Vanyar > Noldor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Iarhen · 02-28-2003, 03:08 PM

Im sorry, but I have to disagree with you in several points:

1. I can not tell whos the greatest elf tribe. Vanyer where the greates in arts. Noldor in crafts, etc. But you can not say that the Noldor were not as good as the Vanyar just because they followed the rules strictly. They loved and they felt more than the Vanyar did. Thats why they went to war. Morgoth had killed the High King of the Noldor. Morgoth had stolen their silmarils (very appreciated jewels after the darkening of Valinor). So? The Noldor, headless without thier King, went to war to avenge the death of their King and to recover what was theirs in the first place. If the Vanyar were so high in spiritual and intellectual terms, they would have sympathized with the Noldor and would have gone to ME with them to fight Morgoth.

If they are so good, and so benevolent, they must have felt an urge to help their Noldor brothers in disgrace.

But guess what? They DIDN'T!!!! They preffered to stay in Valinor, with the Valar, and save themselves the discomfort. Instead of helping those that were the same kind as them (the noldorin elves) they preffered to stay with gods. And thats a treason that even men knew and hated: thats why the Riders of Rohan helped Gondor. Because they wanted to help their brothers in disgrave before it was too late.

2. Vanyar came because the Valar ordered them to. They were the biggest part of the host of the Valar. But they DID NOT threw down Morgoth. It was the Valar who did it.

If the Vanyar had come, by themselves without no help from the Valar and facing the current disolation and destroying of the Noldor (who were slain), they would have faced the SAME disgrace the Noldor suffered. I would say that even greater, because they are not war people, they can not make their own weapons.

3. And third, possibly the Valar loved the Vanyar more. But I would dare to say that Eru, after men, loved the Noldor the most. Why? Because the Noldor showed something taht the Vanyar did not show: love and worry for their own, their people and the people of M.E. Eru loves more who love more. And in that field, some Noldor even dared to give up their eternal life for love. Something the Vanyar DID NOT DO!!!..

So, in my book and in Middle Earth history, and probably on Eru´s mind, the Noldor are the greatest.

02-28-2003, 03:08 PM	#36
Iarhen Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laurelindorenan Posts: 225	Im sorry, but I have to disagree with you in several points: 1. I can not tell whos the greatest elf tribe. Vanyer where the greates in arts. Noldor in crafts, etc. But you can not say that the Noldor were not as good as the Vanyar just because they followed the rules strictly. They loved and they felt more than the Vanyar did. Thats why they went to war. Morgoth had killed the High King of the Noldor. Morgoth had stolen their silmarils (very appreciated jewels after the darkening of Valinor). So? The Noldor, headless without thier King, went to war to avenge the death of their King and to recover what was theirs in the first place. If the Vanyar were so high in spiritual and intellectual terms, they would have sympathized with the Noldor and would have gone to ME with them to fight Morgoth. If they are so good, and so benevolent, they must have felt an urge to help their Noldor brothers in disgrace. But guess what? They DIDN'T!!!! They preffered to stay in Valinor, with the Valar, and save themselves the discomfort. Instead of helping those that were the same kind as them (the noldorin elves) they preffered to stay with gods. And thats a treason that even men knew and hated: thats why the Riders of Rohan helped Gondor. Because they wanted to help their brothers in disgrave before it was too late. 2. Vanyar came because the Valar ordered them to. They were the biggest part of the host of the Valar. But they DID NOT threw down Morgoth. It was the Valar who did it. If the Vanyar had come, by themselves without no help from the Valar and facing the current disolation and destroying of the Noldor (who were slain), they would have faced the SAME disgrace the Noldor suffered. I would say that even greater, because they are not war people, they can not make their own weapons. 3. And third, possibly the Valar loved the Vanyar more. But I would dare to say that Eru, after men, loved the Noldor the most. Why? Because the Noldor showed something taht the Vanyar did not show: love and worry for their own, their people and the people of M.E. Eru loves more who love more. And in that field, some Noldor even dared to give up their eternal life for love. Something the Vanyar DID NOT DO!!!.. So, in my book and in Middle Earth history, and probably on Eru´s mind, the Noldor are the greatest. __________________ "In place of a Dark Lord you will have a Queen! Not dark but beatiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair!" --- Galadriel when tempted by the One Ring.