Elven Rings in the 1st Age - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gorthaur the Cruel · 11-24-2009, 02:21 PM

If the the Three were made (just imagine without Sauron hijacking them or him making the One) during the 1st Age, the Elvish Kingdoms would have survived, or had a better chance of surviving, right? Though the world wasn't so weary or decayed then, the Three would've been a great help in resisting Morgoth's influence in Beleriand.

In terms of enhancing the natural powers of of its bearers, could we attribute Vilya for Elrond's commandment of the flood? And can we say the same of Nenya for Galadriel's shrouding of Eorl? Or were these ring-enhanced, pre-existing abilities of both bearers? For I've never seen such powers (high magic) from both during the 2nd Age or the 1st. 1st Age Elves (Sindar or Calaquendi) do not even have this kind of power (except for Luthien and maybe that Elf who lives in Nan Elmoth). The elves of Tol Sirion, for example, relied on Ulmo's power to defend them, yet if Elrond or some other high elf lord were there weilding Vilya, they could've been better protected without Ulmo's intervention.

I could see Morgoth having a very hard time capturing Gondoling with Turgon weilding Vilya and placing it under his protection, in addition to having powerful elf-lords at his disposal (Glorfindel and Ecthelion) and vigilance of the eagles. If Elrond (granted he is a decendant of Luthien) could summon a flood to defend Rivendell, how much more for a Calaquendi like Turgon? Maybe Turgon and Elrond are even since Elrond was never nurtured amidst the light of the Two Trees (but Turgon was), yet Elrond had a strain of Melian's powers (?). A fair trade-off for a Moriquendi right?

I could also see Finrod withstanding against Sauron in their duel if he had worn Narya, enhancing his still fresh-off-the-boat, two-tree-lit-aman-bred spiritual stature/power. Or if it hasn't come to that, I could see Nargothrond not falling against Glaurung if protected by Narya.

I don't see Nenya on anyone but Galadriel. Perhaps if she built her own kingdom at Tasarinan or Ossiriand, or if she took over a ruined Menegroth... with Nenya at work, it would've been restored, maintained, and defended.

Take these suppositions with all the seven sons of Feanor dead, of course, so as to rest the curse of Mandos, then I see the Elf kingdoms lasting or at least keeping the forces of Morgoth at bay (and the dominion of men postponed). Considering Morgoth had Balrogs and orcs and dragons... the heavy losses suffered the elves could have been assuaged had the Three been at work at the time. On second thought, I don't think they'd suffer "heavy" losses if the Three had been. What do y'all think?

11-24-2009, 02:21 PM	#1
Gorthaur the Cruel Wight Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mordor Posts: 150	Elven Rings in the 1st Age If the the Three were made (just imagine without Sauron hijacking them or him making the One) during the 1st Age, the Elvish Kingdoms would have survived, or had a better chance of surviving, right? Though the world wasn't so weary or decayed then, the Three would've been a great help in resisting Morgoth's influence in Beleriand. In terms of enhancing the natural powers of of its bearers, could we attribute Vilya for Elrond's commandment of the flood? And can we say the same of Nenya for Galadriel's shrouding of Eorl? Or were these ring-enhanced, pre-existing abilities of both bearers? For I've never seen such powers (high magic) from both during the 2nd Age or the 1st. 1st Age Elves (Sindar or Calaquendi) do not even have this kind of power (except for Luthien and maybe that Elf who lives in Nan Elmoth). The elves of Tol Sirion, for example, relied on Ulmo's power to defend them, yet if Elrond or some other high elf lord were there weilding Vilya, they could've been better protected without Ulmo's intervention. I could see Morgoth having a very hard time capturing Gondoling with Turgon weilding Vilya and placing it under his protection, in addition to having powerful elf-lords at his disposal (Glorfindel and Ecthelion) and vigilance of the eagles. If Elrond (granted he is a decendant of Luthien) could summon a flood to defend Rivendell, how much more for a Calaquendi like Turgon? Maybe Turgon and Elrond are even since Elrond was never nurtured amidst the light of the Two Trees (but Turgon was), yet Elrond had a strain of Melian's powers (?). A fair trade-off for a Moriquendi right? I could also see Finrod withstanding against Sauron in their duel if he had worn Narya, enhancing his still fresh-off-the-boat, two-tree-lit-aman-bred spiritual stature/power. Or if it hasn't come to that, I could see Nargothrond not falling against Glaurung if protected by Narya. I don't see Nenya on anyone but Galadriel. Perhaps if she built her own kingdom at Tasarinan or Ossiriand, or if she took over a ruined Menegroth... with Nenya at work, it would've been restored, maintained, and defended. Take these suppositions with all the seven sons of Feanor dead, of course, so as to rest the curse of Mandos, then I see the Elf kingdoms lasting or at least keeping the forces of Morgoth at bay (and the dominion of men postponed). Considering Morgoth had Balrogs and orcs and dragons... the heavy losses suffered the elves could have been assuaged had the Three been at work at the time. On second thought, I don't think they'd suffer "heavy" losses if the Three had been. What do y'all think? __________________ I am Annatar, the Lord of Gifts. Last edited by Gorthaur the Cruel; 11-24-2009 at 02:45 PM.