some questions.

I ahve been re-reading Beowulf, The Battle of Maldon, the Poetic Edda, Voluspa. I noticed the word "Eorl" appearing a few times, though I forgot which story mentioned it.

Could anyone tell me what this Old English word meant? Also, since this was the name of the founding King of Rohan, what did his name mean? One more, did the Rohiric language come from OE?

PS. In just remembered that the name AElfwine is mentioned in The Battle of Maldon. This is also the name of the man who traveled to Tol Eressa in the Bool of Lost Tales.

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

Morgoth Bauglir · 08-12-2002, 10:55 PM

i know that it is mentioned somewhere in unfinished tales..... if i had the book i would help but i dont so sorry. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

well, i know for sire that it is one of the side notes, if that may help.

Joy · 08-12-2002, 10:59 PM

Thanks, I'll go look it up. I have UT on my bookcase.

[Edit]: page 325 (my Version of UT) end of the chapter on Cirion and Eorl - Footnote 6.

Quote:

It is an interesting fact, not refered to I believe in any of my father's writings, that the names of the early kings and princes of the Northmen and the Éothéod are Gothic in form, not Old English(OE)(Anglo-Saxon) as in the case of Léod, Eorl, ahnd the later Rohirrim. Vidugavia is Latinized in spelling, represinting Gothic Widugauja ('wood dweller'), a recorded Gothic name, and similarly Vidumavi Gothic Widumawi('wood maiden"). Marhwini and Marhari contian the Gothic wors marh ('horse"), corresponding to the OE mearh, plural mearas, the word used in LotR for the horse of Rhohan; wini "friend" corresponds to OE winë, seen in the names of several of the Kings of the Mark. Since, as is explained in Appedix F(II), the language of Rohan was "made to resemble ancient English," the names of the ancestors of the Rohirrim are cast into the forms of the earlest recorded Germanic language.

Second paragraph in footnote 36 - [qoute] Anglo-Saxon eorl in the name Eorl the Young is a wholy unrelated word.[/quote]

One more note - in the case of Ælfwinë, since this Rohiric is based on OE and ancient Germanic, this word then means "Elf-friend."

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

***Sharkû*** · 08-13-2002, 04:57 AM

Per the OED2 on CD:
"† 1. A man of noble rank, as distinguished from a ceorl, churl, or ordinary freeman. Only in OE.
† b. In OE. poetry used for: A warrior, a brave man, a man generally."
Word form was eorl up to the 4th century, later the still present earl.

And when Tolkien in App. F On Translation writes "The language of Rohan I have accordingly made to resemble ancient English", he means just that: basically, the nomenclature of Rohan and some other cases, such as the men of the Vale of Anduin, the case of orcs (which is still in translation related to the Elven stem *ruku), or some hobbit names, is indeed Old English / Anglo-Saxon, though the names and words are not necessarily in that form in which they are traditioned in the written corpus.

Joy · 08-13-2002, 08:47 PM

Thanks Sharku and Morgoth. I love doing language research. This is one of my favorite passtimes.

08-12-2002, 10:18 PM	#1
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Word Etymologies I am bringing this topic back up. I posted this a while back, but I now have some questions. I ahve been re-reading Beowulf, The Battle of Maldon, the Poetic Edda, Voluspa. I noticed the word "Eorl" appearing a few times, though I forgot which story mentioned it. Could anyone tell me what this Old English word meant? Also, since this was the name of the founding King of Rohan, what did his name mean? One more, did the Rohiric language come from OE? PS. In just remembered that the name AElfwine is mentioned in The Battle of Maldon. This is also the name of the man who traveled to Tol Eressa in the Bool of Lost Tales. [ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ] __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

08-13-2002, 08:47 PM	#5
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Thanks Sharku and Morgoth. I love doing language research. This is one of my favorite passtimes. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

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08-12-2002, 10:55 PM	#2
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	i know that it is mentioned somewhere in unfinished tales..... if i had the book i would help but i dont so sorry. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] well, i know for sire that it is one of the side notes, if that may help.

08-13-2002, 04:57 AM	#4
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	Per the OED2 on CD: "† 1. A man of noble rank, as distinguished from a ceorl, churl, or ordinary freeman. Only in OE. † b. In OE. poetry used for: A warrior, a brave man, a man generally." Word form was eorl up to the 4th century, later the still present earl. And when Tolkien in App. F On Translation writes "The language of Rohan I have accordingly made to resemble ancient English", he means just that: basically, the nomenclature of Rohan and some other cases, such as the men of the Vale of Anduin, the case of orcs (which is still in translation related to the Elven stem *ruku), or some hobbit names, is indeed Old English / Anglo-Saxon, though the names and words are not necessarily in that form in which they are traditioned in the written corpus.