Gay subtext? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eve · 12-24-2001, 03:10 PM

Hi everyone, thought I'd pop in and see if anyone else has been wondering this as well as me. Personally, I reckon there's a fair bit of gay subtext in LOTR. Quite apart from the fact that women, and romances with them, are few and far between (Aragorn's relationship with Arwen must be the most bloodless and sketchy I've ever read), look at the way the males keep pairing up together. Legolas and Gimli (who mysteriously go from being enemies to firm friends during their rest break in Lorien), Merry and Pippin, and as for Frodo and Sam - has anyone else noticed their extraordinary devotion to each other, together with the colossal amount of hugging and kissing and hand-holding that goes on?

I usually think that I'm reading too much into it (queerspotting in literature is a hobby of mine, whether it's actually in the text or not! - and I still don't know how Lawrence got all that stuff in "Women in Love" past the censors), until I thought a bit more about the novel's roots. Epic, right? First obvious example of epic: the Iliad. Ah yes, Achilles and Patroclus, the most famous pair of Greek male lovers I can think of (Alexander the Great and his lifelong partner Hephaistion were always very keen on them, as I recall) spring to mind. Suddenly the whole silly idea seems a lot more plausible...thoughts, anyone?

By the way, before any homophobes jump down my throat, spare me, will you? I've just travelled all the way to Israel, only to be dumped by my boyfriend the day after he arrived when he found out that I'm bi (he'd obviously not listened, I told him months ago), and so I'm a bit short of patience on that one. If the idea upsets you, you daon't have to think about it - this is fiction, you know!

12-24-2001, 03:10 PM	#1
Eve Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 13	Gay subtext? Hi everyone, thought I'd pop in and see if anyone else has been wondering this as well as me. Personally, I reckon there's a fair bit of gay subtext in LOTR. Quite apart from the fact that women, and romances with them, are few and far between (Aragorn's relationship with Arwen must be the most bloodless and sketchy I've ever read), look at the way the males keep pairing up together. Legolas and Gimli (who mysteriously go from being enemies to firm friends during their rest break in Lorien), Merry and Pippin, and as for Frodo and Sam - has anyone else noticed their extraordinary devotion to each other, together with the colossal amount of hugging and kissing and hand-holding that goes on? I usually think that I'm reading too much into it (queerspotting in literature is a hobby of mine, whether it's actually in the text or not! - and I still don't know how Lawrence got all that stuff in "Women in Love" past the censors), until I thought a bit more about the novel's roots. Epic, right? First obvious example of epic: the Iliad. Ah yes, Achilles and Patroclus, the most famous pair of Greek male lovers I can think of (Alexander the Great and his lifelong partner Hephaistion were always very keen on them, as I recall) spring to mind. Suddenly the whole silly idea seems a lot more plausible...thoughts, anyone? By the way, before any homophobes jump down my throat, spare me, will you? I've just travelled all the way to Israel, only to be dumped by my boyfriend the day after he arrived when he found out that I'm bi (he'd obviously not listened, I told him months ago), and so I'm a bit short of patience on that one. If the idea upsets you, you daon't have to think about it - this is fiction, you know!