the discord of Melkor - harmonius to Iluvatars theme ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

kingangmar · 08-01-2002, 02:24 PM

dark emotions are endemic to the comprehensive totality that the theme represents as that part of the creation that has free will and the mysterious aspect of the inconclusiveness of the music is enhanced by the aspect that perhaps even it's most destructive and discordant elements are not mearly blatant and tumultus but utterly fundemental to the the themes development , continuance and ultimatly it's conclussion cannot be acheived without the aspects of depravity, debauchment, dereliction and debasement especialy wherethose of high and mighty status are concerned i.e. Melkor

Galorme · 08-01-2002, 02:40 PM

Was that a topic for discusion? It seemed like a stand alone statement, that i fully agree with.

I will take it as that. Eru said in the Lost Tales that there was nothing that Melko[r] could do that did not have its ultimate source in Eru, as Morgoth came from Eru's thought. He said that all evil Melkor did served only to enhance the glory of Eru's works, and that knowing there was pain and suffering only made life sweeter. The sites the example of water, that only with the extremes of Melko could there be the beauty of Ice, Snow, Rain, Steam etc. I love that.

On a totally unconected subject does anyone know if there is a Redo command in the Post A Reply section? It seems that Undo cuts a large section of your text instead of the just the problematic word.

Feanaro · 08-01-2002, 02:43 PM

The Discord of Melkor--Harmonious to Iluvatar's theme?

Quote:

From Merriam-Webster's online dictionary: "Main Entry: 1dis·cord
Pronunciation: 'dis-"kord
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
1 a : lack of agreement or harmony (as between persons, things, or ideas) b : active quarreling or conflict resulting from discord among persons or factions : STRIFE
2 a (1) : a combination of musical sounds that strikes the ear harshly (2) : DISSONANCE b : a harsh or unpleasant sound"

Perhaps the people working on the canon should change the term.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Feanaro ]

Rimbaud · 08-01-2002, 02:44 PM

Yes, Tolkien firmly believed that the inclusion of the darker themes within the Music of the Ainur was not only necessary but fundamental to the creation of Arda. Following from Tolkien's belief that Arda Marred was the Perfect, the Discord in reality, is merely a Chord.

May I congratulate you on your mellifluous loquaciousness and indeed lexicographic fortitude, although I must confess such sesquipedalian convolutions required alert perusal.

Ruthwen · 08-01-2002, 04:28 PM

LOL, Stephanos.

As Galorme said, I think the disharmony was necessary to make the harmonious music seem even more beautiful.

kingangmar · 08-01-2002, 04:43 PM

I so appreciate the comments made on the statement the music seems to be the cu de gras of Tolkiens Mythos and so much can be said said of this one aspect of the mythology so crucial to tolkeins concept of the english mythos.... it's really overwhelming iv'e come to belive in it myself within my on reality in california america....someday mabey we all can wail and thrash bellow and chant recite and recant trill toggle silabate and sing bourne at last into the ancient west

Kuruharan · 08-01-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Following from Tolkien's belief that Arda Marred was the Perfect, the Discord in reality, is merely a Chord.

But if it's perfect already, what is the need to have The End and remake the world?

Or perhaps I misunderstood you?

08-01-2002, 02:24 PM	#1
kingangmar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: south lake tahoe CA Posts: 12	the discord of Melkor - harmonius to Iluvatars theme ? dark emotions are endemic to the comprehensive totality that the theme represents as that part of the creation that has free will and the mysterious aspect of the inconclusiveness of the music is enhanced by the aspect that perhaps even it's most destructive and discordant elements are not mearly blatant and tumultus but utterly fundemental to the the themes development , continuance and ultimatly it's conclussion cannot be acheived without the aspects of depravity, debauchment, dereliction and debasement especialy wherethose of high and mighty status are concerned i.e. Melkor

08-01-2002, 02:40 PM	#2
Galorme Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: London Posts: 337	Was that a topic for discusion? It seemed like a stand alone statement, that i fully agree with. I will take it as that. Eru said in the Lost Tales that there was nothing that Melko[r] could do that did not have its ultimate source in Eru, as Morgoth came from Eru's thought. He said that all evil Melkor did served only to enhance the glory of Eru's works, and that knowing there was pain and suffering only made life sweeter. The sites the example of water, that only with the extremes of Melko could there be the beauty of Ice, Snow, Rain, Steam etc. I love that. On a totally unconected subject does anyone know if there is a Redo command in the Post A Reply section? It seems that Undo cuts a large section of your text instead of the just the problematic word. __________________ Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! The day has come! Behold people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!

08-01-2002, 02:44 PM	#4
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	Yes, Tolkien firmly believed that the inclusion of the darker themes within the Music of the Ainur was not only necessary but fundamental to the creation of Arda. Following from Tolkien's belief that Arda Marred was the Perfect, the Discord in reality, is merely a Chord. May I congratulate you on your mellifluous loquaciousness and indeed lexicographic fortitude, although I must confess such sesquipedalian convolutions required alert perusal. __________________ And all the rest is literature

08-01-2002, 04:28 PM	#5
Ruthwen Animated Skeleton Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: England Posts: 40	LOL, Stephanos. As Galorme said, I think the disharmony was necessary to make the harmonious music seem even more beautiful. __________________ "Her name was Nenlauriel, but they called her Rûthwen, because her anger seemed ever constant and ever flowing from her grey eyes."

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08-01-2002, 04:43 PM	#6
kingangmar Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: south lake tahoe CA Posts: 12	I so appreciate the comments made on the statement the music seems to be the cu de gras of Tolkiens Mythos and so much can be said said of this one aspect of the mythology so crucial to tolkeins concept of the english mythos.... it's really overwhelming iv'e come to belive in it myself within my on reality in california america....someday mabey we all can wail and thrash bellow and chant recite and recant trill toggle silabate and sing bourne at last into the ancient west