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05-29-2007, 05:28 PM | #1 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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THIS exists in M-E?
If I asked you if you could name me any technically advanced things in Middle-Earth, and you stopped and thought for a second, you will surely come upon something. And this is what I would like to debate in this thread. (I don't know if this has been debated before, it's quite hard to find something like that, but I think it wasn't.)
So, you can just stop for a few seconds and try to remember something from LotR which speaks about (or implies) existence of a thing we wouldn't expect in Middle-Earth from its "medieval" setting, but which, indeed, is there. We might start a discussion about it here - where do you think it came from, who invented it, for what purpose etc. However, I would like to start now with pointing out especially one thing, which is not shown explicitely in the text, it is a very very modern thing, a thing which would be probably among the last you would've expected in Middle-Earth. But the text, written by honorable Mr. Baggins himself, clearly indicates that such a thing did exist in Middle-Earth and was known to the Hobbits (which might come from the knowledge given by Elves or whoever else). And don't think I picked it up from the Hobbit or some other source which is, indeed, by many considered to be (for whatever reason) something of a less value or even "non-canonical". But the thing I would like to mention now does not allow any doubts about being in-canon, because it comes from the very heart of canon which no one (I hope) will put to doubts: Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring. And it is the first one I would like to discuss, because... it's really quite, you know, discussion-provoking. Now you ask what is this controversial thing, which, according to the Red Book of Westmarch, indeed existed in Middle-Earth? It is an express train. Hey, indeed! I am not joking. Fellowship of the Ring, chapter 1 "A Long Expected Party": "The dragon passed like an express train, turned a somersault, and burst over Bywater with a deafening explosion." It's undeniable. Something lead Frodo to liken the dragon (firework) to an express train. Right? This means Frodo must have known express trains. Right? Now we have to know only from where. It might be that he didn't have the experience with express trains himself: he might have just heard about them and found this an adequate thing to liken to the dragon (although, the fact that he uses it this way seems to imply that he had own experience with the effects an express train produces). Which, also, implies that there must have been quite well knowledge about the subject among the readers to whom the Red Book was intended (hobbits, mainly?), enough for the author to expect them that they will know what an express train is when they read it. Since we are not told anywhere else in the Red Book about express trains, we wouldn't expect the knowledge coming from here (though the RB was surely an ultimate source of knowledge at least among the earlier generations of post-war hobbits). So, the starting points on this subject are:
Now on to possible conclusions. Thus far, I'd like to present several theories, which may be later upgraded and to which I would like you to react, or even come up with different ones. Remember please, this is a serious conversation, really, and I want to come to a serious conclusion on the matter. So, be serious, so am I. Theory#1 There was a railway in the Shire. This theory has several pros, mainly:
Theory#2 There wasn't a railway in the Shire, but some other kin in contact with the hobbits (most logically the Blue Mountain Dwarves) possessed it. This theory is better in something than the first one, though in some other things it has critical flaws. Pros:
Theory#3 Frodo knew the train from his personal experience on the quest, or heard about it in lands far away. This theory is the best from the logical point of view in my opinion, though it still has some holes in it. Pros:
So, that's for the start - my three starting theories. I would like to hear if any of you support any of these theories, or add some own thoughts to them, or even have completely different theories about what it was like. I'm welcoming any constructive thoughts, or even just opinions on the matter.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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