Orcs, will, rings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tinman · 12-30-2011, 01:47 PM

Its hard to find active tolkien forums these days, but it looks like there're a few well learned tolkienologists here who can maybe help me with some questions. I've been reading up on orcs and free will. I recently ready this site (http://www.barrowdowns.com/articles_orcs.php) and found it pretty insightful, but left me with a few questions. I understood most of it, but, forgive my ignorance, some of it needs clarification for me.

1. It seems like all orcs were in some way dominated by melkor, if not sauron too. What then is the explanation for Sauruman's orcs, who appear to be bound to his will, or the orcs of Kazadum, who seem to be independent of both Sauruman and Sauron? How is it that these masters dominate the orcs they command? Is it sheer will power? Like mind control? It sounds like all orcs are bound to melkor, not sauron, but clearly sauron and sauruman had some control over their orcs. Was it in no way supernatural? No different than say Aragorn's control over his armies?.

2. Could an orc have claimed the ring? I know a wraith could not, because it was completely bound to sauron's will... but orcs seem to have some form of free will of their own. Is this why sauruman did not tell the orcs what he was looking for, just that he wanted the hobbit? Because he feared they would keep it for themselves? Was this a fear of Sauron's too?

3. Is it generally canonical that some orcs had miar spirits in them? Or is this fan speculation?

Thanks guys, look forward to the discussion.

12-30-2011, 01:47 PM	#1
Tinman Newly Deceased Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 2	Orcs, will, rings Its hard to find active tolkien forums these days, but it looks like there're a few well learned tolkienologists here who can maybe help me with some questions. I've been reading up on orcs and free will. I recently ready this site (http://www.barrowdowns.com/articles_orcs.php) and found it pretty insightful, but left me with a few questions. I understood most of it, but, forgive my ignorance, some of it needs clarification for me. 1. It seems like all orcs were in some way dominated by melkor, if not sauron too. What then is the explanation for Sauruman's orcs, who appear to be bound to his will, or the orcs of Kazadum, who seem to be independent of both Sauruman and Sauron? How is it that these masters dominate the orcs they command? Is it sheer will power? Like mind control? It sounds like all orcs are bound to melkor, not sauron, but clearly sauron and sauruman had some control over their orcs. Was it in no way supernatural? No different than say Aragorn's control over his armies?. 2. Could an orc have claimed the ring? I know a wraith could not, because it was completely bound to sauron's will... but orcs seem to have some form of free will of their own. Is this why sauruman did not tell the orcs what he was looking for, just that he wanted the hobbit? Because he feared they would keep it for themselves? Was this a fear of Sauron's too? 3. Is it generally canonical that some orcs had miar spirits in them? Or is this fan speculation? Thanks guys, look forward to the discussion.